While I agree with the premise that both of you are supporting, what do you make of signing players such as Chris Clemons and Red Bryant? While they were not the most productive players signed, I do feel like they contributed to the development of the Defensive Line as a unit.

 

Granted, I feel like they were probably outliers but there is something to be said for signing a Veteran Free Agent who can still produce but bring a sense of professionalism, work ethic, and "standard of performance" to a team.

I completely agree with you.

I think in terms of those players, what they brought was a steady veteran leadership, who, while they weren't "PRO BOWL" players, they certainly played pretty well. Meaning they were able to back up their leadership, with performance.

I think their signings had a lot to do with "knowing Gus's system" and adding what you alluded to a "veteran presence" to the youngest team in the league.

They brought an attitude that started at practice then carried over to games.

It is nice to have a couple of those guys.

 

As a former athlete myself, words cannot express how important a "mentality or attitude" is to a team. And to be honest, it is made within a group of players that spread to other players, not from the coaches.

But i digress lol

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The title of this thread leads me to believe that Khan should hire George Costanza.

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....
 

As a former athlete myself, words cannot express how important a "mentality or attitude" is to a team. And to be honest, it is made within a group of players that spread to other players, not from the coaches
.

But i digress lol

 

In my experience, coaches can develop it, but it is very very difficult to do without players who take it and run with it.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Not so much an "expanded" salary cap, per se. 

 

Starting from scratch, they naturally had more cap room than anyone else to sign free agents.  With the new stadium, abundance of club seats, etc., the Jaguars were amongst the league leaders in income at one point, so that helped too.

 

But I still maintain it wasn't the free agency excess that was the true cause of the Jaguars collapse, but draft day failures from 1995-1999 that led to the collapse of the team at that point.

 

The team missed on high round draft picks like 1995 2nd rounders RT Brian DeMarco  and LB Bryan Schwartz, and 3rd rounder S Chris Hudson.

 

The team missed on 1997 2nd round pick S Mike Logan, 3rd round pick LB James Hamilton.

 

All of these guys should have been hitting their primes in 1999-2000 and been around to provide veteran leadership in the early 2000s.

 

These misses led directly to free agency signings of T Leon Searcy, LB Lonnie Marts, Hardy Nickerson and Eddie Robinson, Bryce Paup and Carnell Lake.

 

Not only did they overpay to fill the holes created by those misses, but they created an older team on top of that.  Having to sign older players for veteran leadership increased the chances for FA misses.

 

This pattern of draft misses followed by FA signings continued through the Shack and Jack era (missed on Reggie Williams and Matt Jones to sign WR Jerry Porter), through the Gene Smith era (Missed on DEs Derrick Harvey and Quentin Groves to sign DE Aaron Kampman).  Draft misses have dictated the FA approach of Caldwell to a degree.

 

The moral of the story:  Hit on the draft picks, save in free agency and reduce the risk of a FA bust.

The Jags and Panthers were given extra draft picks and a full salary cap to spend on free agents.  The league learned their lesson because the next time they expanded, they didn't give Cleveland or Houston anything close to the advantages that they did to the class of '95. 

 

We're in agreement that the salary cap was badly mismanaged by Coughlin & Co. over the first several years as they had more misses than hits in the draft and in free agency. 

 

I think the lessons were learned, even though the characters running the show have changed completely from those days.  The mindset was already in place to manage the salary cap in a very controlled manner.  It'll be interesting to see how they go about spending all of this money they have to unload this off season.  My guess is that while there may be a good portion of it dedicated to free agency, that a pretty significant chunk will be used to extend the contracts for guys they've identified as foundational players they want to continue to build around.  I don't think they're going to go nuts in free agency, but they still need to spend that money. 

 

My guess is that they'll find ways to continue to hoard a portion of it using contractual language in any extensions they do allowing them to recoup some of the money using incentives not likely to be earned.  People who expect them to blow the bulk of that $60 million in free agency are bound to be disappointed in the reality, but if you look at the free agency market, the team may not be able to spend all that money.  Then what?  I'm sure they'll find a way to stay compliant while allowing them to quietly push forward whatever they can to future years. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The Jags and Panthers were given extra draft picks and a full salary cap to spend on free agents.  The league learned their lesson because the next time they expanded, they didn't give Cleveland or Houston anything close to the advantages that they did to the class of '95. 

 

We're in agreement that the salary cap was badly mismanaged by Coughlin & Co. over the first several years as they had more misses than hits in the draft and in free agency. 

 

I think the lessons were learned, even though the characters running the show have changed completely from those days.  The mindset was already in place to manage the salary cap in a very controlled manner.  It'll be interesting to see how they go about spending all of this money they have to unload this off season.  My guess is that while there may be a good portion of it dedicated to free agency, that a pretty significant chunk will be used to extend the contracts for guys they've identified as foundational players they want to continue to build around.  I don't think they're going to go nuts in free agency, but they still need to spend that money. 

 

My guess is that they'll find ways to continue to hoard a portion of it using contractual language in any extensions they do allowing them to recoup some of the money using incentives not likely to be earned.  People who expect them to blow the bulk of that $60 million in free agency are bound to be disappointed in the reality, but if you look at the free agency market, the team may not be able to spend all that money.  Then what?  I'm sure they'll find a way to stay compliant while allowing them to quietly push forward whatever they can to future years. 

 

 

That sounds like a sensible strategy.

 

The problem I see is that the roster is so devoid of young talent that would be deemed to be the nucleus that can be re-signed at this stage, there are few, if any players that could be re-signed under that paradigm.

