"What a surprise!" said no one ever.

Fowler is a very solid rotational defensive lineman. Know who else was a very solid rotational defensive lineman? Tyson Alualu. If Fowler's not starting at a high level, he's not worth $14M.

Don't even try that comparison. Alualu was a mediocre DT. He was drafted to provide an interior pass rush which he never did. He wasn't all that great against the run either. He wouldn't start on most teams.

Fowler plays an elite position as an edge rusher, and is still very young and improving. He's not starting because the Jags have two Pro Bowl players at DE, but he's better than many starters. He was tied for 30th-35th in sacks in part time play and not all of those ahead of him were edge rushers. Since there are 32 teams, he would improve the pass rush on a majority of them.

He'd be extended for $14M were he on just about any other team, but not on a team with Campbell and Ngakoue and a looming cap squeeze in 2019.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

He'd be extended for $14M were he on just about any other team, but not on a team with Campbell and Ngakoue and a looming cap squeeze in 2019.

If he were on just about any other team he would get keyed on more in pass pro, and his secondary wouldn't force so many coverage sacks. His sack total would probably be commensurate his pressure total, which was not impressive. He is what he is, a high effort garbage man type that cleans up after other guys make a mess. No smart person is paying that 14+ mil.

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Dante Fowler has not lived up to the hype. Neither will Taven Bryan. These Florida Gator players are basically forced upon the Jaguars in part by the ownership suddenly needing the power of the local media to knock down pre-fabricated rumors, and, in part, in order to placate the inappropriately influential local media who drive home to the Gainesville Times Union each afternoon to worship at the feet of their T-- T--ow shrines. 

Let's not forget...Gene Frenette still owes Wayne Weaver $26 million dollars for Derrick Harvey, for example.

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What would happen if the Jags let him walk, for whatever reason, take the low 3rd, and he winds up with a team like Pittsburgh, Kansas City or Baltimore and the guy puts up 15+ sacks??

He doesn't get enough pressures at this time to be that kind of guy. He had something like 19 pressures for 8 sacks last year. He converted at a way higher rate than players normally do. So last season looks like luck for him. And without the dominance of this line, I don't think he is a double digit sack guy. We will get to see more this year, but his play seemed more opportunistic, than actual play-making.

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"What a surprise!" said no one ever.

Fowler is a very solid rotational defensive lineman. Know who else was a very solid rotational defensive lineman? Tyson Alualu. If Fowler's not starting at a high level, he's not worth $14M.

Don't even try that comparison. Alualu was a mediocre DT. He was drafted to provide an interior pass rush which he never did. He wasn't all that great against the run either. He wouldn't start on most teams.

Fowler plays an elite position as an edge rusher, and is still very young and improving. He's not starting because the Jags have two Pro Bowl players at DE, but he's better than many starters. He was tied for 30th-35th in sacks in part time play and not all of those ahead of him were edge rushers. Since there are 32 teams, he would improve the pass rush on a majority of them.

He'd be extended for $14M were he on just about any other team, but not on a team with Campbell and Ngakoue and a looming cap squeeze in 2019.

Watching Leonard run thru alualu last season made me so happy that he wasn't pulling that nonsense with us anymore.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

Dante Fowler has not lived up to the hype. Neither will Taven Bryan. These Florida Gator players are basically forced upon the Jaguars in part by the ownership suddenly needing the power of the local media to knock down pre-fabricated rumors, and, in part, in order to placate the inappropriately influential local media who drive home to the Gainesville Times Union each afternoon to worship at the feet of their T-- T--ow shrines. 

Let's not forget...Gene Frenette still owes Wayne Weaver $26 million dollars for Derrick Harvey, for example.

My god your tinfoil hat must have crispy corners.

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Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

I would try to trade him for a 2020 first round draft choice.

Lol.

They would be lucky to get a 4th for him.

Are you kidding? If he could work out a long term deal with a team as part of the condition, the absolute lowest we would get for him is a 2nd rounder and that would be low. I ask for a first and stand pat until I have no other options. I think a future first is extremely viable considering that they are getting a young pass rusher coming off a 10 sack season in a reserve role. He will be extremely coveted if he hits the free agent market. I would try to work with him and see where he would like to go. Then, I contact those teams, tell them he is willing to work out a long term deal with them if he is traded and start trade negotiations. It's a win-win. They get a great young player and we get a first round pick.

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Given that we probably knew we weren't going to pick up his option before the draft, should we have spent a high pick on a speedy edge pass rusher?

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This says more about the value of the option vs. The franchise tag than fowlers value as a player

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If a deal isn’t done now, I see zero chance he signs a new contract at the end of the season.

He’ll be after a big free agent pay day - same as ARob, except I don’t think the franchise tag is even an option in his case.

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He'd be extended for $14M were he on just about any other team, but not on a team with Campbell and Ngakoue and a looming cap squeeze in 2019.

If he were on just about any other team he would get keyed on more in pass pro, and his secondary wouldn't force so many coverage sacks. His sack total would probably be commensurate his pressure total, which was not impressive. He is what he is, a high effort garbage man type that cleans up after other guys make a mess. No smart person is paying that 14+ mil.

Hyperbole much?  Fowler is no Von Miller, but you are stretching here to suit your prior Fowler narrative.

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Like so much of the question marks around the D-Line, this will play itself out on the field in 2018.

Let him earn that second contract.  I like the move, and it's what I posted was the way to approach it weeks ago in the other thread about Fowler.

This year we get to have a beast rotation, and next year we can figure out who gets paid and who has to move on.

