And that changes what about my statement? I'm not interested in debating perception neither of us is going to change our minds about what classifies a gender or sex ect...


My only point in the discussion is simple property rights have to be preserved against further erosion or we risk a state powerful enough to strip anyone of all rights for any miniscule reason. We're already dangerously close to that point.

 

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'm an M1 Abrams main battle tank. You can tell by the size of my cannon.

 

And how quickly you lose your ammo load.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

And how quickly you lose your ammo load.

 

Yeah, but you should see the holes those Sabot rounds make.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yeah, but you should see the holes those Sabot rounds make.

You took out those Decepticons in Transformers? Cool.

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When did you decide to gender identify as a man?

I don't care about the sex/gender women's studies crap. Use the bathroom that matches your sex. Your doctor can tell you if it is that confusing. 

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Calling Deshawn Watson a future bust since 3/19/17. If I eat crow, I will keep this in here and proclaim JackCity a genius. 

Our resident republican snowflakes worrying about where people are peeing again?

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well .3% of the population is transgender.  Bathroom stalls have doors.  I don't see why its an issue for anyone in government.  is the world supposed to cater to 3 people out of 1000?  There are minorities and there are statistically irrelevant groups, we don't need to cater to everyone that is different especially when you consider transgenders accumulate to hardly anyone.  At some point you have to draw the line and say not everyone gets special treatment because they feel oppressed.  Not having a special bathroom is not being oppressed, especially when whatever bathroom you choose to use has the privacy of doors in the stalls

 

This. So much this. The fact that this is even an issue now is appalling. Nobody cares where you drain the hose or pop a squat. If your pluming dictates one of those basic motions then go to the appropriate toilet. .3% of the population is nothing. The chance of someone running into you that feels "awkward" is slim to none. Far bigger issues to worry about right now in this world over who can drop a deuce or take a leak in whichever public setting. Public bathrooms are disgusting 9 times out of 10 anyway. 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I don't understand how states can be tasked to pick and choose civil rights issues. 

 

I could see how it could be a states right issue, not on the basis of legality, but on the basis of practicality.   The issue is so new, and there is so much confusion as to the effects of any proposed "solution," I think I'd not mind if the states take a crack at it first, so we can see the actual effects of various remedies.  

 

Really, the issue is, is a man with lady parts a man or a woman.   Is a woman with man parts a woman or a man.   Personally, I don't know the answer.   It doesn't bother me which bathroom anyone uses, but in the last election, we saw what happens when we ignore the "flyover country," middle America that the people on both coasts fly over.  I think a decent respect for the concerns of conservatives is called for in this case, until we have some consensus as to what to do.  

 

And my advice to liberals and democrats is, if you want to get Trump re-elected, keep picking dumb fights that inflame the people in middle America. 

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I don't understand how states can be tasked to pick and choose civil rights issues. 

Dude... I don't even really wanna get involved in this because I have a very unpopular opinion for someone as socially liberal as I am....

 

But here's where I stand with it...

if you have a penis, use the mens

if you don't use the ladies...

and if you're not sure, use the handicap bathroom.

 

why does government NEED to get involved in everything?

Transgenders are really the smallest of minorities... we need to change and create special rules for them?

 

What's next... I mean really.... 

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Dude... I don't even really wanna get involved in this because I have a very unpopular opinion for someone as socially liberal as I am....

 

But here's where I stand with it...

if you have a penis, use the mens

if you don't use the ladies...

and if you're not sure, use the handicap bathroom.

 

why does government NEED to get involved in everything?

Transgenders are really the smallest of minorities... we need to change and create special rules for them?

 

What's next... I mean really.... 

 

The trouble with that solution is, men with lady parts still look like men, and women with men parts still look like women.   So you're setting up a rule where men with lady parts are going to go into the women's restroom, with all the attendant chaos that will cause among people who are sensitive to that sort of thing- a person who looks like a man going into the ladies' room.   Then to cops get called and they have to verify that that "guy" has a [BAD WORD REMOVED] lady part? 

 

How come you can say "penis" but I can't say "[BAD WORD REMOVED]"?   <<Another example of the hypersensitivity of the conservative class. 

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Dude... I don't even really wanna get involved in this because I have a very unpopular opinion for someone as socially liberal as I am....

 

But here's where I stand with it...

if you have a penis, use the mens

if you don't use the ladies...

and if you're not sure, use the handicap bathroom.

 

why does government NEED to get involved in everything?

Transgenders are really the smallest of minorities... we need to change and create special rules for them?

 

What's next... I mean really.... 

 

The problem is there was never really a problem. You or a woman/girl in your family may have well shared a public restroom with a transgendered person and never knew it. Unfortunately, zealots on both sides of the issue have made it a problem.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

The problem is there was never really a problem. You or a woman/girl in your family may have well shared a public restroom with a transgendered person and never knew it. Unfortunately, zealots on both sides of the issue have made it a problem.

