other than our dline.  Defense is straight garbage

There were a lot of new faces trying to gel today, with Jack out, going against a top 5 in history NFL. 

There’s still hope

---

With Foles injury and the defense seemingly declining, it’s hard to not give up on the season already, even though it’s week 1. It’s a crappy feeling

That feeling of crappy is reinforced by highly paid 'professionals' acting like belligerent children. Fans get the impression that no one is in charge and the organization is rudderless. Unfortunately, if Marrone doesn't have this under control by now, he most likely never will. Losing a game because leadership is clueless, and then exasperated by incurring completely avoidable penalties due to purely egotistic childishness is demoralizing. We were truly the Raiders of the East, today.

---

Great job Bullseye. You hit the nail on the head. The Chiefs offense is a juggernaut, but we made things worse by playing off coverage the entire game. We were getting to the QB, but just a hair too late. Mahomes has such good anticipation and such a quick release that he was finding those open receivers. Had we played tighter it would have at least forced him to fit the ball into tighter windows. I don't know why we didn't make any adjustments.

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isnt there another 6th round pick playing tonight that came in for a injured QB and became kinda good

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It's really difficult to have any optimism after losing Foles and with the defense playing horribly. In 25 years, this franchise has made one bad quarterback decision after another. The only good one was trading 2 mid-round draft picks for Mark Brunell. Minshew played great today, but it's hard to imagine him ever being more than a middle of the road back-up considering his physical limitations. In hindsight, the Jags would have been better off not paying all that money to Foles and then taking Haskins in the first round. Just like they should have drafted Big Ben, Mahomes and others instead of Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles.

The upcoming schedule is very tough and it would not be surprising seeing them open up 0-6 or worse with Marrone exiting sometime before mid-season. Sorry for the pessimism, but this game was brutal.

---

Great job Bullseye. You hit the nail on the head. The Chiefs offense is a juggernaut, but we made things worse by playing off coverage the entire game. We were getting to the QB, but just a hair too late. Mahomes has such good anticipation and such a quick release that he was finding those open receivers. Had we played tighter it would have at least forced him to fit the ball into tighter windows. I don't know why we didn't make any adjustments.

Thanks.

The funny thing is this morning I saw NFL matchup this morning, and they broke down how Jacksonville defended the Chiefs last year,

They used a lot of zone and nickel coverage when the Chiefs went 5 wide.

It was a fundamentally sound atrategy in practice because they had adequate numbers on both sides of the formation.

The one problem last year was that they didn't have anyone who could cover Kelce.

As for Watkins, for some reason, he has always given us problems.  Back in 2016, he was the one guy who beat Ramsey deep.  He gave us some problems last year.
Today?  He destroyed us.

Was a lack of man the main problem?  I don't know.  I don't know if either Ramsey or Bouye could have covered him man to man today.  I certainly don't think Bouye could, since Ramsey was on Hill most of the game and Watkins seemed to have most of his success with Bouye in coverage.

---

isnt there another 6th round pick playing tonight that came in for a injured QB and became kinda good

Yes, but he wasn't a rookie when he came in for Bledsoe.  He was a 2nd year player.

Besides I would LOVE for Minshew to be another Tom Brady, but somehow I don't see it happening.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Just feels bad and like a tipping point and it is only week 1. Been a bumpy road for so long. Seems like we lucked into the stars aligning in 2017. We wasted so much time with the Bortles project. Man QB picks drive a franchise to chase.

---

The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Just feels bad and like a tipping point and it is only week 1. Been a bumpy road for so long. Seems like we lucked into the stars aligning in 2017. We wasted so much time with the Bortles project. Man QB picks drive a franchise to chase.

Do you mean a tipping point for the season, a tipping point for the franchise, a tipping point for a player, group of players or coach?

Please elaborate.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I'm not giving up hope. Our defense is better than this. And KC has kind of made a habit out of shredding defenses. We won't face an offense that powerful again. I'm also encouraged by what I saw with Minshew and the offense.

---

Always good to read your post game thoughts, Bullseye.  I have visited the board for a long time, but don't post much.  I'll share some random thoughts here on what was an eventful game.

