I agree with TMD here. Our situation is not at all different. We have just as much opportunity to change things around as any other team. What, we don't have the same draft? What, we don't have the same salary cap? What, we don't have the chance to sign free agents?


We had the chance to get Andy Reid but we went with a coordinator. We had the chance to get Alex Smith, we went with Gabbert. We had the chance to get anyone not under contract just like every other team.


Gus and Dave own 53 of the players on the roster. If we have no talent it's because they signed, drafted, and kept no talent!


Regards..............the Chiefjag

 

Andy Reid wasn't coming here.  Sure, money could get him here blah blah blah but a guy like Andy Reid is going to pick where he wants to go.  He was going somewhere with a talented roster (KC) to start with.  That KC team was a darn good football with a horrible coaching situation.  A decent coach and even an average QB shows up and surprise!  They're not a bad team.  They never were.  That roster is loaded.

 

This team was in horrid shape personnel wise.  Dave and Gus could have tried to do things quicker but that's not their plan.  I have a feeling that if this roster was better off, Gus and Dave would have that quicker turnaround type plan in place.  Who knows and we'll see soon if things are working or not.  Given the state of the roster I'm willing to give them more than one season to fix things.  This roster was full of overpaid and underperforming talent.

 

Sure we could have signed Alex Smith...we'll never know this for certain but I don't see Alex Smith wanting to go to a rebuilding team.  Why would he? Money only goes so far.  Some players really do want to win.  There also is a line that you can't cross too far in terms of what you pay versus what the guy is worth.  I believe we would have had to pay far too much for Smith to come here.  He went to a team that was built to win with a few minor adjustments.  It was a no brainer move for him.

 

Yes we have a chance to get everyone not under contract like any other team but that's only a part of the equation you're looking at.  You're making something too simple and you know that.  

 

Gus and Dave will get at least one more year for me.  If we don't start seeing legitimate improvement by the end of this coming year then things will be different with me.  This team was just too bad from years of horrid drafting, coaching, and signings.

 

I am still not liking the Babich/Fisch signings and could see that being Bradley's demise.  Time will tell.

 

*EDIT*

 

Took out the first sentence...I was wrong with it and it's not needed.

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I agree with TMD here. Our situation is not at all different. We have just as much opportunity to change things around as any other team. What, we don't have the same draft? What, we don't have the same salary cap? What, we don't have the chance to sign free agents?


We had the chance to get Andy Reid (or Chip Kelly or Bruce Arians) 
but we went with a coordinator. We had the chance to get Alex Smith, (or other QB) 
we went with Gabbert. We had the chance to get anyone not under contract (or make trade) 
just like every other team.


Gus and Dave own 53 of the players on the roster. If we have no talent it's because they signed, drafted, and kept no talent!


Regards..............the Chiefjag

 

Agreed with above just added a few small details. 

 

It really is the truth. 

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Any Reid? With the hole our franchise needed to crawl out of we absolutely needed a motivator like Gus here.

 

.....so you'd choose Gus over Andy? :ermm: 

 

I love all the people jumping all over TMD coming up with reasons the other teams can have success and we can't. Jags have been rebuilding since 2007 including numerous coaching changes. Pretty ridiculous for 6 seasons to go by and we are the bottom of the league.


But keep making all the excuses you want, jags are among a very small list to not seem to be able to right the ship so to speak after a limited time.

 

+1

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.....so you'd choose Gus over Andy? :ermm:

I would. I am glad Gus is here. I think he's going to be a special coach.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

I would. I am glad Gus is here. I think he's going to be a special coach.

 

I hope you're proven right. 

 

If Gus is going to be a special coach, we should see significant improvement by the end of next season. 

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I hope you're proven right. 

 

If Gus is going to be a special coach, we should see significant improvement by the end of next season. 

 

This I can agree on.  Next year will be telling in the way things are headed.  Improvement has to happen next year.  No excuses.

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I hope you're proven right. 

 

If Gus is going to be a special coach, we should see significant improvement by the end of next season. 

This is true.  

 

However I find it odd that you want to act as if our roster wasn't much, much worse than the teams you listed in the OP.  Especially after complaining about it over the past four years of Gene Smith drafting so much.   

 

It makes no sense to ignore that we had a roster that was either the worst in the NFL or in the bottom 3 depending on who you ask.  I don't think any of those coaches you listed would have gotten more than 6 wins out of this squad. A couple of them may not have gotten 4. 

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This is true.  

 

However I find it odd that you want to act as if our roster wasn't much, much worse than the teams you listed in the OP.  Especially after complaining about it over the past four years of Gene Smith drafting so much.   

 

It makes no sense to ignore that we had a roster that was either the worst in the NFL or in the bottom 3 depending on who you ask.  I don't think any of those coaches you listed would have gotten more than 6 wins out of this squad. A couple of them may not have gotten 4. 

 

I disagree. I think every coach I listed in the OP could have got at least 4 wins from this roster. The schedule in weeks 9 through 15 was very easy. 

 

I think most of them would have gotten 6 wins as a season total, minimum. 

