JDR was surronded with more talent around him defensively and offensively. He inherited a decent core though thanks to Tom Coughlin. The only thing that really did him in was inconsistent QB play from Leftwich/Garrard and really bad draft choices by James Harris. We seemed to be looking for a WR or two for our QB's to throw it to year after year after year.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

We spent 5 years weakening the roster by trading away draft picks in pursuit of home runs in the draft and overspending on marginal FAs only to end up with a resounding 2-14 record and you want to say how the current regime is going about it is the long process????

 

The main reason the current process is taking as long as it is, is because they inherited a roster with very few quality players, no depth, and no quality developmental players  unceremoniously got rid of the last breath of quality veterans in Knighton, Smith, Mincey, Cox, Mathis et al on D; Monroe, MJD on O.  All of whom are major contributors in their current homes save for the unfortunate Cox and a worn out Drew.


 

The reality is you have no idea how long this process will actually take or how long the results will actually last, none of us do, because this is a novel idea they have implemented.

 

If this process turns this franchise into a relevant team for a decade, then no one will care that it sputtered the first two years.

 

The reality is 4-12, 3-13, with no signs of drastic improvement around the corner.  Gradual, sure, meaning perhaps a few more Ws in year 3.  I can't reasonably predict even a 0.5 output as of now.  Can you?  <span style="color:#000080;">That's where the patience that you speak of is tested. 
If we had seen more tangible glimpses of near-future success (not just a titan squeaker, Gman collapse, or even a Brown sleepwalk; all lowly squads at that) then the plan/coaching would be a non issue to me.  As Dew pointed, patience is a Jag fan trait.  We've been in this for years.  Expectedly, in about 5 months after FA and the draft, this tone would soften.  As of now, wez gunna diez.</span>

 

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

I maintain just like I did then he is a good coach he just didn't have the talent. I think people underestimate how much great coaches have good and great players. Its not a coincidence. He never had a collection of top fight players so he was never able to create a top flight team.


He had solid to good talent so he created a solid to good team. Yes there are some coaches who may be get more out of lesser players but that amount can and will be over come by teams with better talent.

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I still think it boils down to the QB position. It's not a coincidence when you see coaches like Belicheck, Harbaugh, and McCarthy in the play-offs every year. If you've got a QB. You've got a well above average shot at being a great football team. Even with a subpar running game and average defense, an elite QB will get you somewhere.

 

Carrol doesn't win without Wilson.

Harabugh doesn't win without Flacco.

Cowher/Tomlin don't win without Roethilsberger.

McCarthy doesn't win without Rodgers.

Belicheck doesn't win without Brady.

Pagano doesn't win without Luck.

Dungy/Fox doesn't win without Manning.

Payton doesn't win without Brees.

Coughlin doesn't win without Manning.

 

It's that simple. A great QB makes you look good. He can make everybody on offense look good. And I think the last two examples are great points. Payton/Brees & Coughlin/Manning. When those guys aren't on rhythm with the offense, and they're making mistakes with the football or just simply not having a good year. Bad things happen.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I like Gus more if that means anything.... But they both stink at head coaching. :yes:

 

I remember Guns-and-Hoses a few years back when everyone Boo'd DelRio when he was there with his son... Classy J'ville....

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I ain't no monkey... I'm an ape.

I like Jack more than Gus to be completely honest. Jack was more focused, intense, and he would show a bit more fire and anger. That's not a knock against Gus. Plenty of ways to coach. It's just about preference. Some guys like the Dungy/Landry soft spoken types. Some like the angry/in your face Parcell/Coughlin types. I like the angry/in your face coaches.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I like Jack more than Gus to be completely honest. Jack was more focused, intense, and he would show a bit more fire and anger. That's not a knock against Gus. Plenty of ways to coach. It's just about preference. Some guys like the Dungy/Landry soft spoken types. Some like the angry/in your face Parcell/Coughlin types. I like the angry/in your face coaches.