I have to agree that half of our poor defensive performance was just going up against an extremely talented and well coached team and I expected the Chiefs to have success.  However, what little resistance we showed was disappointing to say the least.  Blown coverages, missed tackles, bad angles, and far too often soft and conservative play calling.  If not for the injuries to Hill and Mahomes, they surely would have hung 50 or 60 on us.  The defense is still the strength of our team and if they don't get right, it will be a long season.

Jack had arguably his worst game a pro and threw a temper tantrum to top it off.  You could see the ref was already throwing the flag for the dirty hit and if Jack had kept his composure it would have ended there.  I know its early, but I was not a fan of his large contract because of the position he plays and because I am doubtful he can play at the level to warrant it.  He's a good player, but not a great player.  We didn't learn much from the Telvin Smith extension.  I'd love for him to prove me wrong though.

I don't know how much of the Chiefs explosive plays had to do with our young safeties, but as of now it is a concern for our secondary.  It doesn't help that our two pro bowl corners looked average today as well.  I thought the defensive line played well at times, but we did give up a few too many big runs for my liking and some of that has to be attributed to them.  Allen, while not in any way dominant, had some nice plays and Bryan even flashed once which hopefully he can build on.  Quincy Williams flashed a couple of times, but hard to tell how he did in coverage.

One more thing about the defense.  It seems we are almost begging for personal fouls on every play after the plays are over.  It's disgusting and has to stop.  I get that the other team may be provoking some of it, but if you show it gets to you, you'll likely get provoked even more.  I want to assign the blame solely to the players, but considering it is a number of different players, I have to put some of the blame on Marrone for the lack of discipline.  Last year, I chalked the lack of discipline up to having a losing season and players not taking it well, but to have that start this early in the year is inexcusable.  Is Marrone too easy on the players? How does a hard nosed guy like Coughlin tolerate this?  How is this not eating at him?

Offensively, I wish we got to see more of Foles.  Very hard to judge him on a small sample size, but certainly dropped a beautiful dime on the touchdown pass.  I feel bad for him as I'm sure he feels like he's letting the team down, but considering he's never played a full 16 game season, it was always a possibility.  As far as I'm concerned we roll with Minshew.  The names of available QBs do nothing to excite me and Minshew has shown enough to think we have a QB that could develop into a quality backup.  He threw for 12 straight completions I believe and almost broke the team record.  I liked his poise and he throws a pretty ball.  Hopefully we can be competitive during Foles absence and while in no way am I predicting this, how could it not be a good thing if he played well enough in Foles absence to at least create a little QB controversy?  Foles is the guy and if he's healthy, he's playing, but a QB controversy in this case would be a positive thing.  Minshew certainly gives me more hope than a Henne or Kessler ever did.

As for the rest of the offense, Fournette does look quicker this year.  If he can stay healthy, he could have a productive year.  Our receives looked better than anticipated with Chark showing big play potential and Conley looking like a solid addition.  We still need play making at tight end which hopefully Oliver can provide.  Our OL was decent especially with two rookies at tackle, but we have to cut down the holding penalties.  They kill drives.  But, I do have to reiterate what Bullseye stated, they do seem a little one sided.  They say there is holding on every play, yet where are the holding calls on the Chiefs against the strength of our team, our Dline?

Next week will tell us a lot about our team and how this season will play out.  Are we overreacting to a game against what I think is the Super Bowl favorite or was it a sign of the chaos yet to come?  I would love to see them respond with some pride and go get a divisional win on the road, but who knows what to expect with this team.  I'll be watching because I guess I just can't look away.

---

Just feels bad and like a tipping point and it is only week 1. Been a bumpy road for so long. Seems like we lucked into the stars aligning in 2017. We wasted so much time with the Bortles project. Man QB picks drive a franchise to chase.

Do you mean a tipping point for the season, a tipping point for the franchise, a tipping point for a player, group of players or coach?

Please elaborate.

Sorry..  I don't know right now.  Feels like a franchise one but it is one game. It is heart breaking to work all off season thinking a stable and capable QB will get the job done and have it go up in flames 10 minutes into the season.

I am feeling melancholy about the team right now.  We had such a long decade of painful bad top to bottom teams and to have one flash in the pan year, ouch.  Sorry to be a debbie downer.

