(10-18-2019, 12:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:

(10-18-2019, 10:49 AM)mikesez Wrote: Jagwired, he's not saying that it's Trump's fault that Turks and Kurds are fighting.  You're correct that they have fought many times and will fight again at some point regardless.  But he's just saying it's Trump's fault that they are fighting (and dying) at this particular place in Syria at this particular time.  And he's right.  You can't dispute that.

I dispute that. We aren't responsible for what other people choose to do.

"Responsible" is such a loaded term.
In the short term view, our withdrawal is the proximate and sufficient cause of their fighting.
In the long term retrospective view, they were going to fight again anyways.
In the long term prospective view, it's possible that if we, or some other neutral peacekeeper, hung around long enough they would learn not to fight.

You might not like the short term view here, or you might not thing it's interesting, but it's no less correct than the other two views.  It's just a matter of the time frame you choose to consider.

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(10-18-2019, 12:45 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote:

(10-18-2019, 12:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: I dispute that. We aren't responsible for what other people choose to do.

And they're always going to kill eachother because they refuse to grow the eff up.

The Romans would have said the same thing about my ancestors on both sides, yet for generations we have been considered peaceful and industrious individuals.

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