So far Del Rio is the better coach.  Just look at everything, and no one can dispute it.  Maybe Gus turns a corner next year; however, Del Rio never struggled as bad as Bradley has the first 2 years.  He had a rookie QB too. I agree with you on personality, as well.  I don't prefer his style (Bradley).

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JDR NEVER had a roster as bad or young as Gus did he? As far as fire and anger, how many division titles or SB did that win?

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/kkpugh726/albums

As team, as fan; scatterbrained, schizophrenic.  They freaking chose to make the roster the youngest.  Not due to cap casualty or structural limitations. 

 

So from hanging around .500 and breaking through now and again as you infuse youth to the vet core, they chose to hang aound 0.200 and become objects of ridicule as they stockpile youth.  The youth who would then grow and surpass the rest of the league.  Naturally.

 

JDR: 0 division titles, 0 SBs. 

 

But, we have a new coach and GM now who have a chance to win division titles and SBs for years to come. They are experimenting with a novel concept in a league of established tendencies.  But shhhh, don't tell anyone it's an experiment, amongst practically functioning teams.  Jacksonville has unlimited time and patience to offer.

 

DuvalJag n co, your steadfastness to shed light on our dear Jags - owners of the 32nd place recordwise the past 3 years - is admirable.  Honored to have read your insightful breakdown.

 

You've convinced me.  There are few structural flaws as evidenced by our output and prognosis from experts.  The system is in place.  The wins will come and they are going overwhelm us soon, without even much effort.  That's the reality-based, informed and practical outlook to take. 

 

Screw the present, we are about the future in Jacksonville.  And you know what's the best part?  The future doesn't ever have to get here, because, well, of course, it's the future.

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

Going to*

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

JDR was an average coach, but he brought several positive traits to the table.  Fire, balls, mental toughness just being a few.  He was the last coach to lead the Jaguars to a winning season, the last coach to get us into the playoffs, and the last coach to get us a playoff victory.  Most fans calling for JDR's head were calling for Coughlin's head at the end of his tenure for mostly the same reasons.

 

Coughlin earned 68 wins in 8 seasons

Del Rio earned 68 wins in 9 seasons

Tucker earned 2 wins in 5 games

Mularkey earned 2 wins in 1 season

Bradley earned 6 wins in 2 seasons

 

I was very critical of JDR in his final 2 years here, but back then I did not realize the huge hole Gene put you in while "acquiring" talent for you.  In hindsight, I think Jack did about as good as he could have with what he had.  Now that he has some HC experience under his belt, I would love to have him back here instead of what we have now.  I think Dave and Jack would work pretty well.

 

Of course it's not a realistic possibility, and I know that.  Like it or not, we're stuck with Gus for the next year or two, at which point he will be fired.  That's my prediction.

 

Should JDR get the Oakland HC job, I'd love to compare his first two seasons vs. Bradley's first two seasons.  Both were bottom feeder, relatively talentless clubs with incoming head coaches.  One could argue that JDR has HC experience on his side and the comparison can't be fair.  Point taken, but what rule says HC candidates needed to be wet behind the ears?  It shouldn't be an excuse, IMHO.  Or, we could just compare JDR's 2015 season as Oakland HC with Bradley's 2015 season as Jax HC.  Just something to think about.

 

 

Thanks to the OP for his insight and participation on the boards.  You seem like an articulate, intelligent, good Jags fan to me.

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"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan

I'd be shocked if Gus ever goes 12-4 in a year.

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Kodiak, you are awfully generous mate.  Many thanks.  I am on this tumultuous rotational phase, barely slept in days.  This is one of my respites. 

 

Every dog has his day.  Ours will come.  Go Jags.

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

As team, as fan; scatterbrained, schizophrenic.  They freaking chose to make the roster the youngest.  Not due to cap casualty or structural limitations. 