Exactly, without a crusade there can be no crusaders.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Dude... I don't even really wanna get involved in this because I have a very unpopular opinion for someone as socially liberal as I am....

 

But here's where I stand with it...

if you have a penis, use the mens

if you don't use the ladies...

and if you're not sure, use the handicap bathroom.

 

why does government NEED to get involved in everything?

Transgenders are really the smallest of minorities... we need to change and create special rules for them?

 

What's next... I mean really.... 

They don't but people, and I mean in general not just transgenders, who feel oppressed for any reason have found that all they have to do is complain on social media and demand their "rights" be validated by the government stepping in and making a law. Politicians are going to do whatever will get them the vote whether they actually agree with it or not, so they'll introduce a bill and the process goes from there and next thing we know we are practically lawless because we're letting everyone do whatever they want and not a damn thing can be done about it because some court somewhere said so. 

 

As for the issue of civil liberties the OP stated, there is no basis as this is not a civil liberties issue. A civil liberty is defined as: basic rights and freedoms that are guaranteed -- either explicitly identified in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, or interpreted through the years by courts and lawmakers.

 

Civil liberties include:

-Freedom of speech
-The right to privacy
-The right to be free from unreasonable searches of your home
-The right to a fair court trial
-The right to marry
-The right to vote
 
In this case transgenders do not have the legal right (in a broad sense) to use a restroom per the gender they identify as, they are required to use the one according to what their DNA says they are. 

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They don't but people, and I mean in general not just transgenders, who feel oppressed for any reason have found that all they have to do is complain on social media and demand their "rights" be validated by the government stepping in and making a law. Politicians are going to do whatever will get them the vote whether they actually agree with it or not, so they'll introduce a bill and the process goes from there and next thing we know we are practically lawless because we're letting everyone do whatever they want and not a damn thing can be done about it because some court somewhere said so.


As for the issue of civil liberties the OP stated, there is no basis as this is not a civil liberties issue. A civil liberty is defined as: basic rights and freedoms that are guaranteed -- either explicitly identified in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, or interpreted through the years by courts and lawmakers.


Civil liberties include:

-Freedom of speech

-The right to privacy

-The right to be free from unreasonable searches of your home

-The right to a fair court trial

-The right to marry

-The right to vote


In this case transgenders do not have the legal right (in a broad sense) to use a restroom per the gender they identify as, they are required to use the one according to what their DNA says they are.

There is no right to vote or marry nor should there be.

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There is no right to vote or marry nor should there be.

 

True, but many don't understand that.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

There is no right to vote or marry nor should there be.

You're right. I was doing two things at once and missed that in my research.

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The problem is there was never really a problem. You or a woman/girl in your family may have well shared a public restroom with a transgendered person and never knew it. Unfortunately, zealots on both sides of the issue have made it a problem.

Exactly!! Where do they think these people have even using the bathroom up until now? They've been going about their business, doing their business in which ever bathroom fits them now and no one has been the wiser.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Just don't take a dump in the urinal!

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There is no right to vote or marry nor should there be.

 

 

True, but many don't understand that.

 

 By making these statements you are affirming that you have no rights unless they are specifically permitted by the government, exactly what they want you to think. Our society is built on the opposite principle, that you have EVERY right unless specifically forbidden by the government acting under the constraint of the people to protect the individual. The idea that the government can permit or forbid any person from exercising inherent rights, including who to marry or to participate in our democratic institutions without cause, simply because other people think you shouldn't, is the firmest endorsement for minimal and weakened oversight. I can't believe either of you would agree to such a thing.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Not at all otherwise you wouldn't have member exclusive clubs. As the law reads now yes you can not operate a business and discriminate based on religion color gender or ethnicity I'm not denying that. That however doesn't mean every category of minority is protected in the same manor. There's no federal legislation that prohibits a business from dictating access based on gender roles so long as they provide equal access to both genders. I can't have a male only bathroom and not offer a female only bathroom and vice versa.


Now I argue that the use of my private property shouldn't change my protection of private property. On what grounds should the state be able to dictate how private property is used by a private business. I'd argue so long as physical harm or someone else's property is not damaged individuals and associations must be allowed to use their private property however they want. If some hillbilly wants a whites only laundry mat let the free market run him out of business when a smarter entrapanure opens an inclusive laundry mat down the road.


Just because property is used for commerce we should force owners to forfeit their property rights.


Again property rights is where all other rights evolve from without you just have the state making up reasons for legislation at whim, that's how we ended up with the modern day police state.

 

You can argue until the day you die, but you'll never win. That train left the station and it ain't coming back.

 

I realize you'd like to return to Plessy v Ferguson (or pre-Magna Carta, lol), but modern readings of the Constitution and the Declaration make your claim null and void.

 

And to rant about forfeiting property rights or modern day police states just marginalizes you claims and makes you come across as a guy who should be living in Idaho without running water. Florida is a lot warmer.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.