Is that a testament to Dave's ability to draft talent or is the coaching not quite as bad as we think. Yes, lots of hype about Ramsey before and after draft. Major talent on his part. I'm leaning towards its all Dave Calwell but, there is ever so slightly an argument for coaching when you've got the top 2 Defensive rookies.

Ever so slightly??? We're ranked comfortably in the top 10 in defense. Some kinda coaching would have to come into play

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Ever so slightly??? We're ranked comfortably in the top 10 in defense. Some kinda coaching would have to come into play

Surely you can understand any hesitation on giving credit to coaching after what we've seen this year. I hope it keeps up. I really do. But aside from winning 8-10 of the remainder of the games I don't think Gus should stick around. Which is what posed my question. Is it simply the talent or is it coaching. If the jags pulled off the victory in wk 1 and 3 and didn't get blown out wk 2 I'd say it would be both talent and that the coaching was as bad as we thought. But Gus is going to have to win a lot to be changing people's mind that the team can win despite him.

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Is that a testament to Dave's ability to draft talent or is the coaching not quite as bad as we think. Yes, lots of hype about Ramsey before and after draft. Major talent on his part. I'm leaning towards its all Dave Calwell but, there is ever so slightly an argument for coaching when you've got the top 2 Defensive rookies.

 

All the coaches have done towards their status at this point is to force-feed them the playbook and play them (and that's also what they didn't do with Jack). If and when they show significant improvement over what they've shown so far as raw rookies, then you can credit the coaching. Considering that Telvin and Colvin played as well as raw rookies as they do now ... well don't hold your breath.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Surely you can understand any hesitation on giving credit to coaching after what we've seen this year. I hope it keeps up. I really do. But aside from winning 8-10 of the remainder of the games I don't think Gus should stick around. Which is what posed my question. Is it simply the talent or is it coaching. If the jags pulled off the victory in wk 1 and 3 and didn't get blown out wk 2 I'd say it would be both talent and that the coaching was as bad as we thought. But Gus is going to have to win a lot to be changing people's mind that the team can win despite him.

I understand your hesitation but allow me to reprise how we got where we are. They knew initially we needed some specialized players for that defense.


Year 1: they landed cyp in the 2nd and Gratz in the 3rd. 3 more secondary prospects late in the draft. Cyp struggled but they maintained it was because we were never able to pair him with the requisite FS. Gratz always seemed more of a fit as a cover 2 corner than a pure 3 or man corner. Three others flamed out one way or another but not surprising considering their draft position. They supplemented with FA where they could. The first draft saw selections on both sides of the ball.


Year 2: we saw a more concerted effort towards the offense at the top of the draft. In the 4th and 5th they took chances on a CB who tore his ACL the year before and an undersized LB who dropped in part because of weed. More FA supplementing.


Year 3: again balanced selections between offense and defense with the crown jewel an athletic and violent DE/OLB from Florida. The next defensive selection wouldn't come until the fourth on the oft injured safety James Sample. More FA supplementation.


Year 4: the draft overwhelmingly focused on the defense. We knew going into the year there were still some key spots that needed filling. We were able to get all of those positions filled either through this draft or in FA. The defense told us in the off-season once they gel look out.


Talent has certainly played a part, but I would counter this holds true for any defense or offense. Think about where we were ranked last year and where we are now. I know a lot of ppl want Gus fired but it seems he and Caldwell knew it was more prudent to grab offense early as to allow them to develop and that it wouldn't take nearly as long for defense once they had their players. There have been rather dubious penalties called in each of the four games. That's not an aspect of coaching. There also have been some dumb penalties but they were also from young players. Come next year, bortles will be in year 4 and the defense will add depth. It will be extremely hard to beat us. Lack of experience is going to bite is this year but it won't be the problem it was for us next year.

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Is that a testament to Dave's ability to draft talent or is the coaching not quite as bad as we think. Yes, lots of hype about Ramsey before and after draft. Major talent on his part. I'm leaning towards its all Dave Calwell but, there is ever so slightly an argument for coaching when you've got the top 2 Defensive rookies.

 

Considering who Gene Smith picked to "fix" our defensive line in 2010, the Yannick pick is obviously a testament to Dave Caldwell's drafting ability.

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I heard during a game Telvin Smith dropped to Round 5 because he was undersized for a linebacker, weighing only 200 pounds. He is a testament to both Dave Caldwell's drafting ability and coaches using him the right way. Coaches aren't getting enough credit for figuring out during his rookie season he is by far our best Will and belongs on the weak side.


As for Colvin: We were coaching him in Mobile when he tore his ACL. The injury caused him to drop into Round 4 and Dave Caldwell knew it. I don't think the plan was ever to make him a full-time starter. Except for the last four weeks, we've seen what the coaches wanted him to do.

 

I totally understand the heavy criticism about coaches not putting Myles Jack on the field. Don't get me wrong; I want to see him too. But there must have been a reason they did not want to put him on the strong side during his first year that we as average Jaguars fans can't figure out.

 

You are correct: The team did focus on offense first because they knew it is harder to rebuild that side of the ball. Caldwell and Gus Bradley made that agreement during Bradley's first interview in 2013.

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During the draft, would anyone guess the player MJD announced in Round 3 is far more than a weird name on our roster?

Yes. There was a thread about Ngakoue in the draft forum and many posters here liked him a lot.

If I recall correctly several posters mocked him to the Jags in the second or third round. FCN reporter Mike Kaye also mocked him to the Jags in the third round. 

 

https://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/to...%20ngakoue

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During the draft, would anyone guess the player MJD announced in Round 3 is far more than a weird name on our roster? It would be interesting to visit other team forums just to see if they know about Jaguars player who wears $91.

