thats why blaming caldwell for the bryan pick or bb extension is silly because tom had to think it was a good idea too or he would have red penned that. what it mainly does is shift the blame to tom from dave unless just flat out lies says this player is good and he is not.

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So an article by fan boys at BBC is all the clarification we need? I get it the buck stops with Coughlin don't argue against that, has nothing to do with the horrible drafts from 2011-2014 or the crap free agents in that time period. You want to wash Caldwell of the BB extension and Bryant pick ok, no problem that's the least of my concerns. Caldwell set us back with his ground up rebuild and then missed on multiple high draft picks, time after time after time.

I just hope they've figured it out now that we're going to use this same group to pick our next QB. Don't kid yourselves even if next year totally sucks we're with this group until we see what comes of whoever the draft under center this year.

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Coffee fetcher?

He does the same thing he did before.

He just does it with someone looking over his shoulder that has the power to take a red pen to anything on Caldwell's desk.

His red pen was taken from him and given to Coughlin. Word it however you like but that is a demotion in the NFL world.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

We got two GMs and it still don’t work.

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I was thinking the same thing.  There's no confusion here.  It was made perfectly clear when he was hired that he was in charge of football operations, and would have the final say on personnel decisions both on and off the field.  I think he defers to Marrone on his coaching staff to some extent...now anyway.  But, he's been the final voice on every move they've made the past couple of years.

FBT, unfortunately I beg to differ. Confusion abounds.

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=29634

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=29560

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=29086

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=29394

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=29180

Etc etc

That's not confusion.  That's the typical Jags fan need to find someone to blame for issues with this team.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

We got two GMs and it still don’t work.

lol

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So an article by fan boys at BBC is all the clarification we need? I get it the buck stops with Coughlin don't argue against that, has nothing to do with the horrible drafts from 2011-2014 or the crap free agents in that time period. You want to wash Caldwell of the BB extension and Bryant pick ok, no problem that's the least of my concerns. Caldwell set us back with his ground up rebuild and then missed on multiple high draft picks, time after time after time.

I just hope they've figured it out now that we're going to use this same group to pick our next QB. Don't kid yourselves even if next year totally sucks we're with this group until we see what comes of whoever the draft under center this year.

Yeah.

Am I missing something? I only saw Alfie saying TC has all the power, that's it.

Either way 2 things:

1.-Caldwell has been awful
2.-If this is true he is useless, why exactly should we keep him?

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So Caldwell is essentially an overpaid scout? And a bad one at that.

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So Caldwell is essentially an overpaid scout? And a bad one at that.

I think scouting has been okay, multiple successful mid round picks like Telvin and Ngakoue show they can identify talent. It looks to me more like they're doing what almost every falling regime does, letting their perceived team roster needs have an impact on who they take.

They thought they "need" a running back, not a QB, so threenette happened, for example.

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So Caldwell is essentially an overpaid scout? And a bad one at that.

No
He’s the General Manager. 
He compiles and assesses the data brought to him by the scouts working under him. 
This isn’t a difficult concept, people.

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So Caldwell is essentially an overpaid scout? And a bad one at that.

No
He’s the General Manager. 
He compiles and assesses the data brought to him by the scouts working under him. 
This isn’t a difficult concept, people.

Just curious, of the 31 other teams, how many general managers need approval on their picks?

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Basically since khan has no idea how to run a.football team he noted Coughlin to do it for him. Caldwell still the GM but as coughlin head of operations need to be accountable for all decisions.

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Basically since khan has no idea how to run a.football team he noted Coughlin to do it for him.  Caldwell still the GM but as coughlin head of operations need to be accountable for all decisions.

So Caldwell is neither a general nor a manager in the essence of their definition?

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No
He’s the General Manager. 
He compiles and assesses the data brought to him by the scouts working under him. 
This isn’t a difficult concept, people.

Just curious, of the 31 other teams, how many general managers need approval on their picks?

I would think many of them look to get sign-off for their decisions from the owner.  Khan wanted someone with a football background signing off on those decisions, so he added a middle man.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Basically since khan has no idea how to run a.football team he noted Coughlin to do it for him.  Caldwell still the GM but as coughlin head of operations need to be accountable for all decisions.

So Caldwell is neither a general nor a manager in the essence of their definition?

I think he's still a GM in the traditional sense.  He just has a boss.  It's definitely a unique structure.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Just curious, of the 31 other teams, how many general managers need approval on their picks?

I would think many of them look to get sign-off for their decisions from the owner.  Khan wanted someone with a football background signing off on those decisions, so he added a middle man.

Most wouldn't have to get sign off from owners on draft picks. Thats implied in the job. Now for some specific cases like signing a guy with major off the field issues or whatever they likely would have to clear that first

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So Caldwell is essentially an overpaid scout? And a bad one at that.

Better than Gene Smith.  Glass half full.

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No
He’s the General Manager. 
He compiles and assesses the data brought to him by the scouts working under him. 
This isn’t a difficult concept, people.

Just curious, of the 31 other teams, how many general managers need approval on their picks?

There are a number of teams that have a GM in place that must reconcile personnel decisions with a head coach or football operation executive who has the final authority. I don't know the exact number. Probably 6-10 if I had to guess. 

It's a minority - but it's not uncommon. 

There's a reason so many folks clamored for TC to be hired to such a position that offseason. There is a long standing precedent for such a hire. 
Or did you think 30% of this message board just invented it on their own two years ago?

For probably near 20 years now - every offseason there's talk of former coaches and players being hired or interviewing as the "football czar" for this team or that. The Dolphins have done it for years going back to Parcells in 2008 and hiring Ireland after him.

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Basically since khan has no idea how to run a.football team he noted Coughlin to do it for him.  Caldwell still the GM but as coughlin head of operations need to be accountable for all decisions.

So Caldwell is neither a general nor a manager in the essence of their definition?

Yes he is, but instead of khan messing witch picks he hired a guy to do it for him. Coughlin I am sure has deligated tasks, as I'm sure coughlin doesn't have time to do everything.

So if Caldwell goes to make a trade etc.. That doesn't make sense then he can step in and stop it.

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Our structure isn't unique, it's this way several other places including the Rams, Lions and Eagles. In some places the EVP is also the GM, in others the GM has an Assistant GM. Coughlin fills a common link in the chain of football operations, nothing more.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Let's step back and look at what's happened to the team at a high level since TC came aboard.

2017 - Made the playoffs and went to the AFC Championship game and finished 2nd in the league in defense when nearly everyone was expecting the team to flounder at the bottom half of the standings.
2018 - Team regressed for multiple reasons, much of what was outside of the team's control. Extraordinary volume of injuries on the OL, regression of the QB, team chemistry issues and ridiculously conservative (at times) offensive play calling.

It's OK to be mad about 2018.  But based on the track record, dumping everything and everybody and starting over is silly and counterproductive.

Everything bar injuries in 2018 was "within the teams control"

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