 

So from hanging around .500 and breaking through now and again as you infuse youth to the vet core, they chose to hang aound 0.200 and become objects of ridicule as they stockpile youth.  The youth who would then grow and surpass the rest of the league.  Naturally.

 

JDR: 0 division titles, 0 SBs. 

 

But, we have a new coach and GM now who have a chance to win division titles and SBs for years to come. They are experimenting with a novel concept in a league of established tendencies.  But shhhh, don't tell anyone it's an experiment, amongst practically functioning teams.  Jacksonville has unlimited time and patience to offer.

 

DuvalJag n co, your steadfastness to shed light on our dear Jags - owners of the 32nd place recordwise the past 3 years - is admirable.  Honored to have read your insightful breakdown.

 

You've convinced me.  There are few structural flaws as evidenced by our output and prognosis from experts.  The system is in place.  The wins will come and they are going overwhelm us soon, without even much effort.  That's the reality-based, informed and practical outlook to take. 

 

Screw the present, we are about the future in Jacksonville.  And you know what's the best part?  The future doesn't ever have to get here, because, well, of course, it's the future.

 

As team, as fan; scatterbrained, schizophrenic.  They freaking chose to make the roster the youngest.  Not due to cap casualty or structural limitations. 

 

So from hanging around .500 and breaking through now and again as you infuse youth to the vet core, they chose to hang aound 0.200 and become objects of ridicule as they stockpile youth.  The youth who would then grow and surpass the rest of the league.  Naturally.

 

JDR: 0 division titles, 0 SBs. 

 

But, we have a new coach and GM now who have a chance to win division titles and SBs for years to come. They are experimenting with a novel concept in a league of established tendencies.  But shhhh, don't tell anyone it's an experiment, amongst practically functioning teams.  Jacksonville has unlimited time and patience to offer.

 

DuvalJag n co, your steadfastness to shed light on our dear Jags - owners of the 32nd place recordwise the past 3 years - is admirable.  Honored to have read your insightful breakdown.

 

You've convinced me.  There are few structural flaws as evidenced by our output and prognosis from experts.  The system is in place.  The wins will come and they are going overwhelm us soon, without even much effort.  That's the reality-based, informed and practical outlook to take. 

 

Screw the present, we are about the future in Jacksonville.  And you know what's the best part?  The future doesn't ever have to get here, because, well, of course, it's the future.

I think someone who lists MJD and Cox as quality players and who doesn't realize Marks and Clemmons were actually upgrades over Knighton and Mincey would explain why they have this scatterbrained perception.

 

It's easy to get thrown for a loop by your own ignorance.

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I think someone who lists MJD and Cox as quality players and who doesn't realize Marks and Clemmons were actually upgrades over Knighton and Mincey would explain why they have this scatterbrained perception.

 

It's easy to get thrown for a loop by your own ignorance.

 

Now I know you are just needling for responses.  Regarding the quality of Maurice Jones Drew: Certainly the tires got worn out before he left JVille, as stated, thanks to carrying the team on his back for much of his career post Fred.  He truly anchored JDR's offenses.

 

Cox was considered approaching elite in the peak of his Jags tenure, if I recall.  Not my view, but the consensus, then it went unfortunately awry, as stated.  You don't remember the praises heaped on Derek Cox? 

 

I consider Marks and Clemmons upgrades to Knighton and Mincey as well but I'm not so sure it's a 'universal' belief especially the DTs.  How did you discern that I didn't realize that?  Take heed in your inferences mate.  I said they were quality veterans who were not retained.  They are and weren't.  Plus, they could have brought in some the new vets in as additons, not replacements.  For instance, Marks + Knighton > Marks + Miller etc.  Signifying less overhaul (more continuity) and perhaps a better overall team.  Again, just purely speculation.

 

But as said, I have seen the light now mate.  We have to be blindly and inaudibly patient as we conduct this novel experiment with NO timeline.  It's a practical, realistic approach.  No questions should be asked, doubt should not creep in.  We are future bound.


 

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.