---

The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Do you mean a tipping point for the season, a tipping point for the franchise, a tipping point for a player, group of players or coach?

Please elaborate.

Sorry..  I don't know right now.  Feels like a franchise one but it is one game. It is heart breaking to work all off season thinking a stable and capable QB will get the job done and have it go up in flames 10 minutes into the season.

I am feeling melancholy about the team right now.  We had such a long decade of painful bad top to bottom teams and to have one flash in the pan year, ouch.  Sorry to be a debbie downer.

I feel you. I'm trying to keep it all in perspective but its been a rough 20 years as a Jags fan but after such a bleak decade, we out of nowhere get to the Championship game, have we turned a corner? Next season 5-11.

Get a SB MVP QB to join us. Drops a dime of a pass showing just what he can do, then breaks his collarbone and done for 6-8 weeks.

We get a slight taste of something good then it gets ripped away.

---

Always good to read your post game thoughts, Bullseye.  I have visited the board for a long time, but don't post much.  I'll share some random thoughts here on what was an eventful game.

I have to agree that half of our poor defensive performance was just going up against an extremely talented and well coached team and I expected the Chiefs to have success.  However, what little resistance we showed was disappointing to say the least.  Blown coverages, missed tackles, bad angles, and far too often soft and conservative play calling.  If not for the injuries to Hill and Mahomes, they surely would have hung 50 or 60 on us.  The defense is still the strength of our team and if they don't get right, it will be a long season.

Jack had arguably his worst game a pro and threw a temper tantrum to top it off.  You could see the ref was already throwing the flag for the dirty hit and if Jack had kept his composure it would have ended there.  I know its early, but I was not a fan of his large contract because of the position he plays and because I am doubtful he can play at the level to warrant it.  He's a good player, but not a great player.  We didn't learn much from the Telvin Smith extension.  I'd love for him to prove me wrong though.

I don't know how much of the Chiefs explosive plays had to do with our young safeties, but as of now it is a concern for our secondary.  It doesn't help that our two pro bowl corners looked average today as well.  I thought the defensive line played well at times, but we did give up a few too many big runs for my liking and some of that has to be attributed to them.  Allen, while not in any way dominant, had some nice plays and Bryan even flashed once which hopefully he can build on.  Quincy Williams flashed a couple of times, but hard to tell how he did in coverage.

One more thing about the defense.  It seems we are almost begging for personal fouls on every play after the plays are over.  It's disgusting and has to stop.  I get that the other team may be provoking some of it, but if you show it gets to you, you'll likely get provoked even more.  I want to assign the blame solely to the players, but considering it is a number of different players, I have to put some of the blame on Marrone for the lack of discipline.  Last year, I chalked the lack of discipline up to having a losing season and players not taking it well, but to have that start this early in the year is inexcusable.  Is Marrone too easy on the players? How does a hard nosed guy like Coughlin tolerate this?  How is this not eating at him?

Offensively, I wish we got to see more of Foles.  Very hard to judge him on a small sample size, but certainly dropped a beautiful dime on the touchdown pass.  I feel bad for him as I'm sure he feels like he's letting the team down, but considering he's never played a full 16 game season, it was always a possibility.  As far as I'm concerned we roll with Minshew.  The names of available QBs do nothing to excite me and Minshew has shown enough to think we have a QB that could develop into a quality backup.  He threw for 12 straight completions I believe and almost broke the team record.  I liked his poise and he throws a pretty ball.  Hopefully we can be competitive during Foles absence and while in no way am I predicting this, how could it not be a good thing if he played well enough in Foles absence to at least create a little QB controversy?  Foles is the guy and if he's healthy, he's playing, but a QB controversy in this case would be a positive thing.  Minshew certainly gives me more hope than a Henne or Kessler ever did.

As for the rest of the offense, Fournette does look quicker this year.  If he can stay healthy, he could have a productive year.  Our receives looked better than anticipated with Chark showing big play potential and Conley looking like a solid addition.  We still need play making at tight end which hopefully Oliver can provide.  Our OL was decent especially with two rookies at tackle, but we have to cut down the holding penalties.  They kill drives.  But, I do have to reiterate what Bullseye stated, they do seem a little one sided.  They say there is holding on every play, yet where are the holding calls on the Chiefs against the strength of our team, our Dline?

