The first part of what I wrote was somewhat tongue in cheek but my point remains the same.

If a transgender is in the military, is mentally stable enough to complete what is asked of them, is physically fit enough to carry out the tasks at hand and their superiors are happy with their performance...then what's the problem with them being in the military? There are thousands of fully functional transgender soldiers in the military already, many of whom are honoured to have the privilege to work for their country.

It's interesting how the left and right are so similar at times. I thought the military is a place where it shouldn't matter whether you are a man or a woman , black or white, as long as you can do what is asked of you at an acceptable level.   Surely that would seem like common sense to you guys?

First of all I doubt there are many transgenders in the military, if any at all...Not allowing transgenders in the military has nothing to do with being transgender for the most part...Some sure, but the biggest thing is just as I've said before...The military's infrastructure from the very beginning of America's military has been designed and structured for able bodied men...In recent years, women have become allowed on combat ships in the Navy and in combat roles in the Army and Marines...They are still trying to make the infusing of women into the military work...

Here's the deal...On board Navy ships, they never had to deal with women who had to potty and shower oh and change clothes and sleep now they have to figure out how to have women's berths and heads in different parts of the ships so they dont have to run all over the ships during an emergency situation...They have to figure out where they can put womens heads that are close enough to their berthing compartments that they are private and men don't have to pass through to carry out their normal duties without having to reconfigure the ships...as it has always been, men would pass through berthing compartments all the time doing their regular duties but men and women now cant enter each other's private areas...now they have to figure out how and where to put transgenders so the ship can still function properly in all conditions without having to have construction done to make new berthing compartments and heads for special people... 

Ships have always been designed to use every single square inch of space to maximize its effectiveness, so it's not there is tons of room to house transgenders

---

"Until we can afford prosthetics and equipment for every wounded warrior, we have no business paying for sex changes."

I saw that on Facebook today and it made me think of this thread. And I would add quality care through the VA for veterans. Fix what is broken first then worry about the rest. Not that I agree with sex changes paid for by tax dollars- period. Or any other elective surgery.

---

The first part of what I wrote was somewhat tongue in cheek but my point remains the same.

If a transgender is in the military, is mentally stable enough to complete what is asked of them, is physically fit enough to carry out the tasks at hand and their superiors are happy with their performance...then what's the problem with them being in the military? There are thousands of fully functional transgender soldiers in the military already, many of whom are honoured to have the privilege to work for their country.

It's interesting how the left and right are so similar at times. I thought the military is a place where it shouldn't matter whether you are a man or a woman , black or white, as long as you can do what is asked of you at an acceptable level.   Surely that would seem like common sense to you guys?

First of all I doubt there are many transgenders in the military, if any at all...Not allowing transgenders in the military has nothing to do with being transgender for the most part...Some sure, but the biggest thing is just as I've said before...The military's infrastructure from the very beginning of America's military has been designed and structured for able bodied men...In recent years, women have become allowed on combat ships in the Navy and in combat roles in the Army and Marines...They are still trying to make the infusing of women into the military work...

Here's the deal...On board Navy ships, they never had to deal with women who had to potty and shower oh and change clothes and sleep now they have to figure out how to have women's berths and heads in different parts of the ships so they dont have to run all over the ships during an emergency situation...They have to figure out where they can put womens heads that are close enough to their berthing compartments that they are private and men don't have to pass through to carry out their normal duties without having to reconfigure the ships...as it has always been, men would pass through berthing compartments all the time doing their regular duties but men and women now cant enter each other's private areas...now they have to figure out how and where to put transgenders so the ship can still function properly in all conditions without having to have construction done to make new berthing compartments and heads for special people... 

Ships have always been designed to use every single square inch of space to maximize its effectiveness, so it's not there is tons of room to house transgenders

Theres thousands of them. Not allowing transgender's in the military is 100% about them being transgender.  

Theres already transgenders serving in the navy on ships how many? Probably not a lot. There zero need  to change the inside of she is around purely because there are transgender people in the military. That argument doesn't fly at all.

