This seems a lot like rationalization.

 

We already know that truly elite QBs don't need a great line, and it doesn't explain why his passes down the field are so much worse than the other guys.

It's not rationalization, it's context. No, elite QBs don't need great lines...but they need to at least be somewhat competent and Fresno's just wasn't, especially against USC. You could tell by the second half on the non screen Carr was just counting to two and throwing up a prayer to Adams. There was no other option unfortunately.

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It was the @NU_Gap charting from the RW article a few weeks ago. We talked about it then w/ a forum topic too. It's a really good breakdown, but unfortunately it leaves a ton of context out...particularly for Carr. Like how the screen passes were essentially Fresno's run game, so naturally that's going to skew the %s to all quadrants. Also, Carr had by a good margin the lowest snap to sack time among the 4 (I saw the exact times in a tweet but forget where, sorry) because he was being protected by a line that is literally worse than some high school lines out there. 

 

And no I'm not knocking Greg at all he's one of my favorite follows and does great charting work, but even he admits it's, again, just a piece of the evaluation puzzle and by itself doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

That refutes the screen passes.  But still:

 




He almost drops twice what everyone else drops under pressure.

 

Bridgewater: 17 points

Carr: 30 points

Bortles: 16 points

Manziel: 18 points

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I thought it was unfortunate that during the first half of the Senior Bowl, Derek Carr was never under any pressure so scouts could not see he sucks in a crowded pocket.

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It's not rationalization, it's context. No, elite QBs don't need great lines...but they need to at least be somewhat competent and Fresno's just wasn't, especially against USC. You could tell by the second half on the non screen Carr was just counting to two and throwing up a prayer to Adams. There was no other option unfortunately.

 

With what I've seen of his play and his stats I wouldn't want him before the third day, but in such a weak class I guess it's possible he could get overdrafted.

 

He looks frighteningly like Gabbert.

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I have watched every cut up of his on draftbreakdown, many of them multiple times. I can promise you he doesn't crumble. It's not even close to a Blaine Gabbert (or even Eli Manning) situation. 

I agree.  If he fails, it won't be for the same reasons that Gabbert has failed.  That being said, I don't really want to draft him.  At #3 I like Bridgewater and Bortles better, and with our 2nd round pick I like Mettenberger much better.

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With what I've seen of his play and his stats I wouldn't want him before the third day, but in such a weak class I guess it's possible he could get overdrafted.


He looks frighteningly like Gabbert.

Its funny how you seem willing to completely write off a QB prospect who hasn't played a single down in the NFL but on that same token was willing to give Gabbert 3 years to show his potential.


Irony at its finest.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Its funny how you seem willing to completely write off a QB prospect who hasn't played a single down in the NFL but on that same token was willing to give Gabbert 3 years to show his potential.


Irony at its finest.

 

Your use of the term is even more ironic given your grasp of the concept.

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Your use of the term is even more ironic given your grasp of the concept.

My question to is why were you willing to give Gabbert the benefit of the doubt with all of his shortcomings but refuse to do the same with prospect that you compare closely to Gabbert?

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

The more I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Arizona or Cleveland at the end of the 1st round assuming Cleveland stays put.  Arizona might be a great place for him, he stays behind Palmer for awhile and gets groomed.  I doubt he will be there when we pick in the 2nd.

 

Cleveland amazingly has had 2 first round picks twice in the last few years and have wasted all but one of the picks (Joe Thomas vs. Brady Quinn, Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden). WOW!  Can you imagine if they bomb it again!  

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

My question to is why were you willing to give Gabbert the benefit of the doubt with all of his shortcomings but refuse to do the same with prospect that you compare closely to Gabbert?

 

There's a big difference between saying "Let's check the car out since we already own it to make sure it's not fixable" and "This Carr seems just like the one we just got rid of with all the problems, I wouldn't pay much for it."

 

Are you really unable to understand this distinction?

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Meh, the Carr name is taboo nowadays I guess. 

 

He's intriguing, definitely.

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There's a big difference between saying "Let's check the car out since we already own it to make sure it's not fixable" and "This Carr seems just like the one we just got rid of with all the problems, I wouldn't pay much for it."

 

Are you really unable to understand this distinction?

 

Neither option is good if you are looking for a "franchise" quarterback. You want a guy who is NFL ready and does not need a year on the bench.

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I still want Teddy. 

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I've been watching Carr in person for a long time, and on the old board I said I'd take him in the 3rd. In a perfect world we would possibly be able to trade from our 3rd back up into picks 50-64 and get him, but I think his arm is just too talented for him to last that long.


I'm by no means an expert, (or even good to be honest) at evaluating college QBs, but he has some alarming habits as most of you all know by now. And for those making the Gabbert comparisons, I think he's much more akin to Stafford and especially Cutler in style, I personally want no part of him at 3. At 39, I would cautiously trust Caldwell.


One last thing - I feel by far his best attribute is his leadership abilities.

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I think he's much more akin to Stafford and especially Cutler in style.

Yes, Cutler and Stafford are his obvious main two comps. And you'd have to admit, a readily coachable and workaholic Cutler or Stafford would be awesome QBs. Their stubbornness is what holds them both back more than anything.

 

By all accounts Carr is as coachable and hard working as they come. 

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I've been watching Carr in person for a long time, and on the old board I said I'd take him in the 3rd. In a perfect world we would possibly be able to trade from our 3rd back up into picks 50-64 and get him, but I think his arm is just too talented for him to last that long.


I'm by no means an expert, (or even good to be honest) at evaluating college QBs, but he has some alarming habits as most of you all know by now. And for those making the Gabbert comparisons, I think he's much more akin to Stafford and especially Cutler in style, I personally want no part of him at 3. At 39, I would cautiously trust Caldwell.


One last thing - I feel by far his best attribute is his leadership abilities.

 

If people are comparing Teddy Bridgewater to Matthew Stafford why include him in the Derek Carr discussions? Unless both quarterbacks are very similar and it does not make a difference who we pick at #3, only one of them should be compared to Stafford.

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Yes, Cutler and Stafford are his obvious main two comps. And you'd have to admit, a readily coachable and workaholic Cutler or Stafford would be awesome QBs. Their stubbornness is what holds them both back more than anything.

 

By all accounts Carr is as coachable and hard working as they come.

Yeah that's the problem. I totally agree that I'd take either of those guys in a heartbeat. I also feel that Carr has better leadership abilities than at least Cutler and I'm 91% sure he's a harder worker than both. I still have major reservations about him @3 though.

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Yeah that's the problem. I totally agree that I'd take either of those guys in a heartbeat. I also feel that Carr has better leadership abilities than at least Cutler and I'm 91% sure he's a harder worker than both. I still have major reservations about him @3 though.

I'm not even saying I'd take him at 3 since he is 5th on my wish list behind Teddy, Bortles, Clowney, and Mack. However, I wouldn't be upset at all if Dave did take him at 3, whereas many people here would want to jump off a bridge.

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If people are comparing Teddy Bridgewater to Matthew Stafford why include him in the Derek Carr discussions? Unless both quarterbacks are very similar and it does not make a difference who we pick at #3, only one of them should be compared to Stafford.

You might want to re-read that post again.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."