I use the terms left-wing and right-wing because the dems and repubs don't really represent a full spectrum any longer. They're both pretty well inhabiting only from the center and rightward.

 

Every time you "reduce the size of government" what you're actually doing is handing the authority of that segment of government to another body, and likely one that you have no actual say in, regardless of how you might imagine your immense individual "free market" power. (lol)

 

And you think you CAN control government?

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And you think you CAN control government?

 

I have much more influence over government than I do over Comcast or AT&T.

 

Seriously, though, if you want less government why don't you go live in Somalia. There's no government there that's going to get in the way of your liberty.

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I have much more influence over government than I do over Comcast or AT&T.

 

Seriously, though, if you want less government why don't you go live in Somalia. There's no government there that's going to get in the way of your liberty.

 

The same reason you don't move to China where there's more government.

 

I'm American and I will continue to fight to limit what I see as the greatest threat to my nation, government.

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You're mistaking political leaning with governmental method.

 

All parties are by their nature authoritarian because that's what government is, authority.

 

You really need to make your choices on what you want authority to focus on, not whether you think there should be authority, because you don't have a choice there.

 

So you can vote left-wing which tries to make sure people get as even a start in life as possible and a safety net to allow people to take risks in life like starting a business.

 

Or you can vote right-wing which tries to make sure that if you're born on the bottom you stay there and if you dare to take a risk in life that doesn't work out welcome to poverty.

 

Basing your vote on the misguided idea that any party will relinquish their authority is idiocy, and even if they did abolish governmental authority all that would happen is another party would step in to assume the control of that power vacuum, and chances are it wouldn't be an improvement.

 

This is great, so you're telling my the left-wing makes it easier for you to start a business? I'm betting you've never had to pay taxes as an employer.....

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This is great, so you're telling my the left-wing makes it easier for you to start a business? I'm betting you've never had to pay taxes as an employer.....

 

It's amazing, as if you think paying taxes somehow makes you against them.

 

Yes, the left wing does make it easier, too bad we don't have a left wing around anymore.

 

The left wing understood antitrust and how dangerous it is to have megacorporations taking over everything the way Walmart and Comcast have.

 

The left wing understood that wealth grows from the middle class out and that education is key to a wealthy nation, that's why 50 years ago you could get a world class public university education in the USA for nothing or almost nothing.

 

The left wing understood that providing important government services and infrastructure make it possible for business to even operate in a country. Without electricity and roads who is going to put up a store or factory anywhere or go shopping?

 

The idea that without government the USA would have gotten this far is a work of fantasy, and it's not like we can't keep getting farther, but without proper regulation and infrastructure it won't happen.

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It's amazing, as if you think paying taxes somehow makes you against them.

 

Yes, the left wing does make it easier, too bad we don't have a left wing around anymore.

 

The left wing understood antitrust and how dangerous it is to have megacorporations taking over everything the way Walmart and Comcast have.

 

The left wing understood that wealth grows from the middle class out and that education is key to a wealthy nation, that's why 50 years ago you could get a world class public university education in the USA for nothing or almost nothing.

 

The left wing understood that providing important government services and infrastructure make it possible for business to even operate in a country. Without electricity and roads who is going to put up a store or factory anywhere or go shopping?

 

The idea that without government the USA would have gotten this far is a work of fantasy, and it's not like we can't keep getting farther, but without proper regulation and infrastructure it won't happen.

 

 

Keep beating down that strawman, he's trying to get up again!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's amazing, as if you think paying taxes somehow makes you against them.

 

Yes, the left wing does make it easier, too bad we don't have a left wing around anymore.

 

The left wing understood antitrust and how dangerous it is to have megacorporations taking over everything the way Walmart and Comcast have.

 

The left wing understood that wealth grows from the middle class out and that education is key to a wealthy nation, that's why 50 years ago you could get a world class public university education in the USA for nothing or almost nothing.

 

The left wing understood that providing important government services and infrastructure make it possible for business to even operate in a country. Without electricity and roads who is going to put up a store or factory anywhere or go shopping?

 

The idea that without government the USA would have gotten this far is a work of fantasy, and it's not like we can't keep getting farther, but without proper regulation and infrastructure it won't happen.

 

Because with government no one would build roads right?

 

You dodged my question have you ever paid taxes as an employer? Do you know anyone paying taxes as an employer? Ask them just how easy government makes it on the small business you claim the left wing helps so much.

