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~~Kyle Eckstein~~ · 02-13-2015, 12:51 PM

I guess for the point I'm trying to make, let's look at it this way. Say we play New England in the AFC Championship game and they beat us in a close competitive game. Then, they go on and lose in the Super Bowl, and then over 4 months after the Super Bowl it is determined that they paid off the refs in the game against us and only won because they cheated and the NFL decides to void their win and declare us AFC champions. Would you be celebrating? Would you be bragging to everyone that we won the AFC championship? I sure hope not. It would be a paper championship. I mean it's not like we actually won on the field. It's not like we got to go on and play in the Super Bowl and try to win the big game. It's not like in our memories we look back and talk of how awesome of a win it is.

In the end, it is a bad situation for everyone.

HURRICANE!!! · 02-13-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:I guess for the point I'm trying to make, let's look at it this way. Say we play New England in the AFC Championship game and they beat us in a close competitive game. Then, they go on and lose in the Super Bowl, and then over 4 months after the Super Bowl it is determined that they paid off the refs in the game against us and only won because they cheated and the NFL decides to void their win and declare us AFC champions. Would you be celebrating? Would you be bragging to everyone that we won the AFC championship? I sure hope not. It would be a paper championship. I mean it's not like we actually won on the field. It's not like we got to go on and play in the Super Bowl and try to win the big game. It's not like in our memories we look back and talk of how awesome of a win it is.

In the end, it is a bad situation for everyone.

We get your point -- you can't actually erase the events from the past.

As a result, one must impose some type of penalty to reflect the team is not the US Champ. As such, they take away the trophy and remove them from the record books.   That's pretty much all you can do given the fact that you can't legally execute the head coach or wind the clock back and try to recreate history.

You want cheating ?   Head over to HS Football. The recruiting is terrible !!

UCF Knight · 02-17-2015, 10:12 AM

Quote:I guess for the point I'm trying to make, let's look at it this way. Say we play New England in the AFC Championship game and they beat us in a close competitive game. Then, they go on and lose in the Super Bowl, and then over 4 months after the Super Bowl it is determined that they paid off the refs in the game against us and only won because they cheated and the NFL decides to void their win and declare us AFC champions. Would you be celebrating? Would you be bragging to everyone that we won the AFC championship? I sure hope not. It would be a paper championship. I mean it's not like we actually won on the field. It's not like we got to go on and play in the Super Bowl and try to win the big game. It's not like in our memories we look back and talk of how awesome of a win it is.

In the end, it is a bad situation for everyone.

You probably should work on your examples. If they paid off the refs, then yes I would feel pretty justified and consider it a win. If you said they beat us 45-7 and the NFL gave us the win because the under inflated the balls by 2 psi, then it would be a different story.

Regardless, that team the used in the little league world series should never have been together. They never would have been in that spot if the kids weren't brought in from all over. That would be the whole point of having rules.....so if and when cheating happens, things are justified.

jag86fan · 02-17-2015, 02:01 PM

Quote:I guess for the point I'm trying to make, let's look at it this way. Say we play New England in the AFC Championship game and they beat us in a close competitive game. Then, they go on and lose in the Super Bowl, and then over 4 months after the Super Bowl it is determined that they paid off the refs in the game against us and only won because they cheated and the NFL decides to void their win and declare us AFC champions. Would you be celebrating? Would you be bragging to everyone that we won the AFC championship? I sure hope not. It would be a paper championship. I mean it's not like we actually won on the field. It's not like we got to go on and play in the Super Bowl and try to win the big game. It's not like in our memories we look back and talk of how awesome of a win it is.

In the end, it is a bad situation for everyone.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. The Jags win the AFC Championship in a close game and then lose the Super Bowl. The same scenario happens. Would you feel like the Jags actually deserve the AFC Championship? I wouldn't.

Of course, some of the lessons in Little League Baseball are supposed to include sportsmanship, fair play, and learning to be both a gracious winner and a gracious loser.

It seems many, many adults either never learned those lessons, or conveniently forgot them.

"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia."
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Charles Schultz
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"The harder I work, the luckier I get."
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T-Shirt at District Wrestling Meet.

UCF Knight · 02-17-2015, 02:22 PM

Quote:Let's put the shoe on the other foot. The Jags win the AFC Championship in a close game and then lose the Super Bowl. The same scenario happens. Would you feel like the Jags actually deserve the AFC Championship? I wouldn't.

Of course, some of the lessons in Little League Baseball are supposed to include sportsmanship, fair play, and learning to be both a gracious winner and a gracious loser.

It seems many, many adults either never learned those lessons, or conveniently forgot them.