Yea. Me.

 

I watched every single one of his games since I have season tickets to Terps football. He beat the crap out of Decker and Conklin who went in the 1st round.

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Wonder where Fowler would rank if he could be considered a rookie? I'd guess somewhere in the teens, I dunno.

 

I'm in a constant state of drool imagining plugging Peppers into this defense next year............

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Wonder where Fowler would rank if he could be considered a rookie? I'd guess somewhere in the teens, I dunno.

 

I'm in a constant state of drool imagining plugging Peppers into this defense next year............

I think we would need a really high draft pick for him and I really hope that doesn't happen.

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Like we say just pretend that Hurns was the 2nd rounder and Marqise was the UDFA, it won't be long until we are saying to just pretend that Yannick was the #3 overall pick and Fowler was the 3rd rounder. 

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Like we say just pretend that Hurns was the 2nd rounder and Marqise was the UDFA, it won't be long until we are saying to just pretend that Yannick was the #3 overall pick and Fowler was the 3rd rounder.

I don't think so. I mean I think we'll always treat him like the steal he is. As far as fowler, he's making his presence felt in a big way whether it results in the stat box or not. No int without the deflection...


Or were you being sarcastic?

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I don't think so. I mean I think we'll always treat him like the steal he is. As far as fowler, he's making his presence felt in a big way whether it results in the stat box or not. No int without the deflection...


Or were you being sarcastic?

I've noticed here lately it's pretty hard to tell...


Edit: I can't spell anymore.

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<i>Behold man's final mad disgrace.</i>

<i>He chops his nose to spite his face.</i>

 

-Etrigan the Demon

 

Like we say just pretend that Hurns was the 2nd rounder and Marqise was the UDFA, it won't be long until we are saying to just pretend that Yannick was the #3 overall pick and Fowler was the 3rd rounder.

I'm down with that.

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I don't think so. I mean I think we'll always treat him like the steal he is. As far as fowler, he's making his presence felt in a big way whether it results in the stat box or not. No int without the deflection...


Or were you being sarcastic?

Nah, as was mentioned a couple times earlier in the thread, Fowler is making an impact but it's by being schemed perfectly and from effort clean up plays...aka pretty much exactly what he was projected to be. Good, solid player but not close to #3 worthy yet.

 

Ngakoue at least has lined up across from his man and straight up whipped him a good number of times. That's worthy of an elite pick. 

 

Obvious caveat that 4 games is far too early to tell. 

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Nah, as was mentioned a couple times earlier in the thread, Fowler is making an impact but it's by being schemed perfectly and from effort clean up plays...aka pretty much exactly what he was projected to be. Good, solid player but not close to #3 worthy yet.


Ngakoue at least has lined up across from his man and straight up whipped him a good number of times. That's worthy of an elite pick.


Obvious caveat that 4 games is far too early to tell.

I thought either Gus or Dave said one of the things they liked about Dante while he was at Florida was his disruptiveness and that was their plan for him. If that's true, I'd say things are going according to plan

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Like we say just pretend that Hurns was the 2nd rounder and Marqise was the UDFA, it won't be long until we are saying to just pretend that Yannick was the #3 overall pick and Fowler was the 3rd rounder.

we should of taken Beasley like you said? Lol, Fowler is already better than Beasley 4 games into his career and Fowler is about where most thought he would be at this point or more, and to think he won't get better is laughable

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Yeah Beasley doesn't look good at all.


Leonard Williams is beating but I still think Dave made the right choice.

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Yeah Beasley doesn't look good at all.


Leonard Williams is beating but I still think Dave made the right choice.

agree, the first few games looked like they were trying to keep it simple with him. The Colts game they started getting a little more creative, ran a few stunts, but as the season goes on I think Wash will get more and more creative which its the way to use Fowler to create miss matches.

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Nah, as was mentioned a couple times earlier in the thread, Fowler is making an impact but it's by being schemed perfectly and from effort clean up plays...aka pretty much exactly what he was projected to be. Good, solid player but not close to #3 worthy yet.

 

Ngakoue at least has lined up across from his man and straight up whipped him a good number of times. That's worthy of an elite pick. 

 

Obvious caveat that 4 games is far too early to tell. 

I know you were never a Fowler fan to begin with, but every time he's brought up you say the same thing man. "Only because of scheme and cleaning up plays". Since when is effort plays a bad thing and since when is coaches scheming their players into good positions a bad thing? Is that the whole point? To scheme your players into the best possible outcome, regardless?

 

The guy is an absolute force against the run, which is rare for pass rushers, especially in their *rookie season.

 

Is he raw in terms of his moves rushing the passer? Yes he is, but you can clearly see he has the ability. He also has everything that cannot be taught in terms of H/W/S, his passion and fire for the game, how violent he is and how he plays with great effort. You can't teach that stuff and he has it.

 

The biggest thing that stands out to me when watching him is, that he needs to learn how to use his hands much better. He's strong and violent, but running your shoulder into any OT in the NFL isn't going to work much at all. Soon as they get their hands on you, it's over regardless of the caliber of player.

 

He tries to stutter step into the OT and drive his shoulder through them too much imo. I think part of that is when he's gassed, there's times when you can clearly see he's gassed out there and needs a breather.

 

As far as Beasley goes, it didn't take Atlanta long to drop the experiment of him being a DE. Didn't they move him to OLB? I notice that they put him in at the weakside DE (our Leo) on some very obvious 3rd and longs, but besides that he's the weak side LB.

 

8th overall is pretty dang high for a WILL backer.

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