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Because with government no one would build roads right?

 

You dodged my question have you ever paid taxes as an employer? Do you know anyone paying taxes as an employer? Ask them just how easy government makes it on the small business you claim the left wing helps so much.

 

With government no one would build roads?

 

I imagine there would be some, they wouldn't be of high quality, and they wouldn't be a strong investment for most people.

 

As for your question, I'm not interested in answering your personal questions, the very idea that you think it would matter which way I answered is why you're so very misguided.

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With government no one would build roads?

 

I imagine there would be some, they wouldn't be of high quality, and they wouldn't be a strong investment for most people.

 

As for your question, I'm not interested in answering your personal questions, the very idea that you think it would matter which way I answered is why you're so very misguided.

 

So you're answer is "No Eric, I've never been in that position and I'm speaking from my imagination not my experiences."

 

Just like most liberals.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

So you're answer is "No Eric, I've never been in that position and I'm speaking from my imagination not my experiences."

 

Just like most liberals.

 

I'd certainly not expect any great amount of introspection from you.

 

If I had said I was the owner of a business you'd just accuse me of lying anyway.

 

Now that you've accused me of being unfit to comment on business taxes maybe you can tell me about the grand interstate highway system we'd have if private builders were in charge of building roads.

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I'd certainly not expect any great amount of introspection from you.

 

If I had said I was the owner of a business you'd just accuse me of lying anyway.

 

Now that you've accused me of being unfit to comment on business taxes maybe you can tell me about the grand interstate highway system we'd have if private builders were in charge of building roads.

 

It's called toll roads and they'd cost a whole lot less than the TRILLIONS in taxes that have been paid for the "roads".

 

Every time you buy a tire, every time you buy gas you're paying taxes for the specific purpose of managing and building roads, to bad it's been paid for 10 times over but guess what those taxes ain't going away.

 

And I'm still waiting for your answer, do you know anyone or have you ever been in the position to see first hand the taxes associated with a small business. how about just the cost of the permits and regulations? Do you have ANY knowledge on the COST of owning or running a business because of government regulation?

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With government no one would build roads?

 

I imagine there would be some, they wouldn't be of high quality, and they wouldn't be a strong investment for most people.

 

As for your question, I'm not interested in answering your personal questions, the very idea that you think it would matter which way I answered is why you're so very misguided.

 

why wouldn't they be of "high quality" does it profit a company building roads to build crappy roads? Will they get more contracts to build more roads with quality like that?

 

Private companies would have MORE of an incentive to build good roads than government, what does government fear by building poor roads, you'll buy less gas?

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It's called toll roads and they'd cost a whole lot less than the TRILLIONS in taxes that have been paid for the "roads".

 

Every time you buy a tire, every time you buy gas you're paying taxes for the specific purpose of managing and building roads, to bad it's been paid for 10 times over but guess what those taxes ain't going away.

 

And I'm still waiting for your answer, do you know anyone or have you ever been in the position to see first hand the taxes associated with a small business. how about just the cost of the permits and regulations? Do you have ANY knowledge on the COST of owning or running a business because of government regulation?

 

Why would you build long far reaching toll roads when there are hardly any cars and anyone can just go on your road without paying?

 

So would the government provide the police to make sure they get paid their tolls or would they be willing to invest for that, too?

 

And why keep the roads high quality? It costs A LOT of money to build a road to start with, why maintain it when you can just keep making money off of it until it just falls apart? It's not like everyone around can afford to buy a road, and why would another rich person start building a road when you could price war them out of business and fix yours up temporarily?

 

See, you don't even understand the history of our own nation. Of course you have no clue about how things would be if we went back to late 19th century style federal power.

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I'd certainly not expect any great amount of introspection from you.

 

If I had said I was the owner of a business you'd just accuse me of lying anyway.

 

Now that you've accused me of being unfit to comment on business taxes maybe you can tell me about the grand interstate highway system we'd have if private builders were in charge of building roads.

 

Oh gosh, you pulled out an actual legitimate function of the federal government. Aren't you special! Why don't we talk about that wonderful Military next?

 

Or we could talk about illegitimate actors of the federal government like the D of Ed, the DOE, the ATF, the NLRB, NEA, or any other of the hundreds of unconstitutional alphabet soup money pits the almighty legislature decided we needed to tell us how to live.

