One of the biggest problems of the cost of health care is big pharma. Big pharma charges ridiculous prices on many drugs. As mentioned earlier, my wife has two kinds of arthritis and takes a shot once a week. Each shot costs $1k but it only costs a few bucks to make it. They charge that much because they can. I'm all for businesses to make as much as they can, but there comes a point when making a profit becomes fleecing and price gouging . I'm not big on government  putting their fat fingers in business, but big pharma has proved they can't police themselves, and charge ungodly prices to consumers out of pure greed, and therefore, need to be regulated

Well, which is it? You're not for business making all that it can? You're not big on government putting their fingers in business?

It seems that you want to advocate for regulations, and have given valid reasons why, but are too intimidated to do so because we always must think that whatever "free enterprise' does is ok and whatever government does is evil. Always.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

One of the biggest problems of the cost of health care is big pharma. Big pharma charges ridiculous prices on many drugs. As mentioned earlier, my wife has two kinds of arthritis and takes a shot once a week. Each shot costs $1k but it only costs a few bucks to make it. They charge that much because they can. I'm all for businesses to make as much as they can, but there comes a point when making a profit becomes fleecing and price gouging . I'm not big on government  putting their fat fingers in business, but big pharma has proved they can't police themselves, and charge ungodly prices to consumers out of pure greed, and therefore, need to be regulated

Your wife's experience serves a quick lesson on how the market for healthcare and prescription drugs works.
Arthritis can cause permanent damage to the joints and leave the affected person disabled and in need of reconstructive surgery.
In a free market, the buyer feels free to walk away from one supplier, and consider other suppliers, or consider going without.
But in this market, your wife will do none of those things unless her doctor advises her to do so.
Ergo, it is not a free market.
Even if you eliminated all of the regulations, it still would not be a free market.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

One of the biggest problems of the cost of health care is big pharma. Big pharma charges ridiculous prices on many drugs. As mentioned earlier, my wife has two kinds of arthritis and takes a shot once a week. Each shot costs $1k but it only costs a few bucks to make it. They charge that much because they can. I'm all for businesses to make as much as they can, but there comes a point when making a profit becomes fleecing and price gouging . I'm not big on government  putting their fat fingers in business, but big pharma has proved they can't police themselves, and charge ungodly prices to consumers out of pure greed, and therefore, need to be regulated

Well, which is it? You're not for business making all that it can? You're not big on government putting their fingers in business?

It seems that you want to advocate for regulations, and have given valid reasons why, but are too intimidated to do so because we always must think that whatever "free enterprise' does is ok and whatever government does is evil. Always.

Just because I don't like government putting their fat fingers in business, doesn't mean it's not warranted, as evidenced by my statement saying big pharma has proven they cant police themselves. I don't like it no, but somehow big pharma has to be reined in and stopped fleecing or gouging consumers by charging hundreds or thousands  of dollars for medicines that only cost a few bucks to make. If it takes government intervention, so be it.  If they would charge reasonable prices for all their meds, regulations wouldn't be needed

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One of the biggest problems of the cost of health care is big pharma. Big pharma charges ridiculous prices on many drugs. As mentioned earlier, my wife has two kinds of arthritis and takes a shot once a week. Each shot costs $1k but it only costs a few bucks to make it. They charge that much because they can. I'm all for businesses to make as much as they can, but there comes a point when making a profit becomes fleecing and price gouging . I'm not big on government  putting their fat fingers in business, but big pharma has proved they can't police themselves, and charge ungodly prices to consumers out of pure greed, and therefore, need to be regulated

Your wife's experience serves a quick lesson on how the market for healthcare and prescription drugs works.
Arthritis can cause permanent damage to the joints and leave the affected person disabled and in need of reconstructive surgery.
In a free market, the buyer feels free to walk away from one supplier, and consider other suppliers, or consider going without.
But in this market, your wife will do none of those things unless her doctor advises her to do so.
Ergo, it is not a free market.
Even if you eliminated all of the regulations, it still would not be a free market.

Right but if they were regulated as to how much they could charge for the medicines, health care costs should decrease as insurance companies would not have to pay out so much

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That's why health care is cheaper in places like Australia. They do exactly that.

Health does not function as a free market as there is a power imbalance

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That's why health care is cheaper in places like Australia. They do exactly that.

Health does not function as a free market as there is a power imbalance

Is it because they just tack on the cost everywhere else? That and the population is about the size of Texas. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ts-up.html

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Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

It's true that it takes a lot of money in a lot of time to bring a drug to market.
And it's true that the per-unit cost has to defray that expense.
But this means that the same drug should get less expensive over time, as more and more of its initial cost has been defrayed.
For instance, what the heck is going on with humalog insulin?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

It's true that it takes a lot of money in a lot of time to bring a drug to market.
And it's true that the per-unit cost has to defray that expense.
But this means that the same drug should get less expensive over time, as more and more of its initial cost has been defrayed.
For instance, what the heck is going on with humalog insulin?

Newer and different innovations in insulin. Profit has been flat for 20 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...471f77f471

If the old still works then why do patients demand it? Because most insured patients dont pay for it, ie there's little price pain for most users.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's true that it takes a lot of money in a lot of time to bring a drug to market.
And it's true that the per-unit cost has to defray that expense.
But this means that the same drug should get less expensive over time, as more and more of its initial cost has been defrayed.
For instance, what the heck is going on with humalog insulin?

Newer and different innovations in insulin. Profit has been flat for 20 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...471f77f471

If the old still works then why do patients demand it? Because most insured patients dont pay for it, ie there's little price pain for most users.

we can't know for sure exactly what profit they make from selling that specific drug.
The point is that the price should be going down as the technology gets older and more of the initial investment and development is paid off.
But that's not how it actually works, because these firms don't actually compete with each other, and we can't actually walk away from them.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

That's why health care is cheaper in places like Australia. They do exactly that.