 

And some of those coaches, probably most, wouldn't have sat on this QB situation, either. As Chiefjag agreed, this regime owns that decision. 

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I would. I am glad Gus is here. I think he's going to be a special coach.

I wouldn't. This team needed a shot in the arm and selecting another coaching prospect was not a good idea. This team needed a proven winner, but what this team got was another prospect, who hires prospects.

But we're Jacksonville right? Our turnaround is more complicated than ANY OTHER team because we're Jacksonville.

Regards...............the Chiefjag

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This team needed a shot in the arm and selecting another coaching prospect was not a good idea. This team needed a proven winner, but what this team got was another prospect, who hires prospects.

 

Regards...............the Chiefjag

 

I agree with this too. Bradley was essentially a prospect. He had zero head coaching experience. Reid, Kelly or even Arians would all have been better choices for what we needed, partly because of their head coaching experience, as well as success over the years with QB development/ QB evaluation/ getting production from the QB position.  

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I wouldn't. This team needed a shot in the arm and selecting another coaching prospect was not a good idea. This team needed a proven winner, but what this team got was another prospect, who hires prospects.


But we're Jacksonville right? Our turnaround is more complicated than ANY OTHER team because we're Jacksonville.


Regards...............the Chiefjag

 

 

Nope.  I don't see that ever ever being mentioned.  Well thought out answers have tried to explain the viewpoint to you.  I don't know why, because you have your mind set in your ways.  Nothing wrong with it, its your opinion and I respect it Chief.  We see things differently.

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I am unhappy with the Jaguars. I am tired of the rest of the league running circles around us. We have a ton of cap space and what do we have to show for it? I think outside of Oakland we have the worst QB one, two of anyone. Anyone know why we picked up Stanzi?

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Nope.  I don't see that ever ever being mentioned.  Well thought out answers have tried to explain the viewpoint to you.  I don't know why, because you have your mind set in your ways.  Nothing wrong with it, its your opinion and I respect it Chief.  We see things differently.

Those "well thought out answers" are essentially saying the same thing, i.e. our roster was vacant of talent. I'm watching that talent playing right now in the playoffs. I'll be watching that same talent play next weekend too.

So here we are again with a new coach, a new GM, a new OC, and a new DC. None of which has any experience.

We don't have any choice but to let Dave and the Gus bus keep rolling, but to suggest that here in Jacksonville a turnaround needs to take 3-4 years, which is a popular belief, I can't agree with.

Regards...............the Chiefjag

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I am unhappy with the Jaguars. I am tired of the rest of the league running circles around us. We have a ton of cap space and what do we have to show for it? I think outside of Oakland we have the worst QB one, two of anyone. Anyone know why we picked up Stanzi?

 

Isn't Stanzi Capt 'Murica?

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I don't know if Stanzi is Murica, I just know he was allegedly on our team while the Henne trainwreck kept rolling.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

The other coaches had a lot more talent to start with.  I know its frustrating, but Gene's bad drafting for years is the reason we are so behind the rest of the league.  It isn't because of not getting Andy Reid or others.  I think a more fair comparison would be two teams that have had similar success to the Jags in the last few years, the Bills and Browns.  They have had similar drafting disasters and regime changes recently.  I think they both finished 4-12 or 5-11.  I am not saying we should try and emulate these franchises, just that their head coaches and seasons would be a fairer comparison.

 

Neither of these teams have had success in the last decade, unlike each of the teams mentioned in the OP.  Each of those teams (or most of them) have been playoff contenders for years.  Buffalo and Cleveland are a better comparison, IMHO.

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

Let's look instead at teams that switched GM's this year.

 

Chargers: +2 wins


Cardinals: +5 wins

 

Chiefs: +9 wins


Browns: -1 win

 

Jets: +2 wins


Only two general mangers did better than the Jaguars in terms of more wins.  It's no coincidence that both of them got new Quarterbacks this year as well.  Which accounts for the positive changes for them.  The Jaguars did not upgrade the QB position yet, but still managed to get +2 wins this year.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

We can hang it up period until we find a qb! So we'll keep meandering along putting things in place but we NEED a qb!

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Interesting that everyone around here always cries "patience" but when looking around the league it is more apparent than ever that quick turnarounds are capable.


Andy Reid made the playoffs in his first year at KC

Chip Kelly made the playoffs in his first year at Philly

Mike McCoy made the playoffs in his first year at San Diego

Bruce Arians won 10 games in his first year at Arizona

Mark Trestman was within one win of making the playoffs despite losing his starting QB for a good part of the year at Chicago.

Those teams all have levels more talent/depth than we do.


I like Gus, and am not disappointed with the hire. I expected 4 wins going into the season and that's what we got. Be patient bruh, we are getting over Genocide.

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No commercial messages in sigs

I am a Jags fan. Just a far more demanding one than you.

You're no Jags fan.


Funny how you're so demanding about an entity you have zero impact on, yet in your personal life there are clearly no lofty expectations beyond avoiding hot grease.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.