 

Nah, we need that trillions of dollars worth of government to make sure we all fall in line with the central planner's dreams for a uniform society of drones.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

This country is turning more liberal period. Women are allowed to vote, blacks are allowed to own property, Social Security pays for elderly needs, same sex marriages are permitted in 19 states, 23 states permit medical marijuana use, 2 states permit recreational marijuana use, gambling is permitted in almost every state, national health care is law, alcohol sales are permitted in every state and the list goes on.

 

A hundred years ago none of that was legal.

 

Regards..................the Chiefjag

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Do they even exist within the GOP anymore? I see a rash of extremists winning smaller elections where I feel that more moderate candidates are what the party needs. How could any Republican president who was a moderate keep in check all of the far right elements of his/her party?

Really?  This is an exclusive to the republicans?  Let me guess....moderates are those who agree with democrats.  Everyone else is an extremist?

 

Sorry, but there needs to be differentiation between the parties, otherwise what's the point of having a 2 party (or more) system?  Right now you've got conservative republicans, RINOs, blue dog democrats, and socialists  The difference is that the socialists can bully the blue dogs into towing the party line.  The RINOs have this incessant need to get along by going along with democrats using the logic that if we concede to them on this issue, they'll return the favor down the road.  The problem is that never happens, and the howls of partisanship arise, usually from the left when they can't get republicans to agree with them. 

 

It's funny how you never hear anyone saying that maybe the democrats should come to the middle and try to work with the other side, but you hear it all the time from them about republicans.  The democrats are miles ahead of republicans in knowing who they are, and not deviating from their tired old playbook.  Unfortunately, there's a country club segment of the GOP that has decided to alienate those who hold more traditional conservative views in favor of retaining their power.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Really?  This is an exclusive to the republicans?  Let me guess....moderates are those who agree with democrats.  Everyone else is an extremist?

 

 

yep, that sounds about right....

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With government no one would build roads?

 

I imagine there would be some, they wouldn't be of high quality, and they wouldn't be a strong investment for most people.

 

As for your question, I'm not interested in answering your personal questions, the very idea that you think it would matter which way I answered is why you're so very misguided.

There's a lovely little tap dance to avoid answering the question.  You must be taking dance lessons from TMD.  The fact that you consider it a "personal question" and that your answer wouldn't matter because he's "misguided" is an admission in its own right.  It's okay.  You can admit you've never paid taxes as a small business owner. 

 

You're great at manufacturing distractions.  The interstate system?  Really?  Any other talking points you want to dredge up? 

 

As someone has already pointed out, there are areas of need for the federal government to intervene.  But, THIS federal government has intruded into our lives to such an extent now that their tentacles literally touch every aspect of our lives.  As has been proven time and time again, the government is the least effective, most inefficient method of doing anything.  All you need to do is spend a day at the DMV, or visit a social security office, or try to get healthcare benefits administered by the VA to get a good dose of just how laughably pathetic government is at distributing services, yet they now own 1/6 of the economy, and they have access to the most intimate details of every life out there.  What's worse is they are now able to use that data to make decisions on your behalf, including whether or not you should receive treatment for an illness. 

 

This country is getting dangerously close to a tipping point.  Those who are blissfully ignorant of this are going to really be shocked when it happens. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Really?  This is an exclusive to the republicans?  Let me guess....moderates are those who agree with democrats.  Everyone else is an extremist?

 

Sorry, but there needs to be differentiation between the parties, otherwise what's the point of having a 2 party (or more) system?  Right now you've got conservative republicans, RINOs, blue dog democrats, and socialists  The difference is that the socialists can bully the blue dogs into towing the party line.  The RINOs have this incessant need to get along by going along with democrats using the logic that if we concede to them on this issue, they'll return the favor down the road.  The problem is that never happens, and the howls of partisanship arise, usually from the left when they can't get republicans to agree with them. 

 

It's funny how you never hear anyone saying that maybe the democrats should come to the middle and try to work with the other side, but you hear it all the time from them about republicans.  The democrats are miles ahead of republicans in knowing who they are, and not deviating from their tired old playbook.  Unfortunately, there's a country club segment of the GOP that has decided to alienate those who hold more traditional conservative views in favor of retaining their power.

