I don't believe every administration partakes in illegally shipping guns to criminals in attempt to build up legislation for gun control. That's a special kind of low.

Lower than shipping guns to Iran in violation of an arms embargo in order to fund a terrorist organization you know is violating human rights and which US Congress has specifically forbidden you from funding any further? Lower than starting a 9 year, $2.4 trillion war costing the lives of 4,400+ US soldiers on the basis of blatantly false and fabricated evidence? Or lower than invading countries with democratically elected governments in order to install puppet regimes so US corporate interests are protected?

 

And those are just the ones we know about.

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Lower than shipping guns to Iran in violation of an arms embargo in order to fund a terrorist organization you know is violating human rights and which US Congress has specifically forbidden you from funding any further? Lower than starting a 9 year, $2.4 trillion war costing the lives of 4,400+ US soldiers on the basis of blatantly false and fabricated evidence? Or lower than invading countries with democratically elected governments in order to install puppet regimes so US corporate interests are protected?

 

And those are just the ones we know about.

 

I'm not defending any of that, I fully believe the US foreign policy of the last few decades is flawed starting with messing with Iran in the 60's and on. It's been on bluster after another trying to fix this mess we made over there. That's why you'll see over time I'm a subscriber of Ron Paul's type of non-interventionism. I'd even border on calling myself an isolationist, except I understand and support private industries need to compete on the global market place.

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You are talking about the same administration that lied about Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS Scandal, The Arab Spring............should I go on?

I'm no fan of this administration, and particularly our Secretary of State, Lurch Kerry.  Still, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.  I don't think he's lying. 

 

This administration certainly has taken the art of lying to a new level.  They'll lie even when the evidence is overwhelmingly proving they're lying.  And they do it because they know two things.  First, they won't be challenged by the media.  Second, they know the majority of people won't bother to look beyond the lip service. 

 

Every administration lies.  It's not something they own an exclusive for.  But, I've never seen one that will go to such lengths to lie about things that it's just pointless to do so. 

 

In this instance, I don't believe Kerry is lying.  There's enough evidence out there to confirm the intelligence he has shared. 

 

I don't believe every administration partakes in illegally shipping guns to criminals in attempt to build up legislation for gun control. That's a special kind of low.

 

Fast & Furious is only one thing.  Gun running has become somewhat of a specialty for this administration.  Not only across our own border into Mexico.  But, if you have done any research on the whole Benghazi situation, we were brokering weapons deals with the Syrian rebels, providing them with weapons we had confiscated from Khadaffi's weapons caches found all around the country.  We were selling these weapons to the rebels who also happened to be affiliated with al Qaeda and other terror organizations that we are supposedly engaged with.

 

When the consulate was overrun and 4 Americans died in 2012, some of the weapons used were provided by the United States.  Furthermore, some of those who were involved in the attack were the same people we were dealing with in the weapons transfer to Syrian rebels. 

 

We've also armed ISIS both intentionally, and unintentionally thanks to their military abandoning equipment and leaving behind some pretty sophisticated weaponry.  It wouldn't be a huge shock to see some of this military hardware making its way across our southern border as the straw man exodus of children occupies our border patrol agents. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I'm no fan of this administration, and particularly our Secretary of State, Lurch Kerry.  Still, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.  I don't think he's lying. 

 

This administration certainly has taken the art of lying to a new level.  They'll lie even when the evidence is overwhelmingly proving they're lying.  And they do it because they know two things.  First, they won't be challenged by the media.  Second, they know the majority of people won't bother to look beyond the lip service. 

 

Every administration lies.  It's not something they own an exclusive for.  But, I've never seen one that will go to such lengths to lie about things that it's just pointless to do so. 

 

In this instance, I don't believe Kerry is lying.  There's enough evidence out there to confirm the intelligence he has shared. 

 

 

Fast & Furious is only one thing.  Gun running has become somewhat of a specialty for this administration.  Not only across our own border into Mexico.  But, if you have done any research on the whole Benghazi situation, we were brokering weapons deals with the Syrian rebels, providing them with weapons we had confiscated from Khadaffi's weapons caches found all around the country.  We were selling these weapons to the rebels who also happened to be affiliated with al Qaeda and other terror organizations that we are supposedly engaged with.

 

When the consulate was overrun and 4 Americans died in 2012, some of the weapons used were provided by the United States.  Furthermore, some of those who were involved in the attack were the same people we were dealing with in the weapons transfer to Syrian rebels. 