---

First of all I doubt there are many transgenders in the military, if any at all...Not allowing transgenders in the military has nothing to do with being transgender for the most part...Some sure, but the biggest thing is just as I've said before...The military's infrastructure from the very beginning of America's military has been designed and structured for able bodied men...In recent years, women have become allowed on combat ships in the Navy and in combat roles in the Army and Marines...They are still trying to make the infusing of women into the military work...

Here's the deal...On board Navy ships, they never had to deal with women who had to potty and shower oh and change clothes and sleep now they have to figure out how to have women's berths and heads in different parts of the ships so they dont have to run all over the ships during an emergency situation...They have to figure out where they can put womens heads that are close enough to their berthing compartments that they are private and men don't have to pass through to carry out their normal duties without having to reconfigure the ships...as it has always been, men would pass through berthing compartments all the time doing their regular duties but men and women now cant enter each other's private areas...now they have to figure out how and where to put transgenders so the ship can still function properly in all conditions without having to have construction done to make new berthing compartments and heads for special people... 

Ships have always been designed to use every single square inch of space to maximize its effectiveness, so it's not there is tons of room to house transgenders

Theres thousands of them. Not allowing transgender's in the military is 100% about them being transgender.  

Theres already transgenders serving in the navy on ships how many? Probably not a lot. There zero need  to change the inside of she is around purely because there are transgender people in the military. That argument doesn't fly at all.

I don't know if there are any or not...I never saw a single one when I was in but I also got out in 92/93...with all the fake news being spouted around these days, I dont believe anything I read and not much of anything I see...my point remains the same...The military IS NOT an equal opportunity employer and they cant just put them in with straight men and women to sleep, bathe, and dress

---

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Tweet Storm from the weekend, sorry for the formatting:

"I served in Iraq in 2006. For the first five months I was on a 12 man firebase out in the middle of nowhere in the desert.

Everyday was Groundhog Day. Wake up and do the same patrols, the same shifts, every single day. It was so damn hot. 150° in the gun trucks.

Tracer fire would go overhead occasionally at night. IED's on the road were a daily threat. We got resupplied food every 8 days.

QRF was an hour away. After they made the minimum three gun truck rule after the guys got kidnapped, life got harder.

The stress of being out there and doing the same job every single day eats away at you. The younger guys had problems with that overtime.

Any tiny little personal issue they had suddenly became a mountain. And that [BLEEP] came out on that fire base. And they snapped mentally.

After stepping on each other's nuts living in the same can for five months, guys were at each other's throats. The stress made it worse.

Guys would literally snap over a dear John letter. Their personal issues came out and they were instantly combat ineffective.

Now take someone confused about whether they are a man/woman. Take those psychological and emotional issues and put them in that environment

Take someone who is right off the bat not uniform or part of the same team. Give them special treatment because of their identity.

Take that person, put them in that stressful war environment and watch what happens. It's a [BLEEP] ticking time bomb.

You have to be incredibly tough mentally, physically and emotionally. War is not a [BLEEP] video game. It tests every ounce of your being.

You can't teach someone to be a fearless warrior in a [BLEEP] PowerPoint. You either have it or you don't. You can hack it or you can't.

We had guys who couldn't. When faced with combat situations they crumbled. They had mental and emotional issues. They were a liability.

To be successful at war, you have to become a warrior mentally, physically, and emotionally. You can't fake it and go through the motions.

In war if it comes down to kill or be killed, and you hesitate, you're dead. It's a simple as that. It's not a [BLEEP] video game.

War is no place for people who are mentally, emotionally, or physically confused or in turmoil. You have your [BLEEP] together, or you don't.

And if you don't, you'll just get people needlessly killed. Political correctness has absolutely no place in the military.

Enough for now. This one armed veteran has a business to run. Unlike Iran, the country that took my arm, Obama didn't pay me millions."

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

"Drop your [BLEEP] and grab your socks".

---

The bottom line is TGs have been serving, it hasn't been a problem and, most important, the top brass isn't going to change policy over a freakin' Tweet likely sent to distract from Obamacare repeal failure.