The Dems were a doormat for W for 8 years. When the GOP lost the WH, they declared jihad on Obama and made it their sole purpose to make him a one term president. And they weren't exactly discreet about it. I think he genuinely at one point wanted to work with Republicans. I know he met with a number of GOP economists early on. But Republicans IMO spent so much more effort trying to block or take down anything Obama did, they neglected to help solve a lot of the issues they griped about. Jobs was the #1 thing when Obama took office and the Republicans proposed zero jobs bills. It's easy to point fingers, but harder to come up with a solution. No sane president would refuse a good idea because he didn't come up with it. But it got into a urinating match on Capitol Hill which is why we had unnecessary shut downs. There may be some extreme elements on the left, but it seems (to me) the entire right shifted further to the right. The only notable Republican accomplishments (if you can call them that) was implementing laws that made them the morality police on abortion issues (Which has been a ridiculous political bargaining chip even though it has no right to be). The GOP used to be the party of ideas. What great idea did they try to push through that got blocked.. Before you answer, ask if there was some poison pill tied to the greater bill which invited it to be blocked. The two party system is broken and the only people whose voice counts are those who contribute to campaign funds. The days of politicians voting along the lines of their social conscience are gone. It's all about who is funneling cash to keep them in power. It's political theater. Obama is far from perfect, but he is is also far from the antichrist he has been made out to be. Some Dems will slowly distance themselves from him as some Republicans did W to avoid being associated with someone their rivals can tie them to in campaign ads. But name a president who inherited a worse situation? No. W isn't to blame for all of his shortcomings, but it cannot be ignored. Just as the most hostile and ineffective House in history cannot be overlooked when assigning blame. There is plenty to go around. And we the people should shoulder some blame too for allowing our political leaders to act like enormous children for so long. That is why I seek a more moderate Democrat and GOP party because allowing people in your party to say publicly some of the things that have gone unchecked for so long only promotes a division I am beyond sick of in this country.

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Only a chump boos the home team!

The Dems were a doormat for W for 8 years. When the GOP lost the WH, they declared jihad on Obama and made it their sole purpose to make him a one term president. And they weren't exactly discreet about it. I think he genuinely at one point wanted to work with Republicans. I know he met with a number of GOP economists early on. But Republicans IMO spent so much more effort trying to block or take down anything Obama did, they neglected to help solve a lot of the issues they griped about. Jobs was the #1 thing when Obama took office and the Republicans proposed zero jobs bills. It's easy to point fingers, but harder to come up with a solution. No sane president would refuse a good idea because he didn't come up with it. But it got into a urinating match on Capitol Hill which is why we had unnecessary shut downs. There may be some extreme elements on the left, but it seems (to me) the entire right shifted further to the right. The only notable Republican accomplishments (if you can call them that) was implementing laws that made them the morality police on abortion issues (Which has been a ridiculous political bargaining chip even though it has no right to be). The GOP used to be the party of ideas. What great idea did they try to push through that got blocked.. Before you answer, ask if there was some poison pill tied to the greater bill which invited it to be blocked. The two party system is broken and the only people whose voice counts are those who contribute to campaign funds. The days of politicians voting along the lines of their social conscience are gone. It's all about who is funneling cash to keep them in power. It's political theater. Obama is far from perfect, but he is is also far from the antichrist he has been made out to be. Some Dems will slowly distance themselves from him as some Republicans did W to avoid being associated with someone their rivals can tie them to in campaign ads. But name a president who inherited a worse situation? No. W isn't to blame for all of his shortcomings, but it cannot be ignored. Just as the most hostile and ineffective House in history cannot be overlooked when assigning blame. There is plenty to go around. And we the people should shoulder some blame too for allowing our political leaders to act like enormous children for so long. That is why I seek a more moderate Democrat and GOP party because allowing people in your party to say publicly some of the things that have gone unchecked for so long only promotes a division I am beyond sick of in this country.

 

 

The House is doing exactly what we voted them in to do: stop the Democrats. Just like 1994. Just like it will always be. The American voter just has a short memory, they forget Carter's Misery Index, the forget HillaryCare, and they'll forget Obamacare once it collapses and a few years pass. The problem is that every time we move further left in governance there isn't a corresponding correction to the right when the other party gains power. Because they're big government politicians too. In short, this temporary blip of freedom in human history is about to end because, as Franklin noted at it's founding, it's difficult to keep.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato