You only scratched the surface.


 
In 2013, Dave Caldwell 


 
1) got rid of a serviceable LT who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT.

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left, kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs, one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick.

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick.


 
In 2009 , Gene Smith


 
1) got rid of a serviceable LT (Khalif Barnes) who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT (Pashos).

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left (Mike Peterson), kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs (Drayton Florence, Brian Williams), one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick (albeit by the Lions in 2007).

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE (Q. Groves) was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick (Mike Thomas).


 

 
There are some differences of course. Gene replaced both WRs while Dave replaced a third CB and a DT. Gene made less use of street free agency. But the parallel between the actions of the two GMs in their first year is stunning.

You also forgot to mention that both Gene and Dave's first name has 4 letters. Otherwise all correct.

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You also forgot to mention that both Gene and Dave's first name has 4 letters. Otherwise all correct.

We are London bound!!!

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Shack>>>>>>>Matt millen>>>>>gene smith

This is sad, but so true. 

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Boy, talk about making stuff up to fit your agenda.


Show me all these people who were talking about Smith and Caldwell being geniuses when they first started.


Unlike you and Eric, most of us take the adult view of waiting to see how it turns out, while hoping for the best.


Why do I get the feeling that you and your buddy Eric are hoping for the worst so you can say I told you so?

Really?


Where were you in 2009/2010? If the old board was up I could show the exact posts. Unfortunately we are left with tidbits. Here's what I found with a 1 second Google search:


<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.google.com/search?lr=&as_qdr=all&q=gene+Smith+genius++site:jaguars.com&sa=X&ei=xHt0Urm9JOvRiAL6koDwAQ&ved=0CCUQgwM&biw=360&bih=567'>http://www.google.com/search?lr=&as_qdr=all&q=gene+Smith+genius++site:jaguars.com&sa=X&ei=xHt0Urm9JOvRiAL6koDwAQ&ved=0CCUQgwM&biw=360&bih=567</a>


And here's the Caldwell gem:

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/516-caldwell-is-a-genius/'>http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/516-caldwell-is-a-genius/</a>

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

You only scratched the surface.


In 2013, Dave Caldwell


1) got rid of a serviceable LT who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT.

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left, kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs, one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick.

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick.


In 2009 , Gene Smith


1) got rid of a serviceable LT (Khalif Barnes) who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT (Pashos).

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left (Mike Peterson), kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs (Drayton Florence, Brian Williams), one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick (albeit by the Lions in 2007).

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE (Q. Groves) was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick (Mike Thomas).



There are some differences of course. Gene replaced both WRs while Dave replaced a third CB and a DT. Gene made less use of street free agency. But the parallel between the actions of the two GMs in their first year is stunning.

Good in depth post.

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Really?


Where were you in 2009/2010? If the old board was up I could show the exact posts. Unfortunately we are left with tidbits. Here's what I found with a 1 second Google search:


<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.google.com/search?lr=&as_qdr=all&q=gene+Smith+genius++site:jaguars.com&sa=X&ei=xHt0Urm9JOvRiAL6koDwAQ&ved=0CCUQgwM&biw=360&bih=567'>http://www.google.com/search?lr=&as_qdr=all&q=gene+Smith+genius++site:jaguars.com&sa=X&ei=xHt0Urm9JOvRiAL6koDwAQ&ved=0CCUQgwM&biw=360&bih=567</a>


And here's the Caldwell gem:

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/516-caldwell-is-a-genius/'>http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/516-caldwell-is-a-genius/</a>

haha

---

Really?


Where were you in 2009/2010? If the old board was up I could show the exact posts. Unfortunately we are left with tidbits. Here's what I found with a 1 second Google search:


<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.google.com/search?lr=&as_qdr=all&q=gene+Smith+genius++site:jaguars.com&sa=X&ei=xHt0Urm9JOvRiAL6koDwAQ&ved=0CCUQgwM&biw=360&bih=567'>http://www.google.com/search?lr=&as_qdr=all&q=gene+Smith+genius++site:jaguars.com&sa=X&ei=xHt0Urm9JOvRiAL6koDwAQ&ved=0CCUQgwM&biw=360&bih=567</a>


And here's the Caldwell gem:

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/516-caldwell-is-a-genius/'>http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/516-caldwell-is-a-genius/</a>

heres another and Adam posted in it lol

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/408-caldwell-is-a-genius/'>http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/topic/408-caldwell-is-a-genius/</a>

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Frick & Frack...

---

This begs the question, how has shack survived at the lions?

http://www.detroitlions.com/team/staff/j...2dcfc71c92

 

Is it because he's not the gm  (thought he was at first) but senior personnel exec.

 

Their other sr personnel exec was the bronco's gm for last 4 years.

 

Just askin'.

 

And gene, I doubt winds up anywhere.

Best I can figure he was a low paid maintenance guy for wayne until he could get the team sold.

---

"Stay tight, stay close. Great things are going to continue to happen for this football team."  - Doug Peterson

Smith's problem isn't the actions he took or what position he drafted or signed in FA. It's the players he drafted and signed. The fact Caldwell follows a similar method is irrelevant as long as the players he acquires are good enough.

---

Boy, talk about making stuff up to fit your agenda.

 

Show me all these people who were talking about Smith and Caldwell being geniuses when they first started.

 

Unlike you and Eric, most of us take the adult view of waiting to see how it turns out, while hoping for the best.

 

Why do I get the feeling that you and your buddy Eric are hoping for the worst so you can say I told you so?

 

ignorance is bliss I guess, cause I've always wanted this team to fail you know..............

---

Shack drafted Leftwhich and Reggie Williams back to back. Smith drafts Gabbert and Justin Blackmon back to back.

 

Both QB's are complete busts and both WR's are druggies who can't stay the #$%^ out of trouble. Shack drafts Barnes and Gene takes Monroe, both end up as overated underachieving tackles.

 

I have never seen a sports franchise get absolutely bent over this bad by poor regimes and bad luck.

 

There is no way any objectionable person would call Leftwich a bust. Sorry. :down:

---

You also forgot to mention that both Gene, and Caldwell both believe in building through the draft.

 

And that's a problem?

---

;

;

 

You only scratched the surface.


 

In 2013, Dave Caldwell 


 

<div>1) got rid of a serviceable LT who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT.

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left, kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs, one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick.

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick.

 
In 2009 , Gene Smith

 
1) got rid of a serviceable LT (Khalif Barnes) who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT (Pashos).

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left (Mike Peterson), kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs (Drayton Florence, Brian Williams), one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick (albeit by the Lions in 2007).

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE (Q. Groves) was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick (Mike Thomas).

 
 
There are some differences of course. Gene replaced both WRs while Dave replaced a third CB and a DT. Gene made less use of street free agency. But the parallel between the actions of the two GMs in their first year is stunning.

 

</div>

 

1. Gene Smith got nothing for Khalif Barnes.  Dave Caldwell got something for Monroe.  (Whether you believe it's enough or not)

 

2. Wasn't our starting RT last year... Guy freaking Whimper?  Totally the same as replacing Pashos.  

 

4. Mathis was aging, and Cox was injury prone.  


6. Rackley didn't play a single game last year. QB's don't change teams that often, and there were none available to either of the men.  Both kept pro-bowl caliber RB's because that's what any GM would do.  


7. Teams don't usually give up on players so quickly.  

 

8. How often do teams release their punter or placekicker?  How many teams throw away their third round pick punter for that matter? 

 

Now let's look at some key differences instead of a few similarities that are likely shared by other teams over the years and/or that are mostly coincidence:

 

1. Dave Caldwell did not trade up in the draft once.  For all Gene Smith preached about the importance of the draft, he sure traded up a lot.  He traded away his 2nd round pick in 2010 for a 3rd round pick in 2009.  He was busy building a team for the 'now' rather than for the 'future'.