By the by, the amount spent annually for medical care related to TG military personnel is roughly the same as one long weekend POTUS trip to Mar a Lago.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Tweet Storm from the weekend, sorry for the formatting:

"I served in Iraq in 2006. For the first five months I was on a 12 man firebase out in the middle of nowhere in the desert.

Everyday was Groundhog Day. Wake up and do the same patrols, the same shifts, every single day. It was so damn hot. 150° in the gun trucks.

Tracer fire would go overhead occasionally at night. IED's on the road were a daily threat. We got resupplied food every 8 days.

QRF was an hour away. After they made the minimum three gun truck rule after the guys got kidnapped, life got harder.

The stress of being out there and doing the same job every single day eats away at you. The younger guys had problems with that overtime.

Any tiny little personal issue they had suddenly became a mountain. And that [BLEEP] came out on that fire base. And they snapped mentally.

After stepping on each other's nuts living in the same can for five months, guys were at each other's throats. The stress made it worse.

Guys would literally snap over a dear John letter. Their personal issues came out and they were instantly combat ineffective.

Now take someone confused about whether they are a man/woman. Take those psychological and emotional issues and put them in that environment

Take someone who is right off the bat not uniform or part of the same team. Give them special treatment because of their identity.

Take that person, put them in that stressful war environment and watch what happens. It's a [BLEEP] ticking time bomb.

You have to be incredibly tough mentally, physically and emotionally. War is not a [BLEEP] video game. It tests every ounce of your being.

You can't teach someone to be a fearless warrior in a [BLEEP] PowerPoint. You either have it or you don't. You can hack it or you can't.

We had guys who couldn't. When faced with combat situations they crumbled. They had mental and emotional issues. They were a liability.

To be successful at war, you have to become a warrior mentally, physically, and emotionally. You can't fake it and go through the motions.

In war if it comes down to kill or be killed, and you hesitate, you're dead. It's a simple as that. It's not a [BLEEP] video game.

War is no place for people who are mentally, emotionally, or physically confused or in turmoil. You have your [BLEEP] together, or you don't.

And if you don't, you'll just get people needlessly killed. Political correctness has absolutely no place in the military.

Enough for now. This one armed veteran has a business to run. Unlike Iran, the country that took my arm, Obama didn't pay me millions."

This. All day long. But those who don't want to see it never will.

---

Tweet Storm from the weekend, sorry for the formatting:

"I served in Iraq in 2006. For the first five months I was on a 12 man firebase out in the middle of nowhere in the desert.

Everyday was Groundhog Day. Wake up and do the same patrols, the same shifts, every single day. It was so damn hot. 150° in the gun trucks.

Tracer fire would go overhead occasionally at night. IED's on the road were a daily threat. We got resupplied food every 8 days.

QRF was an hour away. After they made the minimum three gun truck rule after the guys got kidnapped, life got harder.

The stress of being out there and doing the same job every single day eats away at you. The younger guys had problems with that overtime.

Any tiny little personal issue they had suddenly became a mountain. And that [BLEEP] came out on that fire base. And they snapped mentally.

After stepping on each other's nuts living in the same can for five months, guys were at each other's throats. The stress made it worse.

Guys would literally snap over a dear John letter. Their personal issues came out and they were instantly combat ineffective.

Now take someone confused about whether they are a man/woman. Take those psychological and emotional issues and put them in that environment

Take someone who is right off the bat not uniform or part of the same team. Give them special treatment because of their identity.

Take that person, put them in that stressful war environment and watch what happens. It's a [BLEEP] ticking time bomb.

You have to be incredibly tough mentally, physically and emotionally. War is not a [BLEEP] video game. It tests every ounce of your being.

You can't teach someone to be a fearless warrior in a [BLEEP] PowerPoint. You either have it or you don't. You can hack it or you can't.

We had guys who couldn't. When faced with combat situations they crumbled. They had mental and emotional issues. They were a liability.

To be successful at war, you have to become a warrior mentally, physically, and emotionally. You can't fake it and go through the motions.

In war if it comes down to kill or be killed, and you hesitate, you're dead. It's a simple as that. It's not a [BLEEP] video game.

War is no place for people who are mentally, emotionally, or physically confused or in turmoil. You have your [BLEEP] together, or you don't.

And if you don't, you'll just get people needlessly killed. Political correctness has absolutely no place in the military.

Enough for now. This one armed veteran has a business to run. Unlike Iran, the country that took my arm, Obama didn't pay me millions."

The most important part of this was "You either have it or you don't. You can hack it or you can't."  

If they can hack it then I don't see what the problem is. They can either do the job like everyone else, if they can they should be allowed , if they can't they shouldn't.

---

Theres thousands of them. Not allowing transgender's in the military is 100% about them being transgender.  

Theres already transgenders serving in the navy on ships how many? Probably not a lot. There zero need  to change the inside of she is around purely because there are transgender people in the military. That argument doesn't fly at all.

I don't know if there are any or not...I never saw a single one when I was in but I also got out in 92/93...with all the fake news being spouted around these days, I dont believe anything I read and not much of anything I see...my point remains the same...The military IS NOT an equal opportunity employer and they cant just put them in with straight men and women to sleep, bathe, and dress

But there are already lesbian and gay military members who live/sleep/bathe/dress with the sex they are attracted to with no issues as long as they are competent at their job. What difference does it make?  

If they can do the job they can do the job. In my eyes if a transgender person meets all the requirements for the job, is willing to work and die for their country and is willing to use the same accommodation and facilities as everyone else then I'd have no problem giving them the privilege the same as everyone else.  

I mean I guess I can see the mental side of things. You could make the case that due to their identity issues that they might perform poorly or adjust badly to their role. That would be the same as everyone else though, If they can't do the job they shouldn't be there. Granted I have no military experience and a limited knowledge of the US military but shouldn't the military be as simple as doing your job and not making a fuss regardless of who you are or how you look?

---

But there are already lesbian and gay military members who live/sleep/bathe/dress with the sex they are attracted to with no issues as long as they are competent at their job. What difference does it make?  

If they can do the job they can do the job. In my eyes if a transgender person meets all the requirements for the job, is willing to work and die for their country and is willing to use the same accommodation and facilities as everyone else then I'd have no problem giving them the privilege the same as everyone else.  

I mean I guess I can see the mental side of things. You could make the case that due to their identity issues that they might perform poorly or adjust badly to their role. That would be the same as everyone else though, If they can't do the job they shouldn't be there. Granted I have no military experience and a limited knowledge of the US military but shouldn't the military be as simple as doing your job and not making a fuss regardless of who you are or how you look?

Gay members, while being a distraction as well, are a totally different issue.

The problem is that transgender people are not willing to use the same "accommodation and facilities" as everyone else.  Take Bradly "Chelsea" Manning for example.  He seems to think that he's a woman now.  However his DNA as well as his personal "private parts" dictate that he uses the men's facilities.  It doesn't matter what he "feels" or "believes" or "lives as".  He doesn't (and shouldn't) get any special treatment based on the lifestyle that he chose.

Regarding the military and how it works, it's really not as simple as "doing your job and not making a fuss".  Yes in some aspects of the military, it is kind of like a "normal job", but there are many aspects where it isn't.  Wrong_box pointed out above what life is like aboard a Navy ship.

The military is no place for a social experiment or political correctness.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

The military is no place for "special treatment'" It's a serious affair. No place for mental patients that can't even figure out whether they're a [BLEEP] man or woman. What's next? Do we let people with cerebral palsy in too? Let's just let everyone in. [BLEEP] it.

---

But there are already lesbian and gay military members who live/sleep/bathe/dress with the sex they are attracted to with no issues as long as they are competent at their job. What difference does it make?  

If they can do the job they can do the job. In my eyes if a transgender person meets all the requirements for the job, is willing to work and die for their country and is willing to use the same accommodation and facilities as everyone else then I'd have no problem giving them the privilege the same as everyone else.  

I mean I guess I can see the mental side of things. You could make the case that due to their identity issues that they might perform poorly or adjust badly to their role. That would be the same as everyone else though, If they can't do the job they shouldn't be there. Granted I have no military experience and a limited knowledge of the US military but shouldn't the military be as simple as doing your job and not making a fuss regardless of who you are or how you look?

Gay members, while being a distraction as well, are a totally different issue.

The problem is that transgender people are not willing to use the same "accommodation and facilities" as everyone else.  Take Bradly "Chelsea" Manning for example.  He seems to think that he's a woman now.  However his DNA as well as his personal "private parts" dictate that he uses the men's facilities.  It doesn't matter what he "feels" or "believes" or "lives as".  He doesn't (and shouldn't) get any special treatment based on the lifestyle that he chose.

Regarding the military and how it works, it's really not as simple as "doing your job and not making a fuss".  Yes in some aspects of the military, it is kind of like a "normal job", but there are many aspects where it isn't.  Wrong_box pointed out above what life is like aboard a Navy ship.

The military is no place for a social experiment or political correctness.

But there are already serving and hard working transgender members in the military who do a great job with little issue, some in important roles too.  Would you have them removed from their roles even if they have no issue and their superiors and co-workers have zero issue with them?

So if Bradley Manning gets the full sex change surgery where should he/she go the bathroom?

---

You're crazy if you think their superiors or co-workers have no issue with it.

---

You're crazy if you think their superiors or co-workers have no issue with it.

Where is the evidence that they do?

---

JackCity, you have absolutely no clue how the United States military works nor the mindset of the majority of the people in it. This is not your fault and I'm not bashing you for it, it's just a fact. That being said, don't speak of things you don't understand as if they are fact. Most of us here who are speaking against this, no matter our personal feelings or beliefs on the transgender subject have served and are telling you- it's not a good idea.

Yes, there are trans people serving now, but the military doesn't cater to their wanting to use bathrooms and sleep in the same barracks as the gender they identify with. They would have to be specially accommodated if it were to ever happen because the majority of the military wouldn't put up with it. I know you and others here don't believe that, but I'm telling you- and others here are telling you- it's not going to fly. Not for a long time.

Some here have pointed out there are now women who hold combat jobs as if that's a litmus test of success. Just because it's happening doesn't mean there aren't serious issues. There are men who don't accept or trust them at all and never will but those same men will accept women in combat before they accept trans people in their barracks and bathrooms.

---

JackCity, you have absolutely no clue how the United States military works nor the mindset of the majority of the people in it. This is not your fault and I'm not bashing you for it, it's just a fact. That being said, don't speak of things you don't understand as if they are fact. Most of us here who are speaking against this, no matter our personal feelings or beliefs on the transgender subject have served and are telling you- it's not a good idea.

Yes, there are trans people serving now, but the military doesn't cater to their wanting to use bathrooms and sleep in the same barracks as the gender they identify with. They would have to be specially accommodated if it were to ever happen because the majority of the military wouldn't put up with it. I know you and others here don't believe that, but I'm telling you- and others here are telling you- it's not going to fly. Not for a long time.

Some here have pointed out there are now women who hold combat jobs as if that's a litmus test of success. Just because it's happening doesn't mean there aren't serious issues. There are men who don't accept or trust them at all and never will but those same men will accept women in combat before they accept trans people in their barracks and bathrooms.

All fair points , I know next to nothing about it and probably am heavily slanted it based on my view.  

I guess my point boils down to that I don't think they should be banned for being different if they can do the job to the standard needed. As for the accommodation part  there wouldn't really be any lee way with what they identify as would there be. So even if a guy has long blonde hair and wears thongs , he'd still have to be in the mens barracks, I could see how that would be uncomfortable. 

So with the current transgenders in the military would you have them removed?

---

JackCity, you have absolutely no clue how the United States military works nor the mindset of the majority of the people in it. This is not your fault and I'm not bashing you for it, it's just a fact. That being said, don't speak of things you don't understand as if they are fact. Most of us here who are speaking against this, no matter our personal feelings or beliefs on the transgender subject have served and are telling you- it's not a good idea.

