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Racial Bias in Schools

#1

A new GAO report has been finalized but not made public that examines whether black students are disproportionately punished when compared to whites, no matter the economic environment of the school. Interesting that the Obama era guidance that was mentioned in the Parkland shooting has links to this very study. I would need to read the study when made public to see what correlation between racial bias and discipline disparities are mapped out. There is no dispute that disparity exists, but why? It would appear on the surface that the study may be a pretty broad stroke attempt at answering many questions/reasons for disparity. The linked story does speak to something that caught my eye, especially in regards to the newer more violent school culture...

"And all of the school districts reported that while they embraced the opportunity to revise their approach to discipline, their biggest barrier was not student behavior. It was the lack of resources to tackle cases of trauma and mental health issues that increasingly plague the nation’s children."


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/04/us/po...&smtyp=cur
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#2

I suppose my questions would be:

1.) Isn't the school's staff's demographics often reflective of the students'?
2.) Are different activities categorized as the same offense? I.E. Yelling profanities at the teacher versus not returning to your seat.
3.) Does the study factor in disciplinary history?
4.) What were the students suspended for?

I know you can't answer these, but it seems like the article should considered these. Until it's made public, I'm skeptical of the findings. This is a lot like police brutality. It's typically based on proportion-to-population when the proportion-to-crimes is the important factor. The form of punishment in the article was suspension, but without knowing if they received more / less warnings then their white counterparts, it's impossible to know if it was racially motivated.
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#3

(04-05-2018, 12:51 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: I suppose my questions would be:

1.) Isn't the school's staff's demographics often reflective of the students'?
2.) Are different activities categorized as the same offense? I.E. Yelling profanities at the teacher versus not returning to your seat.
3.) Does the study factor in disciplinary history?
4.) What were the students suspended for?

I know you can't answer these, but it seems like the article should considered these. Until it's made public, I'm skeptical of the findings. This is a lot like police brutality. It's typically based on proportion-to-population when the proportion-to-crimes is the important factor. The form of punishment in the article was suspension, but without knowing if they received more / less warnings then their white counterparts, it's impossible to know if it was racially motivated.

I'm on the same page. There are alotof factors and questions that need to be addressed. I don't think it would be fair to paint with such a broad brush. Another part of the equation is the dangers involved in handling situations differently because of perceived biases, such as the incident in Parkland where they adopted or were pressured by the government to use different approaches to discipline based on factors such as background, skin color, etc.
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#4

I just pulled my kids out of our assigned school in favor of charter.

My son was bored and needed more challenge, and daughter was learning despite having gone through four teachers in a single year. One quit/retired with next to no notice, a temp was forced to fill the gap, the next was fired when she couldn't keep order (a student soiled himself in class on purpose just to disrupt, among other things,) and a final teacher to complete the year. If she weren't such a good student I doubt she would have learned a single thing - for most students in that class it was likely a wasted year of their lives and growth.

Administration is key. It's all in how the school is run and the teachers are empowered and backed.

Duval Admin is bottom shelf. They enrich themselves and add bloat, and are a disservice to their teachers... and most of all, their most precious asset: their students.

Unfortunately, the same is true for many districts and counties all across this nation.
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#5

(04-05-2018, 01:30 PM)B2hibry Wrote:
(04-05-2018, 12:51 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: I suppose my questions would be:

1.) Isn't the school's staff's demographics often reflective of the students'?
2.) Are different activities categorized as the same offense? I.E. Yelling profanities at the teacher versus not returning to your seat.
3.) Does the study factor in disciplinary history?
4.) What were the students suspended for?

I know you can't answer these, but it seems like the article should considered these. Until it's made public, I'm skeptical of the findings. This is a lot like police brutality. It's typically based on proportion-to-population when the proportion-to-crimes is the important factor. The form of punishment in the article was suspension, but without knowing if they received more / less warnings then their white counterparts, it's impossible to know if it was racially motivated.

I'm on the same page. There are alotof factors and questions that need to be addressed. I don't think it would be fair to paint with such a broad brush. Another part of the equation is the dangers involved in handling situations differently because of perceived biases, such as the incident in Parkland where they adopted or were pressured by the government to use different approaches to discipline based on factors such as background, skin color, etc.

The more broad the conclusion / evidence, the less likely I am to accept its findings.

You're right though. They'll undoubtedly ramp up the punishments after Parkland. If the punishments go up, then the results will also look a lot worse too. 

There's just too much missing to really figure out what's going on.
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#6

I think racial connections (or disconnections) between teacher and student work both ways. I couldn't get a word of feedback about my child's progress from a particular teacher. I'd never experienced that before with any of her teachers.

Sure, it could have been because others needed more attention or there was more feedback to give that other, struggling kids/parents/guardians needed to hear. Or, it could have just been because she didn't care because she knew she was going to walk away and leave the students behind.

But giving attention to those who need help most doesn't exclude those doing well. Whether you're doing well or not on the journey, everyone needs a map to log their current location and a compass to determine direction to ensure they're on the right path.

Feedback, both positive and negative, is crucial.

But most of all, it has to be substantive and accurate for proper assessment.

"Doing fine" doesn't cut it.

Everyone needs feedback no matter how good or bad you're doing. It's the only information that you can take action on in an informed way. Spare me the "classrooms are too big" nonsense and that only the most in need get feedback. I've never met or had a good teacher that wasn't able to help all their students effectively.
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#7

I feel like they came up with data to support an argument they already decided on.
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#8

(04-05-2018, 06:48 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: I feel like they came up with data to support an argument they already decided on.

Isn't this how most studies work?
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#9

(04-06-2018, 01:12 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote:
(04-05-2018, 06:48 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: I feel like they came up with data to support an argument they already decided on.

Isn't this how most studies work?

It's confirmation bias and destroys the credibility of any study.
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#10

(04-05-2018, 06:48 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: I feel like they came up with data to support an argument they already decided on.

It does have that tone but until it’s made public I can’t say one way or another. It’ll be interesting to see what data and thought process was used to conclude their findings. If it goes the way that some independent incarceration studies have gone, this report may lack credibility. It has that “appease a subsect since they gave us cash” feel to it.
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#11

(04-06-2018, 01:12 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote:
(04-05-2018, 06:48 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: I feel like they came up with data to support an argument they already decided on.

Isn't this how most studies work?

Cha Ching !!!  exactly.
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#12

(04-06-2018, 08:28 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote:
(04-06-2018, 01:12 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: Isn't this how most studies work?

It's confirmation bias and destroys the credibility of any study.

I totally agree which is why studies are about as useful as statistics and polls. Ask the right questions of the right people of the right demographic or socioeconomic group, etc., and you get the (right) answer you were looking for.
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