Health does not function as a free market as there is a power imbalance

Is it because they just tack on the cost everywhere else? That and the population is about the size of Texas. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ts-up.html

Oh dear Daily mail? 

Yes things cost more in richer countries. 

Though a lot of the world would think 1.60 for fuel with the purchasing power of Aussie's was a bargain

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Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

Well thanks for your willingness to pay through the nose so we can get it cheaper here.

Keep voting against your own interests please

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Is it because they just tack on the cost everywhere else? That and the population is about the size of Texas. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ts-up.html

Oh dear Daily mail? 

Yes things cost more in richer countries. 

Though a lot of the world would think 1.60 for fuel with the purchasing power of Aussie's was a bargain

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Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

Well thanks for your willingness to pay through the nose so we can get it cheaper here.

Keep voting against your own interests please

Good news, tariffs on exports are coming your way.

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Newer and different innovations in insulin. Profit has been flat for 20 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...471f77f471

If the old still works then why do patients demand it? Because most insured patients dont pay for it, ie there's little price pain for most users.

we can't know for sure exactly what profit they make from selling that specific drug.
The point is that the price should be going down as the technology gets older and more of the initial investment and development is paid off.
But that's not how it actually works, because these firms don't actually compete with each other, and we can't actually walk away from them.

You can still buy the original for $20 a vile at Walmart. You dont need the newest label, it's just a consumerist desire.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yes Mike, a decade of regulatory compliance causes a shortage of producers and thus lack of true competition.

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Is it because they just tack on the cost everywhere else? That and the population is about the size of Texas. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ts-up.html

Oh dear Daily mail? 

Yes things cost more in richer countries. 

Though a lot of the world would think 1.60 for fuel with the purchasing power of Aussie's was a bargain

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Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

Well thanks for your willingness to pay through the nose so we can get it cheaper here.

Keep voting against your own interests please

Um, no matter how you slice it...GDP or GNI, Australia falls way behind many in "richer countries" status, including US. And you know that $1.60 is per litres right? So roughly $82 to fill 30 gallons in US to $180 to fill 30 gallons in Australia. Yep, huge bargain.

Can you clarify the "voting against your own interests" comment?

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[quote pid='1192226' dateline='1549417433']
The point is that the price should be going down as the technology gets older and more of the initial investment and development is paid off.
But that's not how it actually works, because these firms don't actually compete with each other, and we can't actually walk away from them.

You can still buy the original for $20 a vile at Walmart. You dont need the newest label, it's just a consumerist desire.
[/quote]

Are you saying the humalog insulin is available for $20 per vial or that the older beef or pork insulin is available for that price?

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Yes Mike, a decade of regulatory compliance causes a shortage of producers and thus lack of true competition.

But who are the producers?
The insurance companies, the hospitals, or the doctors?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I was referring to pharmaceutical companies

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I was referring to pharmaceutical companies

So you're calling for reduced regulations and inspections for pharmaceutical companies.

People still remember thalydomide

Have fun storming that castle!

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

To get it on to the market takes time and money. Once on the market all that's left is producing and shipping the product. All the research and development costs have been made,all regulatory obligations satisfied and all that's left is sales

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Ummmm, do any of you guys know how much it costs to bring a drug to market? It's more than a few bucks a dose.

To get it on to the market takes time ancompeting drugy. Once on the market all that's left is producing and shipping the product. All the research and development costs have been made,all regulatory obligations satisfied and all that's left is sales

That's not how it works.  Day one of the market you have to work at repaying all that r & d over time.  It's not a magic wand and the consumer pays for a.) The cost of bringing the drug to market and the additional cost of capital not being invested to create a competing drug.

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To get it on to the market takes time ancompeting drugy. Once on the market all that's left is producing and shipping the product. All the research and development costs have been made,all regulatory obligations satisfied and all that's left is sales

That's not how it works.  Day one of the market you have to work at repaying all that r & d over time.  It's not a magic wand and the consumer pays for a.) The cost of bringing the drug to market and the additional cost of capital not being invested to create a competing drug.

You're either being dense or obfuscating.  Wrong_box knows how business works, and so do I.  Nothing he said was wrong.  It is reasonable for a new drug to be very expensive when it first enters the market.  There is no reason for that price to increase afterwards.  It should only ever go down until all of the initial investment, plus a reasonable margin, is paid off.  Then and only then there could be small price increases due to the cost of inputs, like labor, or botanicals, or petroleum, changing.  That is not what we see when we look at real drugs made by real companies.  We see unexplained and very high price increases even as everything else we can measure remains constant.  Again, look at Humalog insulin.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Oh dear Daily mail? 

Yes things cost more in richer countries. 

Though a lot of the world would think 1.60 for fuel with the purchasing power of Aussie's was a bargain

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Well thanks for your willingness to pay through the nose so we can get it cheaper here.

Keep voting against your own interests please

Um, no matter how you slice it...GDP or GNI, Australia falls way behind many in "richer countries" status, including US. And you know that $1.60 is per litres right? So roughly $82 to fill 30 gallons in US to $180 to fill 30 gallons in Australia. Yep, huge bargain.

Can you clarify the "voting against your own interests" comment?

Actually fuel is about $1.20 currently. Probably about half what it is in some European countries.

I thought you lot acknowledged that higher wages leads to higher cost of goods. Isn't that why you go holiday in Mexico? The average Australian is far wealthier than the average American it doesn't matter that as a CEO you would make more in the US or that GDP is higher. 

If you are born into wealth sure the US is great and I can understand why you are happy with voting status quo. Everything is geared to benefit the richest including health.

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