Next week will tell us a lot about our team and how this season will play out.  Are we overreacting to a game against what I think is the Super Bowl favorite or was it a sign of the chaos yet to come?  I would love to see them respond with some pride and go get a divisional win on the road, but who knows what to expect with this team.  I'll be watching because I guess I just can't look away.

Thank you.

Hope to read more of your posts in the future.

I'm inclined to agree with you that this was Jack's worse game, though I'm not sure if he had any responsibility on the Watkins deep pass to the right or he was supposed to pass him off.  I would think he had responsibility to pass him off, but the way Reid was calling plays, mixing up formations, etc, it wouldn't be a complete shock if somehow Jack were responsible for staying with Watkins, reminiscent of Pozluszny being responsible for Travis Benjamin a few years ago in San Diego. But even if Watkins was not his responsibility on that play, he had a bad game, without question. Him losing it like that and getting ejected didn't help matters.

I think your observation that the safeties are now a concern is astute.  I think most here were comfortable with Harrison. and resaonably okay with Wilson.  But until they shut some passes down that come into their area, offenses will attack that area of the defense whether the offense is as talented as the Chiefs or not.

Regarding Marrone, I have been a staunch supporter of his on this board, perhaps the earliest.  That said, the personal fouls and lack of discipline on defense will be a huge reason for his dismissal if he is let go.  The lack of discipline is quite puzzling considering he is considered a TC disciple and the first thing he did when he became interim coach was do things to instill more discipline.

I am absolutely sickened by the Foles injury.  Barring a 2000 Baltimore Ravens style level of play by the defense, the Foles injury will absolutely rob this team of what looked to be a promising season before today.

Are we overreacting to a bad loss?  It's never a bad bet to advance that proposition.  That's what fans do.  But I am not naive enough to think there aren't reasons for serious concern.  Even if Foles were healthy, this is still an incredibly tough stretch of the schedule coming up these next few games.  The Texans and tacks always give us fits.  Denver is a strong defense, Carolina is no slouch, and the Saints are an explosive offense too  That stretch is made a lot tougher if the defense continues to play undisciplined football.  But adding the Foles injury, playing a rookie QB behind essentially two rookie tackles, one of whom is the 3rd team LT playing out of position, I cringe of what our season could become.

---

Do you mean a tipping point for the season, a tipping point for the franchise, a tipping point for a player, group of players or coach?

Please elaborate.

Sorry..  I don't know right now.  Feels like a franchise one but it is one game. It is heart breaking to work all off season thinking a stable and capable QB will get the job done and have it go up in flames 10 minutes into the season.

I am feeling melancholy about the team right now.  We had such a long decade of painful bad top to bottom teams and to have one flash in the pan year, ouch.  Sorry to be a debbie downer.

No need to apologize. 

This was a demoralizing loss today.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Sorry..  I don't know right now.  Feels like a franchise one but it is one game. It is heart breaking to work all off season thinking a stable and capable QB will get the job done and have it go up in flames 10 minutes into the season.

I am feeling melancholy about the team right now.  We had such a long decade of painful bad top to bottom teams and to have one flash in the pan year, ouch.  Sorry to be a debbie downer.

I feel you. I'm trying to keep it all in perspective but its been a rough 20 years as a Jags fan but after such a bleak decade, we out of nowhere get to the Championship game, have we turned a corner? Next season 5-11.

Get a SB MVP QB to join us. Drops a dime of a pass showing just what he can do, then breaks his collarbone and done for 6-8 weeks.

We get a slight taste of something good then it gets ripped away.

Our last memory of the 1999 season (20 years ago) is those bastard Titans lifting the Lamar Hunt trophy over their heads in our stadium.

Since then, our existence as a team has been a rather lengthy malaise.

We've had fourteen losing seasons in nineteen years, including ten out of the last eleven years.

If this goes like it seemingly easily could go, it'll be 11/12.

The frustrating thing about last year and what may be this year, is injuries derailed our seasons, not a lack of talent.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Have more thoughts I'll comment tomorrow about but for ....Will Richardson, mightily impressive in the most awkward circumstances possible

---

It's really difficult to have any optimism after losing Foles and with the defense playing horribly. In 25 years, this franchise has made one bad quarterback decision after another. The only good one was trading 2 mid-round draft picks for Mark Brunell. Minshew played great today, but it's hard to imagine him ever being more than a middle of the road back-up considering his physical limitations. In hindsight, the Jags would have been better off not paying all that money to Foles and then taking Haskins in the first round. Just like they should have drafted Big Ben, Mahomes and others instead of Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles.

The upcoming schedule is very tough and it would not be surprising seeing them open up 0-6 or worse with Marrone exiting sometime before mid-season. Sorry for the pessimism, but this game was brutal.

I would argue that drafting Garrard in the 4th round was a pretty good decision also. Minshew looks like he might be that kind of gem as well.

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Yes, it's improvement, but it's Blaine Gabbert 2012 level improvement. - Pirkster

http://youtu.be/ouGM3NWpjxk The Home Hypnotist!

http://youtu.be/XQRFkn0Ly3A Media on the Brain Link!
 

Peyton must store oxygen in that forehead of his. No way I'd still be alive after all that choking.

 

Thank you.

Hope to read more of your posts in the future.

I'm inclined to agree with you that this was Jack's worse game, though I'm not sure if he had any responsibility on the Watkins deep pass to the right or he was supposed to pass him off.  I would think he had responsibility to pass him off, but the way Reid was calling plays, mixing up formations, etc, it wouldn't be a complete shock if somehow Jack were responsible for staying with Watkins, reminiscent of Pozluszny being responsible for Travis Benjamin a few years ago in San Diego. But even if Watkins was not his responsibility on that play, he had a bad game, without question. Him losing it like that and getting ejected didn't help matters.

I think your observation that the safeties are now a concern is astute.  I think most here were comfortable with Harrison. and resaonably okay with Wilson.  But until they shut some passes down that come into their area, offenses will attack that area of the defense whether the offense is as talented as the Chiefs or not.

Regarding Marrone, I have been a staunch supporter of his on this board, perhaps the earliest.  That said, the personal fouls and lack of discipline on defense will be a huge reason for his dismissal if he is let go.  The lack of discipline is quite puzzling considering he is considered a TC disciple and the first thing he did when he became interim coach was do things to instill more discipline.

I am absolutely sickened by the Foles injury.  Barring a 2000 Baltimore Ravens style level of play by the defense, the Foles injury will absolutely rob this team of what looked to be a promising season before today.

Are we overreacting to a bad loss?  It's never a bad bet to advance that proposition.  That's what fans do.  But I am not naive enough to think there aren't reasons for serious concern.  Even if Foles were healthy, this is still an incredibly tough stretch of the schedule coming up these next few games.  The Texans and tacks always give us fits.  Denver is a strong defense, Carolina is no slouch, and the Saints are an explosive offense too  That stretch is made a lot tougher if the defense continues to play undisciplined football.  But adding the Foles injury, playing a rookie QB behind essentially two rookie tackles, one of whom is the 3rd team LT playing out of position, I cringe of what our season could become.

---

I would like to post more.  I noticed the message board has been slow partly thanks to twitter and partly thanks to seeing next to no action from the starters in the preseason, but I can't say anything if I don't contribute.

Let's hope Jack takes this performance to heart and translates an unimaginably bad day in multiple facets into a pro bowl caliber season.

Marrone was touted as being cut from the same cloth as Coughlin so the continual lack of discipline is the most disappointing aspect of his coaching tenure.  Winning may be the only thing that can cure it.

I don't know about needing a 2000 Baltimore Ravens defensive performance, but being a top 5 defense is surely necessary to win without Foles.  This team has won with Bortles who had plenty of deficiencies of his own, but this is a new year with a lot of new pieces and a lot of new challenges.


I don't like to read too much into how difficult a schedule will be early in the year, but there is no doubt divisional games are always tough and we were swept by both the Texans and Titans last year.  And New Orleans scares me for a lot of the same reasons the Chiefs did.

We certainly are counting on a lot of young players on offense, but help unfortunately is not on the way.  They will sink or swim.

---

I know it's been said already but I'll repeat it.  After spending the offseason talking about eliminating penalties and immaturity, we get more of it.  Nothing's changed.  Do they just talk about this stuff, or do they actually do anything about it?  

