(07-20-2018, 01:57 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:

(07-20-2018, 01:21 PM)mikesez Wrote: 1.  I know that quote is not in the Constitution, but I also wasn't the first one in this thread to cite "inalienable rights".  So we were discussing both documents.
2.  Notice you still use the first person plural pronoun - not once, but three times.

WE notice certain things about how the world and other humans work
WE find that a single creator of the world and all humans is the simplest explanation
WE find that equal and inalienable rights exist for each human in light of these findings.. but which rights are on and off the list could be a never ending conversation.

It's not that these decisions are wrong.  These are great decisions to make! Our ancestors made them, and we should as well.  But they are not inevitable, and many societies have been organized around different ideas.

I understand you know the difference, just pointing out that you should be clearer in your writing. You spend so much time babbling that your points become lost in the word vomit. 

Self-evident. Need no explanation or justification. No, we don't make those decisions, they are inexorable; and the intention of the actual Constitution is to forbid the government from encroaching on our freedoms any more than the absolute minimum necessary to have a functioning society. And many lesser societies have been organized around lesser ideals with lesser results, that's why we have to protect and defend our values and liberties whenever and wherever they are threatened.

The intent of the US Constitution was to create a stronger federal government than what came before, but still finite in its power. The framers were limiting what the federal government could do, but not necessarily intending those limits to also apply to state and local governments.  So state and local governments often could do the things listed in Article I Section 9.  They could deprive citizens of the rights listed in the Bill of Rights, both slave and free, black and white.  Some states had established religions.  Some states had religious tests for office holders.  Some states did not guarantee the right to own a gun.  Some states did not guarantee native born children of immigrants the right to vote.  These are just examples.

---