Odrick in front of Jack makes Jack's job easier... allowing him to play more free.

If we're talking run support, I get where you are coming from considering his ability to set the edge. However, fowler holds his own against the run and offers more in pass rush. If we're at the point that the run presence is equal or close, go with fowler. If it's definitely Odrick, continue to sub.

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If we're talking run support, I get where you are coming from considering his ability to set the edge. However, fowler holds his own against the run and offers more in pass rush. If we're at the point that the run presence is equal or close, go with fowler. If it's definitely Odrick, continue to sub.

I agree, but if Jack is playing just OTTO for now, he will mostly be on the field with Odrick in front of him and not Fowler.


I do think our talent would be fit to play the JDR style 4-3. I expect more stubbornness throughout the season from Gus... Atleast Jack is on the field though.

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I agree, but if Jack is playing just OTTO for now, he will mostly be on the field with Odrick in front of him and not Fowler.


I do think our talent would be fit to play the JDR style 4-3. I expect more stubbornness throughout the season from Gus... Atleast Jack is on the field though.

With our talent, the defense is at 7 right now. With a complete secondary upon the return of Colvin and we might drop lower still.

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With our talent, the defense is at 7 right now. With a complete secondary upon the return of Colvin and we might drop lower still.

Which exceeds my expectations. I expected us to be around 15 until our defense truly gelled. They have seemed to gel, and the young guys are performing well. I'm excited for this core Caldwell has built up on defense.

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Odrick in front of Jack makes Jack's job easier... allowing him to play more free.

 

 

I agree, but if Jack is playing just OTTO for now, he will mostly be on the field with Odrick in front of him and not Fowler.


I do think our talent would be fit to play the JDR style 4-3. I expect more stubbornness throughout the season from Gus... Atleast Jack is on the field though.

 

 

Uh, typically speaking, the OTTO or the Strong Side LB is lined up alongside the DE, at least in base it is. This was the big change from Jimmy Johnson's "Miami 4-3" to the current version that we see now. Case in point:

 

 

 

-------Y-T-G-C-G-T

___O--E---N----T---L

 

The SAM 'backer was brought down to the LOS in order to eliminate the TE from getting a free release or getting a double team on the "Big End". I'll see if I can find some screen shots of this to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

It's going to be too late before this coaching staff actually figures out how to properly use all the talent on this defense. It took an injury to Skuta before they realized Jack needs to be in this starting lineup.

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Which exceeds my expectations. I expected us to be around 15 until our defense truly gelled. They have seemed to gel, and the young guys are performing well. I'm excited for this core Caldwell has built up on defense.

My point was it would seem Gus, in fact, is not being stubborn, especially considering you were expecting around rank 15. If anything, it would almost be silly for a coach to switch schemes with this ranking. If ever there was a time to be stubborn, this is that instance.

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My point was it would seem Gus, in fact, is not being stubborn, especially considering you were expecting around rank 15. If anything, it would almost be silly for a coach to switch schemes with this ranking. If ever there was a time to be stubborn, this is that instance.

The stubbornness I meant was keeping Skuta on the field with a way more talented player on the sideline.


But yes, other than the San Diego game and a few hiccups from House and Cyp, the defense has looked better than I expected. I knew we had the horses to make this defense work, finally.

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Odrick is just like Roy Miller. You can't see everything he does in the stats.

 

And it was against the Colts, so not really a good example.

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It's going to be too late before this coaching staff actually figures out how to properly use all the talent on this defense. It took an injury to Skuta before they realized Jack needs to be in this starting lineup.

 

Truth.

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It's going to be too late before this coaching staff actually figures out how to properly use all the talent on this defense. It took an injury to Skuta before they realized Jack needs to be in this starting lineup.

I'm all ears, seriously. If you could please explain how they could've more properly used the talent that currently has them ranked 7th. I get that this board has a penchant for sarcasm and other passive-aggressive devices, but I'm truly asking you to break it down for me.

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I'm all ears, seriously. If you could please explain how they could've more properly used the talent that currently has them ranked 7th. I get that this board has a penchant for sarcasm and other passive-aggressive devices, but I'm truly asking you to break it down for me.

Never playing Skuta ever again for one. He has no business being on the football field.

 

The defense is playing well right now but you can't sit there and honestly say that this coaching staff has always got the most out of it's talent.

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Good. The 4-3 Under defense is [BLEEP].


Yes you're gonna stop runs to the inside with essentially 2 DTs and a NT.


No you're going to have a TERRIBLE pass rush and coverage with that same setup unless you have the personnel. Jacksonville simply doesn't, so just go to a normal 4-3 where everyone understands their role because it's simple, tried and true, and let the talent do the talking. Stop trying to compensate for a lack of talent that isn't there with an exotic scheme

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THERE IS A SKELETON INSIDE OF YOU.

 

RIGHT NOW. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

There are still plenty of snaps for Odrick at big end IMO.


I don't see much of an issue.


I like that they can put Fowler there more than they planned because of Ngakoue's play, but that doesn't have to change Odrick's drastically.


He can also kick inside occasionally.


Wash says they want to "come in waves"


That means lots of rotation.

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It's going to be too late before this coaching staff actually figures out how to properly use all the talent on this defense. It took an injury to Skuta before they realized Jack needs to be in this starting lineup.

Too true.

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With our talent, the defense is at 7 right now. With a complete secondary upon the return of Colvin and we might drop lower still.

Bull. This is not the #7 defense in what counts which is points per game.


24th.


Jack should have started week 1. No damn excuses.

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Never playing Skuta ever again for one. He has no business being on the football field.


The defense is playing well right now but you can't sit there and honestly say that this coaching staff has always got the most out of it's talent.

If I may, I'd like to present a rebuttal.


It's true, defense has not been our calling card since Gus became coach. Previously, we have drafted a player here and there as well as patched thru FA. This year's draft featured almost exclusively defensive players. Ramsey, although prototypical in almost any scheme, represents the poster child for the type of corner this scheme needs. Gibson gives us the sideline to sideline FS we've sorely lacked. Jackson not only provides the interior push central to our pass rush, but allows the depth to deepen along the dline for players like marks coming of injury and day who is a rookie. Having a 1st round pedigree would normally force you to start a player who might benefit from sitting. In this case, Jack didn't make it to the field until they were sure he was ready (read as: could trust him). It's not like he missed a bunch of snaps considering we were in nickel in most instances this season. I also find it hard to believe his presence would have reversed a few outcomes. probably quite the opposite as we've seen Ramsey make some mistakes with a simpler approach given the position. We have a 3rd rookie currently playing above his pay grade and they've schemed to help fowler have an impact. The defense hasn't been good despite the coaching, it should be fairly evident it has been good because of it.

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Good. The 4-3 Under defense is [BLEEP].


Yes you're gonna stop runs to the inside with essentially 2 DTs and a NT.


No you're going to have a TERRIBLE pass rush and coverage with that same setup unless you have the personnel. Jacksonville simply doesn't, so just go to a normal 4-3 where everyone understands their role because it's simple, tried and true, and let the talent do the talking. Stop trying to compensate for a lack of talent that isn't there with an exotic scheme

 

But the Under has been around since the Lombardi days. It's coached up all over the country so I can't see how it's so confusing. Plus, it seems to lend itself more to coverage substitutions anyway due to aligning a LB on the TE. I don't think scheme is the issue, I just think that the players aren't prepared for what they are going to see.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Bull. This is not the #7 defense in what counts which is points per game.


24th.


Jack should have started week 1. No damn excuses.

PPG game is high, but have seen the scoring broken down by quarters? Our secondary hasn't been the modicum of health. Add in offensive turnovers and bad penalties putting the opposing offense in scoring position and you have a recipe for a high PPG. If I had to choose, I would take yards or even yards per play as an indicator of how well a defense is playing as opposed to PPG. PPG to me, is more an auxiliary stat for gaining a clearer picture of how effective the defense has been.

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If I may, I'd like to present a rebuttal.


It's true, defense has not been our calling card since Gus became coach. Previously, we have drafted a player here and there as well as patched thru FA. This year's draft featured almost exclusively defensive players. Ramsey, although prototypical in almost any scheme, represents the poster child for the type of corner this scheme needs. Gibson gives us the sideline to sideline FS we've sorely lacked. Jackson not only provides the interior push central to our pass rush, but allows the depth to deepen along the dline for players like marks coming of injury and day who is a rookie. Having a 1st round pedigree would normally force you to start a player who might benefit from sitting. In this case, Jack didn't make it to the field until they were sure he was ready (read as: could trust him). It's not like he missed a bunch of snaps considering we were in nickel in most instances this season. I also find it hard to believe his presence would have reversed a few outcomes. probably quite the opposite as we've seen Ramsey make some mistakes with a simpler approach given the position. We have a 3rd rookie currently playing above his pay grade and they've schemed to help fowler have an impact. The defense hasn't been good despite the coaching, it should be fairly evident it has been good because of it.

Here's the problem with that: You're trusting a coaching staff to know when a player is ready to contribute even though said coaching staff has proven to not know what they're doing. 

 

In previous years, they forced their players to play in a style that doesn't suit their skill set instead of changing it to put them in a place to succeed. You know who coaches to their players skill set and changes their defense? Patriots. 

 

Jack is just one example for this year. Check out the previous years where we are near the very bottom to see how much coaching matters. I see a Dallas defense with holes at every level yet they still make plays and are 4-1. 

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