Yes, there are trans people serving now, but the military doesn't cater to their wanting to use bathrooms and sleep in the same barracks as the gender they identify with. They would have to be specially accommodated if it were to ever happen because the majority of the military wouldn't put up with it. I know you and others here don't believe that, but I'm telling you- and others here are telling you- it's not going to fly. Not for a long time.

Some here have pointed out there are now women who hold combat jobs as if that's a litmus test of success. Just because it's happening doesn't mean there aren't serious issues. There are men who don't accept or trust them at all and never will but those same men will accept women in combat before they accept trans people in their barracks and bathrooms.

All fair points , I know next to nothing about it and probably am heavily slanted it based on my view.  

I guess my point boils down to that I don't think they should be banned for being different if they can do the job to the standard needed. As for the accommodation part  there wouldn't really be any lee way with what they identify as would there be. So even if a guy has long blonde hair and wears thongs , he'd still have to be in the mens barracks, I could see how that would be uncomfortable. 

So with the current transgenders in the military would you have them removed?

In the military you cut your hair according to the book and wear the undergarments they tell you to. You are also what they tell you to be when they tell you to be it and you do it without questioning. There is no "different" in the military, you are all equally worthless in their eyes.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

JackCity, you have absolutely no clue how the United States military works nor the mindset of the majority of the people in it. This is not your fault and I'm not bashing you for it, it's just a fact. That being said, don't speak of things you don't understand as if they are fact. Most of us here who are speaking against this, no matter our personal feelings or beliefs on the transgender subject have served and are telling you- it's not a good idea.

Yes, there are trans people serving now, but the military doesn't cater to their wanting to use bathrooms and sleep in the same barracks as the gender they identify with. They would have to be specially accommodated if it were to ever happen because the majority of the military wouldn't put up with it. I know you and others here don't believe that, but I'm telling you- and others here are telling you- it's not going to fly. Not for a long time.

Some here have pointed out there are now women who hold combat jobs as if that's a litmus test of success. Just because it's happening doesn't mean there aren't serious issues. There are men who don't accept or trust them at all and never will but those same men will accept women in combat before they accept trans people in their barracks and bathrooms.

Good explanation. It's more than just professionalism. We can all hold 9 to 5 jobs and work alongside others while maintaining a professional attitude, but in the military it goes beyond that. There is no clocking out and going home to do our own thing. We share intimate spaces with the people we work with. While it's easy to pass judgement and decree from the sanctuary of our private spaces, it's quite another to live it. I'm sure most of those demanding transgenders serve in the military would not be comfortable with one whom they have a working relationship sleeping, eating, changing clothes and using the bathrooms in their own homes.

---

JackCity, you have absolutely no clue how the United States military works nor the mindset of the majority of the people in it. This is not your fault and I'm not bashing you for it, it's just a fact. That being said, don't speak of things you don't understand as if they are fact. Most of us here who are speaking against this, no matter our personal feelings or beliefs on the transgender subject have served and are telling you- it's not a good idea.

Yes, there are trans people serving now, but the military doesn't cater to their wanting to use bathrooms and sleep in the same barracks as the gender they identify with. They would have to be specially accommodated if it were to ever happen because the majority of the military wouldn't put up with it. I know you and others here don't believe that, but I'm telling you- and others here are telling you- it's not going to fly. Not for a long time.

Some here have pointed out there are now women who hold combat jobs as if that's a litmus test of success. Just because it's happening doesn't mean there aren't serious issues. There are men who don't accept or trust them at all and never will but those same men will accept women in combat before they accept trans people in their barracks and bathrooms.

Good explanation. It's more than just professionalism. We can all hold 9 to 5 jobs and work alongside others while maintaining a professional attitude, but in the military it goes beyond that. There is no clocking out and going home to do our own thing. We share intimate spaces with the people we work with. While it's easy to pass judgement and decree from the sanctuary of our private spaces, it's quite another to live it. I'm sure most of those demanding transgenders serve in the military would not be comfortable with one whom they have a working relationship sleeping, eating, changing clothes and using the bathrooms in their own homes.

I wouldn't be so sure, and I also wouldn't be so sure anyone serving with a transgendered person would even know it.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley