It simply comes down to emotion vs pragmatism. There isn't a cogent argument that would say that winning meaningless games right now is better for the long term state of the franchise than losing and getting a higher draft pick. 

 

However, we are fans (short for fanatics of course) and fans are highly emotional. Emotions lead to a lot of bad decisions, which is a lot of highly emotional people on here want wins right now at the cost of the long term future of the team.

 

And there's nothing particularly wrong with that, it's just the truth. 

Says who? A bunch of young kids who have spent half the season hearing they are the worst team in history are learning how to win,that does nothing but good things for this team! Sorry if it ruins your cute little train picture, but thats the truth!

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I'm fine with Henne as the backup, just not Gabbert. Please cut Gabbert and end the nightmare. 

I would be fine with Henne starting a few early season games if needed. If we have a rookie coming in, lets not rush whoever it is unless he's 100%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ready!

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It simply comes down to emotion vs pragmatism. There isn't a cogent argument that would say that winning meaningless games right now is better for the long term state of the franchise than losing and getting a higher draft pick. 

 

However, we are fans (short for fanatics of course) and fans are highly emotional. Emotions lead to a lot of bad decisions, which is a lot of highly emotional people on here want wins right now at the cost of the long term future of the team.

 

And there's nothing particularly wrong with that, it's just the truth. 

 

There's an implicit assumption here that getting the number one pick is getting a sure fire franchise player when in reality, that is not typically the truth.  Since the Jaguars have been in the league, the number one draft picks have been..

 

<p class="">Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Jake Long, JaMarcus Russell, Mario Williams, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Carr, Michael Vick, Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Payton Manning, Orlando Pace, Keyshawn Johnson, and Ki-Jana Carter.

<p class=""> 

<p class="">How many of those are true franchise players?  Three or four?  Most ended up being decent players but a lot more were busts.  Depending on the number one draft pick to bail out your franchise is iffy at best and foolhardy at worst.  The key is to draft well *overall* and build a winning culture which seems to be the focus of this front office.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

And if we are not in prime position for our QB of the future, I'm sure a veteran stop gap will be available who is better than Henne.

What makes you think this?  This is a rare occurrence and I doubt we find much better than Henne in free agency.

 

Not unless Chicago lets Cutler walk and we pay him a king's ransom.

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It simply comes down to emotion vs pragmatism. There isn't a cogent argument that would say that winning meaningless games right now is better for the long term state of the franchise than losing and getting a higher draft pick. 

 

However, we are fans (short for fanatics of course) and fans are highly emotional. Emotions lead to a lot of bad decisions, which is a lot of highly emotional people on here want wins right now at the cost of the long term future of the team.

 

And there's nothing particularly wrong with that, it's just the truth. 

 

So we want to win because our emotions get the best of us?  We somehow lose our minds for the fix that is victory?  Count me in.

 

I'm sorry man, I think emotion (i.e. Teddy crush) has gotten the best of you.

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So we want to win because our emotions get the best of us?  We somehow lose our minds for the fix that is victory?  Count me in.

 

I'm sorry man, I think emotion (i.e. Teddy crush) has gotten the best of you.

Its the same crush the Raiders, Rams, 49ers, Bengals, Browns, Texans, Colts, and Falcons fans had on

 

Russell, Bradford, Smith, Palmer, Couch, Carr, George, and Bartkowski

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I want Teddy as much as anyone, but how great has it been to see this team improve each week? I'd much rather see these guys but into Gus' system, as that shows that his system is working. Gives us hope for the future...


But, dear God, we need a franchise QB.

The team was supposed to get better, after flushing Gene's big smelly turds down the bucket. I'm not all that excited about it.

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There's an implicit assumption here that getting the number one pick is getting a sure fire franchise player when in reality, that is not typically the truth. Since the Jaguars have been in the league, the number one draft picks have been..


Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, Jake Long, JaMarcus Russell, Mario Williams, Alex Smith, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Carr, Michael Vick, Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Payton Manning, Orlando Pace, Keyshawn Johnson, and Ki-Jana Carter.