I don't know what the answer is, but it looks increasingly like we drafted a bunch of immature, emotional, out-of-control players, especially on our much-vaunted defense.   I look at other teams, and they just go out there and play without the talking and shoving and stupidity.  Ronnie Harrison for example has not done anything of note in his career to justify the way he acts on the field.  

I'm starting to think it's Marrone's fault this team is so out of control.  There are too many guys doing it.  And it never stops.

--------------------------------------

When you think about it, what a weird result this was.  Gardner Minshew played like Tom Brady, and our supposedly great defense, with all those pro bowlers, played like the Keystone Cops.

---

I agree with pretty much everything Bullseye.

-Defense approach for me was disheartening. Todd Wash has to go. I was expecting to lose as KC has an amazing offense and they start really well every year (destroyed Patriots and Chargers in the last 2 seasons for exemple). 
But defense simply didn't show up. 
We were playing with so much off-coverage that it looked almost as if we were defending 3rd and 20 even on 2nd and 5. Yet, with the way our players struggle with zone and the free release KC receivers had they were able to go wherever they wanted with our players not even reacting.

It's not that we don't have talent. But our scheme and weakness have been figured out. 
We talked all training camp about the different looks we can give and yet we get on the field, we let the 4 on the d-line just line up in the most basic wayand go after the QB with zero tight coverage behind them, it was painful to watch.

To make it worse, another difference between this 2018-2019 and the vaunted 2017 defense is that back then players were hungry, they were out there to prove something.
Now they are out there running their mouths and showing off as soon as they can (see Ngakoue flexing after a tackle after they have been exposed for 2 hours).
Players displayed an ineptness at tackling that reminds me only of some of our games against the Titans. They were so bad at it that sometimes they barely touched the ball carrier right in front of them. 

-It was good to see the receivers on offense. They all played well. Offensive line did well considering the circumstances, even Will Richardson played a good game in his debut out of position.
Kansas City defense still isn't the greatest test but both QB's threw a nice ball and Minshew did a great job in his first start. 
Fournette ran well (the fumble should have been a penalty, I didn't see the int but apparently it was partially on him). I have no idea why he wasn't spared at times though with that heat and the way we could run the ball at times. 

-Officiating: i agree on that one too. We would have lost anyway but it's just unbearable how unbalanced it often is. The hit on Foles didn't even get a flag (Calais got penalized and an INT negated on that play when he tried to slide on the side of Rothliesberg last year, this guy drives Foles into the ground with no intention of moving away at all and gets away with it). 
Holding happens on every play right? Yet it seems that only our line gets called for it at the worst possible times. 
Just replay any action and you can see the same thing is happening to the KC Oline yet flags stay in the pocket. 
Kelce throws around a DB which barely reaches back to him and it's defensive holding. 
The Fournette fumble, if the penalty gets called takes us inside their 20 yards and maybe we get a shot to be within 3 points. We would still lose as our defense didn't have a clue yesterday but that's not the point. 

Jack ejection: it's absolutely his fault and can't be excused. But why on Earth Ramsey was ejected against AJ Green when (back then) he only gave him a push to the ground and AJ Green reacted punching him repeatedly with Ramsey not reacting? Officials explained that he was the one initiating and instigating the reaction.
Yet, yesterday, Watkins instigated Jack by pushing him from behind (worse than what Ramsey did with Green), Myles made the mistake but he was the only one ejected.  Again, when it comes to Jaguars it's often a different ruling.

To me the worst part of the loss though are both the penalties/immaturity. 
And above all what was disheartening was seeing Wash being outschemed once again and taking like forever to try and adjust something. We didn't even try putting up a fight, we just went there and let us slaughter us.
This is what worries the most. The next 2 weeks we play to save our season. We go into these 2 games with Wash at the helm on defense and we know how much we struggled against mobile QBs. 
I want to see a reaction, but I'm terrified they'll kill us with their mobility once again and that Wash won't have figured how to defend that yet.  

There have been positives yesterday, quite a few of them on offense. But the way our defense is being utilized and plays has killed any momentum going into the season for me. Either we see an immediate change or the season will be basically over in just 12 days.

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Jags flat out suck again this year.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them.