Agreed

We can always tag him in 2019 if we want.  $14m option is pretty high but he did make good progress for a young 23 year old.  Heck, AJ Cann was already 23 when we drafted both of them back in 2015.

Keep in mind the tag for a DE next year will probably be around $17.5 mil. I don't see that as a realistic option especially knowing they could have picked up the option for $3.5 mil less.

That said, I don't see how this can be called a mistake. When you're the 3rd overall pick you better be making the Pro Bowl to earn your option year. Dante is not even starting. 

Yeah he has started 1 game hes not at this point worth 15mil

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No Fun

I think a lot of this is about the salary cap in 2019.   We have to make some difficult decisions, because if we do nothing, we are way over the cap in 2019.  

If we pick up the option, we pay him $14 million for 2019.   On the other hand, if we sign him to a long term contract, he can make more money AND have a lower cap number in 2019.  That's where a long term deal should be attractive to both sides.  

The Taven Bryan pick makes so much sense when you consider the moves we will have to make on the defensive line in 2019.   

My gut feeling is, Fowler won't be here in 2019.  So let's enjoy 2018.

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They need to find a way to keep Fowler long term. He's going to be a good Jaguar for years to come.

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I’m hoping that with The good faith Jax had in Fowler and signed him to a fully guaranteed contact AFTER his injury in rookie OTAs in 2015..he’d cut us a little slack. Give him a good signing bonus and we might can keep the gang together a little longer

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"Expect for the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes."

 

I’m hoping that with The good faith Jax had in Fowler and signed him to a fully guaranteed contact AFTER his injury in rookie OTAs in 2015..he’d cut us a little slack. Give him a good signing bonus and we might can keep the gang together a little longer

He might, but why should he when he can go somewhere else making more money as a starter?

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'02

I’m hoping that with The good faith Jax had in Fowler and signed him to a fully guaranteed contact AFTER his injury in rookie OTAs in 2015..he’d cut us a little slack. Give him a good signing bonus and we might can keep the gang together a little longer

He might, but why should he when he can go somewhere else making more money as a starter?

Because he can make just as much money here and then same reasons we are able to lure other free agents.

Notoriety of the defense, no state tax, he won't have to move, he has coughlin here who free agents respect, he knows our team is a Superbowl contender, he's familiar with our other defensive players...

And again, there is still the option of the franchise tag.

If Dante wants a new deal, it's all up to Dante to earn it. If he plays as well or better than he did last year, I see no way the team doesn't find a way to keep him, even if it means making a tough cut on an older player.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

He might, but why should he when he can go somewhere else making more money as a starter?

Because he can make just as much money here and then same reasons we are able to lure other free agents.

Notoriety of the defense, no state tax, he won't have to move, he has coughlin here who free agents respect, he knows our team is a Superbowl contender, he's familiar with our other defensive players...

And again, there is still the option of the franchise tag.

If Dante wants a new deal, it's all up to Dante to earn it. If he plays as well or better than he did last year, I see no way the team doesn't find a way to keep him, even if it means making a tough cut on an older player.

He can't get or make as much here pretty much no matter what. I think 4 D linemen are gone after this year, we have too much salary and too many great young players needing new contracts the next two years. Smoot, Bryan, and a new NT will probably be starting with Yan in 2019 because the guys they replace are 45 million in cap money and we're 44 million over.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Because he can make just as much money here and then same reasons we are able to lure other free agents.

Notoriety of the defense, no state tax, he won't have to move, he has coughlin here who free agents respect, he knows our team is a Superbowl contender, he's familiar with our other defensive players...

And again, there is still the option of the franchise tag.

If Dante wants a new deal, it's all up to Dante to earn it. If he plays as well or better than he did last year, I see no way the team doesn't find a way to keep him, even if it means making a tough cut on an older player.

He can't get or make as much here pretty much no matter what. I think 4 D linemen are gone after this year, we have too much salary and too many great young players needing new contracts the next two years. Smoot, Bryan, and a new NT will probably be starting with Yan in 2019 because the guys they replace are 45 million in cap money and we're 44 million over.

Then our window of opportunity just slammed shut after this season. It's either win now or we're screwed in this case.

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Because he can make just as much money here and then same reasons we are able to lure other free agents.

Notoriety of the defense, no state tax, he won't have to move, he has coughlin here who free agents respect, he knows our team is a Superbowl contender, he's familiar with our other defensive players...

And again, there is still the option of the franchise tag.

If Dante wants a new deal, it's all up to Dante to earn it. If he plays as well or better than he did last year, I see no way the team doesn't find a way to keep him, even if it means making a tough cut on an older player.

He can't get or make as much here pretty much no matter what. I think 4 D linemen are gone after this year, we have too much salary and too many great young players needing new contracts the next two years. Smoot, Bryan, and a new NT will probably be starting with Yan in 2019 because the guys they replace are 45 million in cap money and we're 44 million over.

Yes he can. Plenty have people have already listed several aging players that could be moved to save money.

Malik, dareus, Campbell, church, gip, we just saved 2 mil by drafting a late Rd punter as well.

Again, if Dante plays well enough, why would the team keep paying huge cash for an aging player when they can reallocate that to the 24 year old pass rusher?

A smart team wouldn't. I love some of those players, and not all of them will go. The team will have to make some tough decisions, but it's all contingent on those players performance this season with their age and cost factored in.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Face it, Fowler is good as gone after this season.

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Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

I wonder how he would play 34 olb. 

Love the idea of a RB having to pick up a blitzing Fowler!

Fowler is a pass rusher and would be lost trying to cover a rb in space. and we'd never get to see a rb "pick up a blitzing Fowler" since we literally blitz less than any other team in the league.

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