I know.  Have we really sunk this far?

 

The comparison is poor. I can think of a lot of GMs who were worse than Shack. That's not true with Gene.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I blame Vic 

Thats exactly what it was, I still believe Vic left cause he knew we weren't gonna be good and was tired of making excuses.

---

Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

Thats exactly what it was, I still believe Vic left cause he knew we weren't gonna be good and was tired of making excuses.

 

Ha. I don't think it was that at all. But he sure was high on Gene Smith.

---

Ha. I don't think it was that at all. But he sure was high on Gene Smith.

I would agree that other factors (like the packers being storied and good) were at play. But I still think, after reading his column for every day for 7 years, that Vic looked in his 'Crystal Ball' and saw that we were not going anywhere fast. I loved reading Vic, but I really feel like he got tired at the end. The whole 'bibbers' thing and all that, he was getting bitter. Heck we gave him heart troubles (kidding).

---

Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

I would agree that other factors (like the packers being storied and good) were at play. But I still think, after reading his column for every day for 7 years, that Vic looked in his 'Crystal Ball' and saw that we were not going anywhere fast. I loved reading Vic, but I really feel like he got tired at the end. The whole 'bibbers' thing and all that, he was getting bitter. Heck we gave him heart troubles (kidding).

 

Wasn't he high on Gabbert  

---

Wasn't he high on Gabbert  

 

 

Who wasn't though?

---

Gene's Myth

Leftwich was a good player, he actually had courage, and could sit there in the pocket and make all the throws you want. His problem was his windup and being slow. Had he not broke his ankle in 2005, we would probably be singing a different tune about him. He was really good in 2005. Reggie Williams was a bust for a 1st rounder, but he was actually a solid player for us. Too bad drugs ruined his career and life. Blackmon could go down the same path, but he has twice the talent Williams had, and if Blackmon can somehow get over his addiction problems, he will be a star. 

 

Shack is better than Gene. Both were not good, but Shack night and day over Gene. Id take his competitive rosters over the garbage Gene gave us. I can give you a list of players that were drafted under the Shack era that is 4 times longer than Genes list of gems. 

 

Gene Smith is up there with Matt Millan as one of the worst GM in the history of the NFL.  

---

 

You only scratched the surface.


 

In 2013, Dave Caldwell 


 

<div>1) got rid of a serviceable LT who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT.

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left, kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs, one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick.

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick.

 
In 2009 , Gene Smith

 
1) got rid of a serviceable LT (Khalif Barnes) who was arguably the best player on an otherwise poor OL, and used his top draft pick on a LT.

2) also replaced the starting RT (Pashos).

3) parted ways with a good older LB with some tread still left (Mike Peterson), kept the other two starters.

4) let go of two starting CBs (Drayton Florence, Brian Williams), one of whom was a disappointment as a free agency pickup the previous year.

5) replaced a serviceable strong safety with a 2nd round draft pick (albeit by the Lions in 2007).

6) kept the rest of the starting OL, the QB, RB, TE, FS, one DE.

7) the other sometimes starting DE (Q. Groves) was a disappointment as a 2nd round pick the previous year.

8) kept the punter and placekicker. The punt returner was replaced by a rookie draft pick (Mike Thomas).

 
 
There are some differences of course. Gene replaced both WRs while Dave replaced a third CB and a DT. Gene made less use of street free agency. But the parallel between the actions of the two GMs in their first year is stunning.

 

</div>

This is very uniformed. Im sorry, you can do this for any GM. First off, who was better this year at 2 than Joekel? Where was the franchise QB in this draft? Was there really anyone better value wise than him? Plus our line was awful. Sure, we could of drafted Jordan or Ansah, but would they really of made this team that better off? Same for Monroe with Gene, that was the best player on the board with a need, thats an unfair comparison. 

 

Parted ways with aging LB? really? You comparing what Gene did with Peterson to Caldwell with Smith? They both wanted more money than what they were worth and are old. 

 

Florence was over paid, Cox wanted to get paid more than he was worth. Plus Jags offered Cox a deal, he turned it down. 

 

Landry was overrated, Deon Grant i agree we should of kept. 

 

Did you want us to fix every hole in one year, who would we replace the O line and D line problems with? Obviously i think they  have an idea of how bad we are. 

 

Did you want Caldwell to cut the punter and kicker to fit your agenda? Terrible comparison. 

---

You also forgot to mention that both Gene, and Caldwell both believe in building through the draft.

 

So do the Packers, Ravens, 49ers and every other good team in the NFL. Nothing wrong with building through the draft. You just can't miss on your picks. Gene missed badly.

---

;

;

Not saying Geno Smith will be great or elite but Caldwell missed on him. At least bring him in to fight with Gabbert for the spot then you could've cut Henne with his high salary since that's what they seem to like to do. I rather have him than Cyprien. When you don't have a quarterback on your team you have to take flyers in the draft.

---

I would agree that other factors (like the packers being storied and good) were at play. But I still think, after reading his column for every day for 7 years, that Vic looked in his 'Crystal Ball' and saw that we were not going anywhere fast. I loved reading Vic, but I really feel like he got tired at the end. The whole 'bibbers' thing and all that, he was getting bitter. Heck we gave him heart troubles (kidding).

 

Yeah . . I miss Vic a great deal.  He taught me this game, and taught me to love it.  The writing on the Jaguars website without him sure doesn't have the same quality or verve - but really, I'm happy he went on to better things.  He deserved to have better stories to cover than yet another three years of rebuilding.

---

_________________
;

;
"Help is not on the way." - Vic Ketchman

This is very uniformed. Im sorry, you can do this for any GM. First off, who was better this year at 2 than Joekel? Where was the franchise QB in this draft? Was there really anyone better value wise than him? Plus our line was awful. Sure, we could of drafted Jordan or Ansah, but would they really of made this team that better off? Same for Monroe with Gene, that was the best player on the board with a need, thats an unfair comparison. 

 

Parted ways with aging LB? really? You comparing what Gene did with Peterson to Caldwell with Smith? They both wanted more money than what they were worth and are old. 

 

Florence was over paid, Cox wanted to get paid more than he was worth. Plus Jags offered Cox a deal, he turned it down. 

 

Landry was overrated, Deon Grant i agree we should of kept. 

 

Did you want us to fix every hole in one year, who would we replace the O line and D line problems with? Obviously i think they  have an idea of how bad we are. 

 

Did you want Caldwell to cut the punter and kicker to fit your agenda? Terrible comparison. 

 

None of you criticisms address the fact that Caldwell made many of the same moves as Gene.
 Your comment about Daryl Smith and Peterson even confirms it was the same circumstance in that particular case. In my comment I made no judgements about the moves. Feel free to decide for yourself which ones were good and which ones were bad.

 

Of course there were different methods for some of the moves, and while Gene may have filled position A with a draft pick and position B with a free agent, Caldwell may have done the reverse, But that doesn't change the fact that Caldwell and Gene changed exactly the same number of starters at mostly the same positions, both GMs using draft picks and cheap free agency.

And the safety I was referring to was Sensabaugh, not Deon Grant who left two years earlier (hence the Reggie Nelson pick).

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Not saying Geno Smith will be great or elite but Caldwell missed on him. At least bring him in to fight with Gabbert for the spot then you could've cut Henne with his high salary since that's what they seem to like to do. I rather have him than Cyprien. When you don't have a quarterback on your team you have to take flyers in the draft.

 

 Taking a QB at 33 is not a "flyer". You are committing yourself to him.

---

Deon Grant i agree we should of kept. 

 

Grant was gone after the 2006 season. Two years before Gene.

---

The main difference between Gene and Caldwell is that Caldwell straight up admits this team is rebuilding from the ground up, while Gene never admitted as much.

---

Gene never rebuilt.  He repaired, and did a terrible job of it.  And it was a mistake to try to do a repair job, rather than tear the whole thing down.  


