Well maybe you can deal with that issue once you trumpettes have locked ivanka up.

---

I expect a ballerina-esque retort of epic proportions.

Even more than usual.  I think his spin makes him so dizzy he actually believes the nonsense.

It's been a while. 
maybe I don't really have a reply to that.

---

The destruction of the African-American male as both father and contributing member of society. Tough stuff I know, but the truth usually is.

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.

Typical lefty trying obligate me to solve the problems he created.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

---

The destruction of the African-American male as both father and contributing member of society. Tough stuff I know, but the truth usually is.

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.

I feel like that's a simple answer.

Welfare.

In 1965, black families had only 25% of children out-of-wedlock. In 2011, that number is 72% of children. The Great Society programs, for example, incentivized poverty and made being jobless and unmarried more lucrative. In the 1960s, black Americans faced discrimination and a constant uphill battle in almost every part of their lives. They were afforded an immediate opportunity to gain some sort of financial relief. Who would blame them for gaming the system then? However, over time, this marriage-less and fatherless system became deeply embedded within their community. This, in my opinion, contributed to the downfall of black families. 

From the very moment the Great Society programs are enacted, the rate of out-of-wedlock and unmarried black families plummeted.

---

It's been a while. 
maybe I don't really have a reply to that.

---

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.

Typical lefty trying obligate me to solve the problems he created.

I said the conversation could end here.

---

---

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.

I feel like that's a simple answer.

Welfare.

In 1965, black families had only 25% of children out-of-wedlock. In 2011, that number is 72% of children. The Great Society programs, for example, incentivized poverty and made being jobless and unmarried more lucrative. In the 1960s, black Americans faced discrimination and a constant uphill battle in almost every part of their lives. They were afforded an immediate opportunity to gain some sort of financial relief. Who would blame them for gaming the system then? However, over time, this marriage-less and fatherless system became deeply embedded within their community. This, in my opinion, contributed to the downfall of black families. 

From the very moment the Great Society programs are enacted, the rate of out-of-wedlock and unmarried black families plummeted.

If it's welfare, are the 1996 reforms to welfare fixing the problem, or not?

---

It's been a while. 
maybe I don't really have a reply to that.

---

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.

The problem happens with poor whites too. It is more significant with African American males because the percentage who are poor is much higher. The current welfare system encourages single motherhood because the benefits either disappear or are seriously curtailed if the mother is married. A lack of marriage means no legal responsibility for the male, making it much easier for an unmarried father to abandon his family.

I've seen it happen where a couple that had a kid together avoided marriage for a while so the mother could collect some government benefit.  And that's just the one case where they admitted it.
I mean I think it's outrageous too but how can you change the law to discourage that without making matters worse?

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

---

So you've made a problem statement.
The conversation can end here, or you can try to explain why the problem happened (why African Americans and not also poor whites for instance), or you can propose a solution.
You're kind of leaving me hanging.

I feel like that's a simple answer.

Welfare.

In 1965, black families had only 25% of children out-of-wedlock. In 2011, that number is 72% of children. The Great Society programs, for example, incentivized poverty and made being jobless and unmarried more lucrative. In the 1960s, black Americans faced discrimination and a constant uphill battle in almost every part of their lives. They were afforded an immediate opportunity to gain some sort of financial relief. Who would blame them for gaming the system then? However, over time, this marriage-less and fatherless system became deeply embedded within their community. This, in my opinion, contributed to the downfall of black families. 

From the very moment the Great Society programs are enacted, the rate of out-of-wedlock and unmarried black families plummeted.

Welfare is a special kind of disaster, but wouldn't you attribute the actions of whites before and during the Civil Rights era to the decline? A few key points here:

1. Neighborhoods were drawn up in ways to keep black families out of the desirable areas
   
2. Real estate agents colluded to refuse to even show houses in "white" parts of town to black individuals
   
3. Banks and mortgage companies engaged in redlining to make sure that black families couldn't afford houses in the nicer areas
   
4. Schools remained segregated long after Brown v. BOE, with much of the south redrawing districts clear into the '90s so they could "integrate" without really integrating
   

That's not to dismiss the obvious effects of welfare at all, but to say that African Americans were given an immediate opportunity would be glossing over what really happened. On paper, they were given a chance. In practice, it was made incredibly difficult for that chance to be taken. You could make a strong argument that they were effectively pushed into small, dark corners and told they weren't welcome, then had welfare thrown out there as a way of shutting them up.

---

I feel like that's a simple answer.

Welfare.

In 1965, black families had only 25% of children out-of-wedlock. In 2011, that number is 72% of children. The Great Society programs, for example, incentivized poverty and made being jobless and unmarried more lucrative. In the 1960s, black Americans faced discrimination and a constant uphill battle in almost every part of their lives. They were afforded an immediate opportunity to gain some sort of financial relief. Who would blame them for gaming the system then? However, over time, this marriage-less and fatherless system became deeply embedded within their community. This, in my opinion, contributed to the downfall of black families. 