 

2. Dave Caldwell brought in a new coach.  Gene Smith retained the old regime.

 

3. Gene Smith avoided SEC players like the plague in the draft.  Caldwell's first pick was an SEC player.  (Not that SEC is the be all end all, but you find talent where you find talent, and that includes the SEC)

 

So far it's been one year.  You aren't going to find a lot of differences -- but #1 there is a key difference.  As long as Caldwell avoids falling in love with aLOLuLOLu or any such player, he should be better than Gene Smith easily.  (also not drafting a punter in the 3rd round).  Not that it's saying a whole lot to be better than Gene Smith.  I think we could let random message board users do the job, and they'd probably end up with a slightly better team than what Gene left.

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Gabbert couldn't sniff Leftwich's shoe in terms of NFL talent.  Leftwich was goofy on the move and couldn't stay healthy but a decent QB.  Gabbert is the worst quarterback in NFL history.  Williams legit was never that good.  Blackmon is very good with a chance to be elite but probably can't stay out of trouble all the same.  

---

Gene's Myth

Shack Harris >>>>> Gene Smith

 

It's not even close either. They're both awful though. I can't believe "Gene Smith is a genius" and "In Gene I trust" was actually a thing. 

 

It was a thing because of delusional sunshine pumpers like FBT on this board.

---

It was a thing because of delusional sunshine pumpers like FBT on this board.

 

Ah, the IGWT days...

---

Gene's Myth

Just trying to diagnose and compare those two bumbling idiots is a waste of time..

---

Now let's look at some key differences instead of a few similarities that are likely shared by other teams over the years and/or that are mostly coincidence:

 

1. Dave Caldwell did not trade up in the draft once.  For all Gene Smith preached about the importance of the draft, he sure traded up a lot.  He traded away his 2nd round pick in 2010 for a 3rd round pick in 2009.  He was busy building a team for the 'now' rather than for the 'future'.

 

2. Dave Caldwell brought in a new coach.  Gene Smith retained the old regime.

 

3. Gene Smith avoided SEC players like the plague in the draft.  Caldwell's first pick was an SEC player.  (Not that SEC is the be all end all, but you find talent where you find talent, and that includes the SEC)

 

So far it's been one year.  You aren't going to find a lot of differences -- but #1 there is a key difference.  As long as Caldwell avoids falling in love with aLOLuLOLu or any such player, he should be better than Gene Smith easily.  (also not drafting a punter in the 3rd round).  Not that it's saying a whole lot to be better than Gene Smith.  I think we could let random message board users do the job, and they'd probably end up with a slightly better team than what Gene left.

 

There are, of course, some differences in the way the two handled individual cases, OT traded by one and a WR traded by the other, one fills position A with a draft pick, the other with a free agent. Gene signed veteran Torry Holt while all of Caldwell's free agents were under 30. They inherited different teams under different owners and were faced with different options in the draft and free agency. But the similarities are amazing. To respond to your points:


 

1. I agree this is in Caldwell's favor. I was highly critical of the trade that got us Cox. However, Caldwell has not impressed me as a shrewd trader. From his statements it seems that he did not aggressively pursue a trade down instead of Joeckel, nor did he think of trading Monroe until the Ravens called. Neither is the skilled trader that Shack was. Feel free to criticize Shack's 1st round picks, but he had a great record with trades. Harvey was a terrible pick but the trade value was excellent.


 

2. I don't think Gene Smith was given the choice. Weaver was the one who eventually fired JDR, not Gene. I've seen nothing from Bradley that makes me think he's any better than Mularkey, and that's a very low standard to exceed.


 

3. I don't believe Gene actively avoided the SEC nor did Caldwell prefer it, just that their picks fell that way. Joeckel was clearly the BAP, and Cyprien and Gratz were classic Gene 'small school' picks, so I don't see any difference there so far.


They both replaced the same number of starters, at mostly the same positions. I would expect a lot more differences, even after only one year. I'm not sure if Cyprien wasn't a case of fallling in love with a player, Caldwell had all night to work out a trade before round 2 started if he wanted one. I agree that Caldwell would be hard put to draft as poorly as Gene did, but we haven't seen the results yet.


 

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Just trying to diagnose and compare those two bumbling idiots is a waste of time..

 

I know.  Have we really sunk this far?

---