In the 2009 draft, Gene Smith traded away a 2010 2nd rounder for a 2009 3rd rounder.  He wanted Derek Cox.  People here argued that it was worth it, because we got him a year earlier.  But we were not at a point where having a player a year earlier would have put us in playoff contention.  He essentially said "There's not going to be anybody worth picking in round 2 in 2010".  

 

Come 2010 -- rather than trade down and risk on missing out on Tyson Alualu, he made the pick.  The value was simply not there for Alualu.  

 

Gene always felt we were closer than we were.  He thought we were a few pieces away from being a contender.  That's why he took Brian Anger in the 3rd round.  He felt if we just had a punter, we'd be competitive.  He never realized just how much we lacked talent.

 

That's something Dave Caldwell is not guilty of.  Caldwell came in, and did not overrate the players we have. 

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Gene never rebuilt.  He repaired, and did a terrible job of it.  And it was a mistake to try to do a repair job, rather than tear the whole thing down.  


In the 2009 draft, Gene Smith traded away a 2010 2nd rounder for a 2009 3rd rounder.  He wanted Derek Cox.  People here argued that it was worth it, because we got him a year earlier.  But we were not at a point where having a player a year earlier would have put us in playoff contention.  He essentially said "There's not going to be anybody worth picking in round 2 in 2010".  

 

Come 2010 -- rather than trade down and risk on missing out on Tyson Alualu, he made the pick.  The value was simply not there for Alualu.  

 

Gene always felt we were closer than we were.  He thought we were a few pieces away from being a contender.  That's why he took Brian Anger in the 3rd round.  He felt if we just had a punter, we'd be competitive.  He never realized just how much we lacked talent.

 

That's something Dave Caldwell is not guilty of.  Caldwell came in, and did not overrate the players we have. 

 

Gene was in full rebuild mode in 2009. The Jags record was better that year than now because Shack left Gene more than Gene left Dave (and a better QB didn't hurt). The fact that he always claimed it would take four years to rebuild shows that his intent wasn't just retooling and he was still getting rid of starters like Henderson and Nelson in 2010. You can't cut everyone the first year, and both Gene and Dave kept the same number of starters.


 

Gene made a lot of mistakes in later years. Dave hasn't had a chance to make those mistakes yet. Hopefully he won't when he does get the chance. One should only compare Dave with Gene at the same point.


 

As you said, Gene had a bad habit of falling in love with players he scouted. I'm not sure Dave isn't also guilty of that. Was Cyprien so much better than other players available in round 2 that a trade down would have been a mistake?


 

Gene was a big part of the roster he inherited, hence his view of it would be more favorable than if he had come from outside the organization.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Shack drafted Leftwhich and Reggie Williams back to back. Smith drafts Gabbert and Justin Blackmon back to back.

 

Both QB's are complete busts and both WR's are druggies who can't stay the #$%^ out of trouble. Shack drafts Barnes and Gene takes Monroe, both end up as overated underachieving tackles.

 

I have never seen a sports franchise get absolutely bent over this bad by poor regimes and bad luck.

Except they are not, because Smith's first two drafts was Monroe and then Alualu.

 

If anything, Smith and and Caldwell has more in common. Smith drafts a LT, Caldwell drafts a LT. Smith drafts a CB with a 2nd round pick (Cox), Caldwell drafts a S with a 2nd round pick. Smith gutted the roster getting rid of older guys like Henderson, Caldwell gutted the roster and getting rid of older guys like Daryl, Greg, etc.


Remains to be seen if Caldwell's draft holds up. If it does, he'll be here long-term. If they don't, he'll be gone just like his two predecessors.

---

Gene's greatest downfall were his trade-ups for players that were not pro bowlers or even close to that.

If you're trading up, you better know that the guy you're targeting will fit your system perfectly, has the ability and the character to be productive for a long time.

---

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=3><B><FONT face=Verdana color=#ff6600 size=4></FONT></B></FONT>

Gene's greatest downfall were his trade-ups for players that were not pro bowlers or even close to that.

If you're trading up, you better know that the guy you're targeting will fit your system perfectly, has the ability and the character to be productive for a long time.

 

I think his biggest downfall was the Free Agents he brought in, and then going after Mularky!? I still don't get that one?

---