From the very moment the Great Society programs are enacted, the rate of out-of-wedlock and unmarried black families plummeted.

Welfare is a special kind of disaster, but wouldn't you attribute the actions of whites before and during the Civil Rights era to the decline? A few key points here:

1. Neighborhoods were drawn up in ways to keep black families out of the desirable areas
   
2. Real estate agents colluded to refuse to even show houses in "white" parts of town to black individuals
   
3. Banks and mortgage companies engaged in redlining to make sure that black families couldn't afford houses in the nicer areas
   
4. Schools remained segregated long after Brown v. BOE, with much of the south redrawing districts clear into the '90s so they could "integrate" without really integrating
   

That's not to dismiss the obvious effects of welfare at all, but to say that African Americans were given an immediate opportunity would be glossing over what really happened. On paper, they were given a chance. In practice, it was made incredibly difficult for that chance to be taken. You could make a strong argument that they were effectively pushed into small, dark corners and told they weren't welcome, then had welfare thrown out there as a way of shutting them up.

Black economic progress against the tide of discrimination was greater than the progress under so called HELP.  the leading cause of poverty is single parent homes you can't gloss over the negative effects of the welfare system and current black popular culture.

---

Welfare is a special kind of disaster, but wouldn't you attribute the actions of whites before and during the Civil Rights era to the decline? A few key points here:

1. Neighborhoods were drawn up in ways to keep black families out of the desirable areas
   
2. Real estate agents colluded to refuse to even show houses in "white" parts of town to black individuals
   
3. Banks and mortgage companies engaged in redlining to make sure that black families couldn't afford houses in the nicer areas
   
4. Schools remained segregated long after Brown v. BOE, with much of the south redrawing districts clear into the '90s so they could "integrate" without really integrating
   

That's not to dismiss the obvious effects of welfare at all, but to say that African Americans were given an immediate opportunity would be glossing over what really happened. On paper, they were given a chance. In practice, it was made incredibly difficult for that chance to be taken. You could make a strong argument that they were effectively pushed into small, dark corners and told they weren't welcome, then had welfare thrown out there as a way of shutting them up.

Black economic progress against the tide of discrimination was greater than the progress under so called HELP.  the leading cause of poverty is single parent homes you can't gloss over the negative effects of the welfare system and current black popular culture.

I didn't try to.

---

Typical lefty trying obligate me to solve the problems he created.

I said the conversation could end here.

So I get to choose which of your two instructions on the matter to accept? Do you ever consider that other people may not respond particularly well to your directives to them? You strike me as a micromanager, which explains so much of your posting. I wonder if you have people that work for you and if they feel they same way IRL.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I said the conversation could end here.

So I get to choose which of your two instructions on the matter to accept? Do you ever consider that other people may not respond particularly well to your directives to them? You strike me as a micromanager, which explains so much of your posting. I wonder if you have people that work for you and if they feel they same way IRL.

I gave you 3 choices one of which was to do nothing.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

So I get to choose which of your two instructions on the matter to accept? Do you ever consider that other people may not respond particularly well to your directives to them? You strike me as a micromanager, which explains so much of your posting. I wonder if you have people that work for you and if they feel they same way IRL.

I gave you 3 choices one of which was to do nothing.

Like you get to give me choices...hubris.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I gave you 3 choices one of which was to do nothing.

Like you get to give me choices...hubris.

Well just like the government doesn't give you rights, you just have them, you always had the choice to do nothing.  I was just recognizing it.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Like you get to give me choices...hubris.

Well just like the government doesn't give you rights, you just have them, you always had the choice to do nothing.  I was just recognizing it.

Well, I was certainly lost without your recognition.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

jj82284 pid='1171203' dateline='1542920876']

Welfare is a special kind of disaster, but wouldn't you attribute the actions of whites before and during the Civil Rights era to the decline? A few key points here:

1. Neighborhoods were drawn up in ways to keep black families out of the desirable areas
   
2. Real estate agents colluded to refuse to even show houses in "white" parts of town to black individuals
   
3. Banks and mortgage companies engaged in redlining to make sure that black families couldn't afford houses in the nicer areas
   
4. Schools remained segregated long after Brown v. BOE, with much of the south redrawing districts clear into the '90s so they could "integrate" without really integrating
   

That's not to dismiss the obvious effects of welfare at all, but to say that African Americans were given an immediate opportunity would be glossing over what really happened. On paper, they were given a chance. In practice, it was made incredibly difficult for that chance to be taken. You could make a strong argument that they were effectively pushed into small, dark corners and told they weren't welcome, then had welfare thrown out there as a way of shutting them up.

Black economic progress against the tide of discrimination was greater than the progress under so called HELP.  the leading cause of poverty is single parent homes you can't gloss over the negative effects of the welfare system and current black popular culture.

This.

The factors that lead to poverty have been proven.  It's about life choices.

- graduate high school
- don't have children out of wedlock
- show up to work and provide value/have (and hold) a full time job

Culture (in terms of environment, peer pressure, etc) and government intervention certainly play into pressure/incentive to make poor decisions that lead to poor outcomes.  Those are the causes of the disproportionate outcome.

Otherwise, these are decisions anyone of any background can make anywhere.  What's more, there's nothing difficult about making these decisions.

You either value those decisions above that will determine your fate, or you do not.

You will rightly be rewarded or you will hold yourself back/create obstacles for yourself depending on your choices above.

To get back to the topic...

Cortez is the real life Idiocracy gift that keeps giving.  Unfortunately, there are those just as uninformed as her eating it up.  It's both entertaining, yet concerning at the same time.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Black economic progress against the tide of discrimination was greater than the progress under so called HELP.  the leading cause of poverty is single parent homes you can't gloss over the negative effects of the welfare system and current black popular culture.

This.

The factors that lead to poverty have been proven.  It's about life choices.

- graduate high school
- don't have children out of wedlock
- show up to work and provide value/have (and hold) a full time job

Culture (in terms of environment, peer pressure, etc) and government intervention certainly play into pressure/incentive to make poor decisions that lead to poor outcomes.  Those are the causes of the disproportionate outcome.

Otherwise, these are decisions anyone of any background can make anywhere.  What's more, there's nothing difficult about making these decisions.

You either value those decisions above that will determine your fate, or you do not.

You will rightly be rewarded or you will hold yourself back/create obstacles for yourself depending on your choices above.

To get back to the topic...

Cortez is the real life Idiocracy gift that keeps giving.  Unfortunately, there are those just as uninformed as her eating it up.  It's both entertaining, yet concerning at the same time.

I share the concern of many that she says stuff that's not at all factual but will rile up her base. her idea that eliminating waste at the department of defense would free up enough revenue for Medicare for all, is every bit as laughably false as the idea that we would build a wall and make Mexico pay for it.
At worst, AOC and DJT are two sides of the same coin, where it is no longer sufficient to simply lie by omission to win office. You actually have to tell fantastical fairy tales with fervor to make people believe that you believe them.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

This.

The factors that lead to poverty have been proven.  It's about life choices.

- graduate high school
- don't have children out of wedlock
- show up to work and provide value/have (and hold) a full time job

Culture (in terms of environment, peer pressure, etc) and government intervention certainly play into pressure/incentive to make poor decisions that lead to poor outcomes.  Those are the causes of the disproportionate outcome.

Otherwise, these are decisions anyone of any background can make anywhere.  What's more, there's nothing difficult about making these decisions.

You either value those decisions above that will determine your fate, or you do not.

You will rightly be rewarded or you will hold yourself back/create obstacles for yourself depending on your choices above.

To get back to the topic...

Cortez is the real life Idiocracy gift that keeps giving.  Unfortunately, there are those just as uninformed as her eating it up.  It's both entertaining, yet concerning at the same time.

I share the concern of many that she says stuff that's not at all factual but will rile up her base. her idea that eliminating waste at the department of defense would free up enough revenue for Medicare for all, is every bit as laughably false as the idea that we would build a wall and make Mexico pay for it.
At worst, AOC and DJT are two sides of the same coin, where it is no longer sufficient to simply lie by omission to win office. You actually have to tell fantastical fairy tales with fervor to make people believe that you believe them.

Her "base" is the 16K people who voted for her in the democratic primary and 100K democrats who voted for her in the 14th house district election. Outside of those loons, she has no other base.

---

The bread goes, as always, to the Politburo.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

She's from the David Hogg school of political reform.

---

I share the concern of many that she says stuff that's not at all factual but will rile up her base. her idea that eliminating waste at the department of defense would free up enough revenue for Medicare for all, is every bit as laughably false as the idea that we would build a wall and make Mexico pay for it.
At worst, AOC and DJT are two sides of the same coin, where it is no longer sufficient to simply lie by omission to win office. You actually have to tell fantastical fairy tales with fervor to make people believe that you believe them.

Her "base" is the 16K people who voted for her in the democratic primary and 100K democrats who voted for her in the 14th house district election. Outside of those loons, she has no other base.

Yes.  Trump's base has thousands times more delusional loons.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Her "base" is the 16K people who voted for her in the democratic primary and 100K democrats who voted for her in the 14th house district election. Outside of those loons, she has no other base.

Yes.  Trump's base has thousands times more delusional loons.

If by loons, you mean people who enjoy paying less taxes and having more economic opportunity, I agree.

---

Yes.  Trump's base has thousands times more delusional loons.

If by loons, you mean people who enjoy paying less taxes and having more economic opportunity, I agree.

I mean what I said.  People who thought Mexico would ever in any way pay for a wall on either side of our border, or who cheered when the current President said that they would, are delusional loons.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.