How many of those are true franchise players? Three or four? Most ended up being decent players but a lot more were busts. Depending on the number one draft pick to bail out your franchise is iffy at best and foolhardy at worst. The key is to draft well *overall* and build a winning culture which seems to be the focus of this front office.

I think most sensible people just want the pick of the litter.

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The team was supposed to get better, after flushing Gene's big smelly turds down the bucket. I'm not all that excited about it.

So, they were supposed to start winning overnight? With this roster? Face it, nobody expected this team to win 3 games this year. They've already overachieved.


The question now becomes what happens when Bradley gets to coach actual talent? The fact that Bradley has done as much this year with what little he was given to work with speaks volumes. It's not about this year. It never was. It's all about the future.

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There's an implicit assumption here that getting the number one pick is getting a sure fire franchise player when in reality, that is not typically the truth.  Since the Jaguars have been in the league, the number one draft picks have been..

 

 

Nah it doesn't imply that at all. It simply implies that giving Dave the entire pool of players to choose his favorite from is better than not giving him the entire pool of players to choose from. Is it better by a lot? Some years yes, some years no. But it's without a doubt better to some extent. That's all.

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So we want to win because our emotions get the best of us?  We somehow lose our minds for the fix that is victory?  Count me in.

 

I'm sorry man, I think emotion (i.e. Teddy crush) has gotten the best of you.

Nah not this either. I just understand that Dave having a 100% chance of getting his favorite player in the draft is the best long term option. If he doesn't get a chance to draft his top rated player in the draft then the wins weren't worth it when it comes to the future of the franchise on the macro level. . 

 

And no, of course I know that the players/coaches/front office don't think that like because it's different on the inside looking out. I also know that he would never admit that he wants the #1 pick over winning in an interview. 

 

The emotional/fanatical part I was referring to is that most people can understand Monday-Saturday that losing for a better draft pick is best for the future of the franchise, but once Sunday rolls around and you're in the heat of the game then all you want to do is win. I am like that too. 

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we know henne is a capable backup, any chance we give gabbust another go?

You have to keep it the way it is. Everybody in the NFL world is crying that we need to stablize the quarterback issue. None seem to give what we've been through much consideration.

 

Gabbert has had three head coaches and a big glob of offensive coaches. That's not stable. Teams like Green Bay sit young QBs like Mark Brunell and Aaron Rodgers for a long period of time all the time. I like the way Bradley shut Gabbert down while still giving him enough backing. Blaine should never had been thrown to the wolves in the first place.

 

We all knock Henne, but his numbers show potential. Not saying he's about to become Drew Brees, but Chad has survived to a very interesting point in the development of pro quarterbacks. He's had extensive playing-time, but in many ways is still the same scouting report he was as a rookie.

 

I am sure he wants security. Seven kids, who wouldn't? I think we could offer him something to stick around. If the heads still like what they are seeing in Blaine Gabbert we'll have to remain faithful to their judgment.

 

Only the absolute best, elite quarterbacks should start as rookies. Teams starting their high draft pick QBs right away for the most part are wishful thinkers wanting you to believe something that doesn't meet the eye.

 

It depends upon what the coaching staff wants to do. If they believe in Blaine, we should know soon enough.

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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

 

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

Nah it doesn't imply that at all. It simply implies that giving Dave the entire pool of players to choose his favorite from is better than not giving him the entire pool of players to choose from. Is it better by a lot? Some years yes, some years no. But it's without a doubt better to some extent. That's all.

 

Given the track record of number one picks...no it's not any better, especially not at the expense of losing.  Everything else being equal, I'd love to get the number one pick every year but trying to win is the first priority.

 

History shows that teams generally get better by having a solid front office and drafting well *overall*.  Looking back at the best players for the Jaguars, Boselli, Taylor, JSmooth, MJD, Brunell, Brackens....only one was acquired with a top 5 draft pick.  

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

It simply comes down to emotion vs pragmatism. There isn't a cogent argument that would say that winning meaningless games right now is better for the long term state of the franchise than losing and getting a higher draft pick. 

 

However, we are fans (short for fanatics of course) and fans are highly emotional. Emotions lead to a lot of bad decisions, which is a lot of highly emotional people on here want wins right now at the cost of the long term future of the team.

 

And there's nothing particularly wrong with that, it's just the truth. 

 

I'll give you a cogent argument.  First of all, you cannot choose to win or lose.   The players  are going to play hard and the coaches are going to do their best.    So there's no such thing as tanking on purpose.  It can't be done.     Therefore, the only way to come up with the number one pick is to actually be the worst team in the league.   The problem with that is, it's an indictment of your coaches and your players.   It would mean that we truly suck and are  a very long way from ultimate success.   

 

If you want the first pick in the draft, then you are saying you are okay with being the worst team in the league.  You are okay with having a lousy team.   So which situation is better: having the worst team in the league plus the first pick in the draft, or having the fifth worst team in the league with the 5th pick in the draft?   I would take the latter, because it means we are starting a little closer to where we are trying to get.  

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I think most sensible people just want the pick of the litter.

 

Most sensible people want the pick of the litter.   But most sensible people don't want to pay the price to get the pick of the litter, and that price is, you have to truly suck on a historical level.    You have to have a very bad roster to start with to suck so bad you get the number one pick.   Add one guy to a very bad roster and what do you have?   Not much. 

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So winning is no longer good enough.

 

I guess some people won't be happy unless the team starts winning "their" way.

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I'll give you a cogent argument.  First of all, you cannot choose to win or lose.   The players  are going to play hard and the coaches are going to do their best.    So there's no such thing as tanking on purpose.  It can't be done.     Therefore, the only way to come up with the number one pick is to actually be the worst team in the league.   The problem with that is, it's an indictment of your coaches and your players.   It would mean that we truly suck and are  a very long way from ultimate success.   

 

If you want the first pick in the draft, then you are saying you are okay with being the worst team in the league.  You are okay with having a lousy team.   So which situation is better: having the worst team in the league plus the first pick in the draft, or having the fifth worst team in the league with the 5th pick in the draft?   I would take the latter, because it means we are starting a little closer to where we are trying to get.

That isn't what draft position means at all. Look at the Chiefs.

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LEONARD FOURNETTE FAN CLUB PRESIDENT. I WAS BEHIND HIM WHEN YOU ALL SAID HE WAS BRANDON JACOBS. QUIT HATING ON THE JAGUARS. GUS IS GONE. COUGHLIN HAS RESTORED ORDER. FOURNETTE IS FRED TAYLOR. DONT BELIEVE ME JUST WATCH.

That isn't what draft position means at all. Look at the Chiefs.

 

Think they were happy about that?   They fired their coach.   

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Think they were happy about that?   They fired their coach.

That's irrelevant. I only wanted to point out that having the first draft pick doesn't mean you're the "worst" team by a long shot. At least from a talent perspective. It's really all in the way the chips fall, which is why I prefer a lottery system.

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LEONARD FOURNETTE FAN CLUB PRESIDENT. I WAS BEHIND HIM WHEN YOU ALL SAID HE WAS BRANDON JACOBS. QUIT HATING ON THE JAGUARS. GUS IS GONE. COUGHLIN HAS RESTORED ORDER. FOURNETTE IS FRED TAYLOR. DONT BELIEVE ME JUST WATCH.

That's irrelevant. I only wanted to point out that having the first draft pick doesn't mean you're the "worst" team by a long shot. At least from a talent perspective. It's really all in the way the chips fall, which is why I prefer a lottery system.

 

It's a valid point,.   I would say there are exceptions, but in general, having the worst record means you are the worst team.  Kansas City was an aberration.   I don't know how they managed to lose all those games with that roster, but they certainly didn't do it on purpose, and having the first pick didn't propel them into the playoffs because they spent the first pick in the draft on a guy who is currently an average RT.  

 

What is this argument about, anyway?   We can't choose to win or lose.   So I guess we're arguing about whether we should be happy with winning.    Which is really a pointless argument, because whether we're happy or not doesn't affect anything.   So why not choose to be happy winning?  

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