You base your opinions off of a whopping 20 games? Who do you consider to be elite coaches so I can gain some perspective on your opinions of Bradley's ceiling.

 

What were your opinions on Chip Kelly after a season? Nick Saban? Spurrier?

 

It's not hard to tell when you start paying attention.

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I'd consider Coughlin great. He made the Jaguars successful as a GM and coach without having an elite QB, and he won SBs with the Giants without an elite QB, too. Against Brady, no less.


Coughlin is definitely an elite, and I already talked about him earlier in this thread if you were bothering to read what I've posted.


Same with Parcells.


They showed they were great by showing they could be successful at multiple stops and even without elite QBs.

But again those same coaches were not winning super bowls in their first 20 games. How did you came to you conclusion of how great they were? Was it in the midst of their first 20 games or did you look back over their whole career and make this distinction?

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Bill Belichik @ Cleveland is a prime example of a coach that sucked without a great QB

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But again those same coaches were not winning super bowls in their first 20 games. How did you came to you conclusion of how great they were? Was it in the midst of their first 20 games or did you look back over their whole career and make this distinction?

 

Sometimes all you can tell after 20 games is that a guy hasn't shown he's not elite yet.

 

Then sometimes you can tell a guy has shown he's definitely not elite, like Gus has. Historically bad play over 20 games is a pretty good indication that you've got a "run of the mill at best" guy at head coach.

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Don Shula did not innovate anything.


Was he not great?

Apparently not because he didn't invent blocking or the shotgun formation.

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I would be interested in crunching the numbers before and after Andy Reid in Kansas City.

 

Regards....................the Chiefjag

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.... let's not discount the extreme value of a good OC and DC.   When Dick Labeau left the Steelers (for the Bungles), they became a bad defense under Cowher and new DC Tim Lewis.

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.... let's not discount the extreme value of a good OC and DC. When Dick Labeau left the Steelers (for the Bungles), they became a bad defense under Cowher and new DC Tim Lewis.

Under this rubric I have no idea how to grade Labeau. Dude created the zone blitz scheme but sucked as a head coach.

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.... let's not discount the extreme value of a good OC and DC.   When Dick Labeau left the Steelers (for the Bungles), they became a bad defense under Cowher and new DC Tim Lewis.

 

This^


 

A head coach does not run the offense and defense. He chooses the right assistants to do that. Is Babich really the right guy for DC? His track record in Chicago along with his historically bad defense here makes me say no. But if the problem is Babich, it's Gus' fault for hiring him.


 

Same with the OL. Could better OL coaching have resulted in a better OL? Maybe the players are the problem, but 
Joeckel was the second pick in the 2013 draft. He may have missed most of a season, but he could still receive coaching during that time. If it's a coaching problem then the buck stops with Gus, otherwise, Caldwell. In either case the Jags appear to have made another big mistake at the top.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Under this rubric I have no idea how to grade Labeau. Dude created the zone blitz scheme but sucked as a head coach.

 

Great DC, terrible HC. He's far from the first Peter Principle failure.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I think an NFL team has way too many moving pieces to make any of these comparisons valid.

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Joking aside, I think we can all expect to see the defense improve now that we can actually get 1st downs.   I personally hold Henne "partly" responsible for the 451 yards per game.

 

Just seeing the stats of 451 yards per game a few words down from Henne's name just doesn't look right to me.

 

It just doesn't.

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

We are less then one and a half years into rebuilding a team that had indisputably the worst talent of any NFL team! I don't think anyone believed it would take less then three years of drafting to field a competitive football team. It is sad to see so many posters evaluating the drafting and coaching after 20 games! Has Gus made some mistakes yes, just like rookie players rookie coaches will make mistakes and if they are good coaches learn from them. Lets wait until the third year to start evaluating the rebuild and coaches.

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We are less then one and a half years into rebuilding a team that had indisputably the worst talent of any NFL team! I don't think anyone believed it would take less then three years of drafting to field a competitive football team. It is sad to see so many posters evaluating the drafting and coaching after 20 games! Has Gus made some mistakes yes, just like rookie players rookie coaches will make mistakes and if they are good coaches learn from them. Lets wait until the third year to start evaluating the rebuild and coaches.

 

Why?  Who says a fan can't give opinions about what we've seen so far?  

 

Of the 5 pages on this thread and the numerous pages regarding the coaching on other threads on this MB, not one member of this board has called for Gus Bradley's head.  

 

So all those that feel the need to defend the coaching staff are over-reacting to the natural want of every fan to talk about the good AND the bad of the team they follow.  There's more bad right now then good, so let's not all freak out that an 0-4 team has fans that are questioning the things that concern them.

 

And let me remind everyone here that the posters that are being critical are fans of this team.  The critiques so far are not unwarranted or over the top.  It's just fans talking about their favorite team.  