 

We've also armed ISIS both intentionally, and unintentionally thanks to their military abandoning equipment and leaving behind some pretty sophisticated weaponry.  It wouldn't be a huge shock to see some of this military hardware making its way across our southern border as the straw man exodus of children occupies our border patrol agents. 

 

Yup you nailed it, Benghazi was a botched gun running operations. Glad to see people are aware of this and it's become more talked about outside the conspiracy websites.

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Lower than shipping guns to Iran in violation of an arms embargo in order to fund a terrorist organization you know is violating human rights and which US Congress has specifically forbidden you from funding any further? Lower than starting a 9 year, $2.4 trillion war costing the lives of 4,400+ US soldiers on the basis of blatantly false and fabricated evidence? Or lower than invading countries with democratically elected governments in order to install puppet regimes so US corporate interests are protected?

 

And those are just the ones we know about.

 

The "false and fabricated evidence" is a potentially specious claim. 

 

The intelligence was there indicating there were WMD in Iraq.  The thing that people fixate on is the fact that they weren't found.  They forget that the UN resolution that was used as the impetus for sending in troops authorized the use of force if Sadaam Hussein did not allow unfettered access to all of his weapons sites for inspection by the UN.  That resolution was in place following the first gulf war.  He kicked inspectors out of the country.  That's all that was necessary to enforce the resolution.  In the end, there was a pretty healthy coalition of nations that signed off on military intervention. 

 

There have been reports over the past few years that indicate perhaps there were actually WMD there that were simply never reported.  We know Hussein used them on his people, so we know they did indeed exist.  But, there are reports indicating many of those weapons were smuggled across the border into Syria.  These WMD are possibly the same ones that Syria has used on their people more recently.

 

There was also a report that came out when ISIS had overtaken a region of Iraq.  The report didn't get much attention here, but it was mentioned that hundreds of tons of disused Sarin and Mustard gas was taken by ISIS.  This was a month ago. 

 

This al-Muthana was one of the primary manufacturing facilities for Iraq in their heyday in the 80's and 90's.  There were still tons of WMD there which was NEVER reported in the US media.  Probably because it would have blown up their great attack on the previous administration painting them as completely fabricating the possibility of WMDs existing in Iraq.  To this day, the current administration has used the "unjust war" rhetoric when talking about Iraq despite the fact that everyone and their brother in the administration knows they had discovered stockpiles of WMD.  It is a shame it was never reported in the US or anywhere for that matter. 

 

I'm not saying the Bush administration didn't have, at the very least, bad intelligence that was provided by some shady subjects.  But, it appears there was some truth in the matter now that details are coming out about this facility and what was still being stored there. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

There's also reports that the White House at the time knew Iraq no longer possessed WMD's but had already taken the decision to attack in the near future and all they needed was a reason to do so. They simply made the intelligence fit the policies already in place and away they went. And reading through the Telegraph's article I get the distinct impression anything stored there requires means way beyond the capability of ISIS to weaponize, it's all "potentially" and "possibly". Having deadly chemicals and having WMD's are not the same thing. 

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There's also reports that the White House at the time knew Iraq no longer possessed WMD's but had already taken the decision to attack in the near future and all they needed was a reason to do so. They simply made the intelligence fit the policies already in place and away they went. And reading through the Telegraph's article I get the distinct impression anything stored there requires means way beyond the capability of ISIS to weaponize, it's all "potentially" and "possibly". Having deadly chemicals and having WMD's are not the same thing. 

 

The UN sanctions related to WMDs didn't differentiate between materials used to make chemical weapons, and actual weapons of mass destruction.  If the materials exist, which the report I posted above indicates they do, and both Sarin and Mustard Gas are capable of being weaponized, it can't be just dismissed just because they're not already weaponized.  ISIS now has control over this material unless something has changed recently.  If you don't think they would leverage this material in some manner to create havoc, I've got a bridge I would like to sell you. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The UN sanctions related to WMDs didn't differentiate between materials used to make chemical weapons, and actual weapons of mass destruction. If the materials exist, which the report I posted above indicates they do, and both Sarin and Mustard Gas are capable of being weaponized, it can't be just dismissed just because they're not already weaponized. ISIS now has control over this material unless something has changed recently. If you don't think they would leverage this material in some manner to create havoc, I've got a bridge I would like to sell you.

Bush certainly implied they had bigger WMDs with his "mushroom cloud" speech. Like you said, they all lie. Republican-Democrat, its all a joke. Its the same people lying and orchestrating things for their own selfish gain or agenda. There are no more politicians serving for the common good.

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