 

Blackmon showed he could be star caliber, but he has been unable to be sober enough to stay on the field and not be suspended.  Branch has had moments, but is hardly a dominant guy.

 

Joeckel, Cyp and Gratz have been inconsistent.

 

Last year's rookies are still too early in their careers to be re-signed-see Russell Wilson.

 

The team expressed an interest in re-signing Alualu...but he can't possibly command a big contract that would make much of a dent in the money available.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

That sounds like a sensible strategy.

 

The problem I see is that the roster is so devoid of young talent that would be deemed to be the nucleus that can be re-signed at this stage, there are few, if any players that could be re-signed under that paradigm.

 

Blackmon showed he could be star caliber, but he has been unable to be sober enough to stay on the field and not be suspended.  Branch has had moments, but is hardly a dominant guy.

 

Joeckel, Cyp and Gratz have been inconsistent.

 

Last year's rookies are still too early in their careers to be re-signed-see Russell Wilson.

 

The team expressed an interest in re-signing Alualu...but he can't possibly command a big contract that would make much of a dent in the money available.

That's why I suggested they'd use the incentives not likely to be earned strategy in any new deals with current players.  If they don't hit the incentives, they forfeit whatever the bonus money is.  The team has used this in the past to push money forward, and there's no indication they wouldn't do that again if it looks like they'll have a tough time spending it all. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I'll b mad if Sean kahn doesn't sing all da free agentz

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Albert Haynesworth

 

In this league, most of the top $$ Free Agents lose motivation when they switch teams.

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Albert Haynesworth

 

In this league, most of the top $$ Free Agents lose motivation when they switch teams.

Not sure if that is fair.  I know some/many do.  Not sure if most do.

 

There have been guys like Reggie White, Deion Sanders, Ken Norton, Jr., Charles Woodson, Julius Peppers, Aqib Talib and Darelle Revis who have changed teams and performed well.

 

Others who haven't performed well may have flopped for reasons other than motivation.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I would like some great free agents but I don't want to just sign a bunch of big names because the even bigger ones refused to sign with us. We don't need to put a definite time table on bringing in X amount of veterans. I have no problem with us holding back a part of that 60 million if free agency doesn't work out the way we want it to.

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The title of this thread leads me to believe that Khan should hire George Costanza.

 

HA !!  That was good !

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HA !!  That was good !

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiwtXHPwGPE

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There are FA hits too. Nobody on this board wanted to see Michael Bennett in Jax more than me... He has helped Seattle a tad.


People are grossly underestimating the value of this free agent class. Most of the studs are under 26.


It's time to spend some money for some credible talent. If we lose we lose but you'll never see any benefits as a fan with most cap space. However a few star free agents may generate enough buzz to sell some tickets and get you to buy a jersey...

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There are FA hits too. Nobody on this board wanted to see Michael Bennett in Jax more than me... He has helped Seattle a tad.


People are grossly underestimating the value of this free agent class. Most of the studs are under 26.


It's time to spend some money for some credible talent. If we lose we lose but you'll never see any benefits as a fan with most cap space. However a few star free agents may generate enough buzz to sell some tickets and get you to buy a jersey...

And most of those studs won't come close to FA. What people seem to forget is that there's a reason their previous team didn't re-sign them. 

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Exactly.  Spending more than anyone else in NFL free agency doesn't give you the same return as it MIGHT in MLB.  Even the New York Yankees have had to adjust their spending habits over the past several years.  They're strapped with overpriced free agents they can't unload like A-Rod, and they've had their hands tied as far as really going out and spending the way they did a decade or more ago.  The reality is that the Yankees are the exact opposite of what this team needs to do.

 

4 of the playoff teams in the 2014 MLB playoffs (Oakland, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Baltimore) had payrolls that were half or less than the highest payroll in the league (Los Angeles).  The team that ultimately won the World Series had a payroll that was around $80 million less than the Dodgers $234 million payroll.  The Dodgers were washed out of the playoffs in the divisional round 3 games to 1 by a team that had a payroll less than half theirs (St. Louis).

 

Careless spending on free agents may get fans like you excited, but that strategy rarely delivers, especially in the salary cap era of the NFL.  Teams that do go that route have a tendency to flame out quickly if they see any success, and wind up in a cap mess that assures they're not going to turn things around quickly.  Snyderbrenner in Washington is a cautionary tale.  You'd think people would eventually figure it out.  Build through the draft and augment in free agency to fill specific needs.  Spend where you have to, and not just because the guy has a name certain fans recognize.  How many times does THIS franchise need to get burned before certain fans figure it out?

And rewind a couple years with the dodgers and you get this.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

And most of those studs won't come close to FA. What people seem to forget is that there's a reason their previous team didn't re-sign them.

It could be any number of reasons a team doesn't re-sign a player. Those reasons may or may not preclude him from helping this team.


There could be a coaching change and the player no longer fits the scheme.


The player could be deemed too expensive relative to the team's cap. That did not stop Revis from helping the Patriots.


Maybe the player is tired of the bad situation with the team and refuses to re-sign.


Maybe the team is tired of the player's attitude. It did not stop Green Bay from benefitting from Andre Rison or the Raiders from benefitting from any number of players.


Maybe the team decides to go younger at the position. But despite being replaced by a younger guy, Montana helped the Chiefs, Marshall Faulk helped the Rams, Drew Bree's helped the Saints, Kurt Warner helped the Cards, Anquan Bold in helped the Ravens, as did Daryl Smith, and Peyton Manning helped Denver.


No...success at a previous team does not guarantee success at a subsequent team. But a team failing to re-sign a player does not guarantee subsequent failure for that player, either.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!