 

There's no need to circle the wagons around the coaching staff yet.  There's no need for those who aren't worried about the coaching or other aspects of this team to get defensive and try to self moderate those that are saying things that may be considered negative.  Again, it's not like everything is crimson and clovers as of right now.  And again, there has not been a single post I've read from any member of this MB that has been calling for the coaching staff's ouster...

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We are less then one and a half years into rebuilding a team that had indisputably the worst talent of any NFL team! 

 

I dispute that. Oakland had worse talent, and no cap room.


 

Caldwell could have kept Knighton. He could have kept Daryl Smith. He could have kept Lowery, who was better than the dismal wreck of free safeties we currently have.


 

Awash with cap space, Caldwell had the opportunity to choose from among 7 very good RTs in free agency last year, and chose instead to draft Joeckel, and then dump Monroe, one of the few good young players left on the team. While Pasztor looked good last year the jury is still out on him (Bradfield looked OK last year too, this year he was terrible). The talent in 2013 was bad, but some of that was by choice.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Apparently not because he didn't invent blocking or the shotgun formation.

or the whole west coast offense system

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We are less then one and a half years into rebuilding a team that had indisputably the worst talent of any NFL team! I don't think anyone believed it would take less then three years of drafting to field a competitive football team. It is sad to see so many posters evaluating the drafting and coaching after 20 games! Has Gus made some mistakes yes, just like rookie players rookie coaches will make mistakes and if they are good coaches learn from them. Lets wait until the third year to start evaluating the rebuild and coaches.

 

Um....if it takes 3 freaking years to get a "competitive" football team, that's unexcusable.  Maybe 3 years to get a team that will compete for a .500 record, but just to be competitive....we should be that now.  I'm not talking competitive where we should be .500, I'm talking about competitive in that we shouldn't be blown out every game.

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One of these years.............

Um....if it takes 3 freaking years to get a "competitive" football team, that's unexcusable.  Maybe 3 years to get a team that will compete for a .500 record, but just to be competitive....we should be that now.  I'm not talking competitive where we should be .500, I'm talking about competitive in that we shouldn't be blown out every game.

 

No, obviously it's way too much to expect that the team just not be historically bad. I mean, in all of the history of the NFL this team must have BY FAR the worst roster ever. That's how the argument goes, right?

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How many games and off seasons do we need to put somewhat a competitive team on the field?

 

Gus had last season in which he won 4 games and should have carried that success over to this seasons training camp and on the field now. Do we need to blow this season and the next to have hope on getting play makers in the draft. Sorry am tired of being the laughing stock of the NFL.

 

Why does it take our HC a whole season to put a competitive team on the field. Last season we won 4 games all at the last games of the season. Now we had a draft and we still are waiting something to happen. We need a head coach that can put a team on the field right now, kick some behinds and start earning respect and maybe play a whole game, while keeping it close and winnable. I would like to see 7-9 or 8-8, but all I see now is another season that is looking more like 3-13 maybe.

 

This Sunday we are going against a team that can be beat. We can either play this close maybe win, or the team can watch their fans leave during the 3rd quarter looking at another blowout. If we lose this game by double digits ( DD) then its really time to start looking at firing our HC and or his staff.

 

Go Jags ! :thanks:

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How many games and off seasons do we need to put somewhat a competitive team on the field?


Gus had last season in which he won 4 games and should have carried that success over to this seasons training camp and on the field now. Do we need to blow this season and the next to have hope on getting play makers in the draft. Sorry am tired of being the laughing stock of the NFL.


Why does it take our HC a whole season to put a competitive team on the field. Last season we won 4 games all at the last games of the season. Now we had a draft and we still are waiting something to happen. We need a head coach that can put a team on the field right now, kick some behinds and start earning respect and maybe play a whole game, while keeping it close and winnable. I would like to see 7-9 or 8-8, but all I see now is another season that is looking more like 3-13 maybe.


This Sunday we are going against a team that can be beat. We can either play this close maybe win, or the team can watch their fans leave during the 3rd quarter looking at another blowout. If we lose this game by double digits ( DD) then its really time to start looking at firing our HC and or his staff.


Go Jags ! :thanks:

The problem is any coach and gm can put together 9-10 win season by signing free agents and drafting a certain way and certain guys. The problem with that is its not sustainable. Gutting the roster then building through the draft and youth takes time but it eventually pays off.


Yes it's does suck and it is not fair for us as fans to keep going through this but I can guarentee trying to move on from a guy after 20 games will make the stiutation worse.


Do you think the raiders will ever be competetive because that's what they do. You have to create stability and when starting from scratch it will be pretty ugly. But the hope is by doing this with young guys they improve over time instead of with older guys who have no upside left in them.

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