I would be more embarrassed than i am right now if the Jaguars did that.

VisitingCobra · 02-20-2015, 01:54 AM

I really don't know anything about this, but one thing in sports that I hate more than anything is the rewriting of history. This probably won't be the last time I say this, but if you can rewrite history then what do any of the results matter?

TravC59 · 02-20-2015, 07:31 AM

Quote:I really don't know anything about this, but one thing in sports that I hate more than anything is the rewriting of history. This probably won't be the last time I say this, but if you can rewrite history then what do any of the results matter?

Are you saying that they are rewriting history by stripping the title, and what was done on the field?

TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

C'MON JAGS · 02-20-2015, 08:54 AM

Quote:I really don't know anything about this, but one thing in sports that I hate more than anything is the rewriting of history. This probably won't be the last time I say this, but if you can rewrite history then what do any of the results matter?

Are you saying that it's OK if a team cheats and wins and that there should be NO consequences for cheating?

Or that they should just let the cheater's win stand in the record books, but still punish the team, in another way, for their cheating ways?

Would it depend on WHAT they did, as far as the cheating goes? Is using ineligible players, although the correct age, a lesser way of cheating then using ineligible players because they are 2,3 or 4 years older then what is in the rules?

Do we really need a special set of "cheating rules" for teams that cheat?

I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

VisitingCobra · 02-20-2015, 11:15 AM

Quote:Are you saying that they are rewriting history by stripping the title, and what was done on the field?

Yes. If they didn't win, then what exactly were the people watching it happen watching?

Quote: Are you saying that it's OK if a team cheats and wins and that there should be NO consequences for cheating?

Or that they should just let the cheater's win stand in the record books, but still punish the team, in another way, for their cheating ways?

Would it depend on WHAT they did, as far as the cheating goes? Is using ineligible players, although the correct age, a lesser way of cheating then using ineligible players because they are 2,3 or 4 years older then what is in the rules?

Do we really need a special set of "cheating rules" for teams that cheat?

If you want there to be rules in place, how about actually enforce the rules before the fact? Sure it may be impossible to catch everything, but the games have been played. It's done. Teams won. Teams lost. I mostly watch professional sports, and I know this stuff is a different monster. And I'm not sure if I'm saying what they should or shouldn't do. Just from a "philosophical" standpoint, I don't like the concept.

TravC59 · 02-20-2015, 01:30 PM

Quote:Yes. If they didn't win, then what exactly were the people watching it happen watching?

Odds are pretty good if they were cheating to put together the team they did, then they wouldn't have been there in the first place. They were watching a team who was cheating win.

TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
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; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

C'MON JAGS · 02-20-2015, 04:53 PM

Quote:Yes. If they didn't win, then what exactly were the people watching it happen watching?

If you want there to be rules in place, how about actually enforce the rules before the fact? Sure it may be impossible to catch everything, but the games have been played. It's done. Teams won. Teams lost. I mostly watch professional sports, and I know this stuff is a different monster. And I'm not sure if I'm saying what they should or shouldn't do. Just from a "philosophical" standpoint, I don't like the concept.

In theory yeah, you would like any teams that are cheating to be caught BEFORE they play the game, so they can either be disqualified, or the appropriate action taken against them, and the cheaters would not have a chance to play in the game.

That's just not reality though. If they find out about the cheaters before the game, great, but teams that cheat try to hide their cheating ways and game officials can't go into a game expecting teams to cheat.

From what i have read, the cheating little league team submitted false paperwork (as to where the ineligible players lived) which is why it wasn't caught at first. Had they submitted the correct addresses of the ineligible players, it would have been caught BEFORE they even played a game.

I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

HURRICANE!!! · 02-20-2015, 05:13 PM

As 1 national radio talk show stated, kids know who lives in town. it's like when you go to school and ask your friends whether they made the all star team and then let them know some big guy that is 5 inches taller than everyone one else just showed up to play 1st base.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THEY WERE RATTED OUT BY ONE OF THE PARENTS OF A PLAYER THAT WAS LEFT OUT DUE TO THE CHEATING.

UCF Knight · 02-22-2015, 09:55 PM

Quote:As 1 national radio talk show stated, kids know who lives in town. it's like when you go to school and ask your friends whether they made the all star team and then let them know some big guy that is 5 inches taller than everyone one else just showed up to play 1st base.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THEY WERE RATTED OUT BY ONE OF THE PARENTS OF A PLAYER THAT WAS LEFT OUT DUE TO THE CHEATING.

There's no doubt thats probably what happened. That kid with the extra 5" was probably supposed to be on their team. Lol