I just did a little research into the DT market on spotrac.

I may change my tune slightly on Dareus after looking at the numbers for current DTs in the league around his age and production. While the cap hit is a high number, his actual contract is not bad.
I would still like him to restructure or possibly extend his contract to help the teams cap situation, perhaps with some magic worked by Idzik with some signing bonus or moving dollars around if possible.

But I no longer think he is an easy cut just to clear that cap space.

By cutting Lee, Swaim, Ryan, Cann, and Jones we save 21.8 mil and puts us in the black.

I'm not sure I understand. His contract ends after next season, so his cap hit is all that matters. He's at $22.5M which is behind only Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox (from what I could tell). Both players are significantly better than Dareus. Every other decent DT had a cap hit between $10-15M, which is where I see his value.

I said I'd still rather have him restructure or extend. But if his perceived cap hit value is at 15, and we're talking 22... it's tough pill to swallow but one that could be done if it means keeping the DL stout. We aren't getting his production from a rookie or from Jones.
We set up this deal like this on purpose, and it's probably still likely the team cuts him if he's unwilling to rework the deal.

I just did a little research into the DT market on spotrac.

I may change my tune slightly on Dareus after looking at the numbers for current DTs in the league around his age and production. While the cap hit is a high number, his actual contract is not bad.
I would still like him to restructure or possibly extend his contract to help the teams cap situation, perhaps with some magic worked by Idzik with some signing bonus or moving dollars around if possible.

But I no longer think he is an easy cut just to clear that cap space.

By cutting Lee, Swaim, Ryan, Cann, and Jones we save 21.8 mil and puts us in the black.

Dareus is essentially just a run stuffer at this point in his career and while a good one that's the easiest position to replace on defense. He'd want to be restructured to a fairly low amount to make it worth it

He's not just a run stuffer though. He's actually gotten good inside pressure quite a bit since coming aboard. We picked him up for his run stuffing and run defense... but when healthy he was a force inside getting pressure on the QB.

That all being said. If they cut him, it clears a lot of cap space, which is good.
If they don't cut him but make enough cuts elsewhere, it really won't kill us and we'll keep a very good player.

Best case scenario is he reworks his deal and we improve the cap situation and keep him.
We still need to draft a young NT in 2020 either way with an eye on the future.

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I'm not sure I understand. His contract ends after next season, so his cap hit is all that matters. He's at $22.5M which is behind only Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox (from what I could tell). Both players are significantly better than Dareus. Every other decent DT had a cap hit between $10-15M, which is where I see his value.

I said I'd still rather have him restructure or extend. But if his perceived cap hit value is at 15, and we're talking 22... it's tough pill to swallow but one that could be done if it means keeping the DL stout. We aren't getting his production from a rookie or from Jones.
We set up this deal like this on purpose, and it's probably still likely the team cuts him if he's unwilling to rework the deal.

Dareus is essentially just a run stuffer at this point in his career and while a good one that's the easiest position to replace on defense. He'd want to be restructured to a fairly low amount to make it worth it

He's not just a run stuffer though. He's actually gotten good inside pressure quite a bit since coming aboard. We picked him up for his run stuffing and run defense... but when healthy he was a force inside getting pressure on the QB.

That all being said. If they cut him, it clears a lot of cap space, which is good.
If they don't cut him but make enough cuts elsewhere, it really won't kill us and we'll keep a very good player.

Best case scenario is he reworks his deal and we improve the cap situation and keep him.
We still need to draft a young NT in 2020 either way with an eye on the future.

This year, he was primarily a run stuffer. He recorded two pressures , one hurry, and half a sack thus far. 

I'm not saying that he couldn't potentially get back to being effective vs the pass again when healthy, but he wasn't doing much in that area for us this season. Mostly he was playing a run-stuffing nose tackle role  - a guy who could eat dbl teams and occasionally slow down or tackle a back near the LOS. He makes our LBs look better when he's in because he sometimes alters the RB path and buys them a split second to adjust.

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I said I'd still rather have him restructure or extend. But if his perceived cap hit value is at 15, and we're talking 22... it's tough pill to swallow but one that could be done if it means keeping the DL stout. We aren't getting his production from a rookie or from Jones.
We set up this deal like this on purpose, and it's probably still likely the team cuts him if he's unwilling to rework the deal.


He's not just a run stuffer though. He's actually gotten good inside pressure quite a bit since coming aboard. We picked him up for his run stuffing and run defense... but when healthy he was a force inside getting pressure on the QB.

That all being said. If they cut him, it clears a lot of cap space, which is good.
If they don't cut him but make enough cuts elsewhere, it really won't kill us and we'll keep a very good player.

Best case scenario is he reworks his deal and we improve the cap situation and keep him.
We still need to draft a young NT in 2020 either way with an eye on the future.

This year, he was primarily a run stuffer. He recorded two pressures , one hurry, and half a sack thus far. 

I'm not saying that he couldn't potentially get back to being effective vs the pass again when healthy, but he wasn't doing much in that area for us this season. Mostly he was playing a run-stuffing nose tackle role  - a guy who could eat dbl teams and occasionally slow down or tackle a back near the LOS. He makes our LBs look better when he's in because he sometimes alters the RB path and buys them a split second to adjust.

I was thinking of last year. When I would argue he was a potential cut and people told me he brought more than just a run stuffing NT.

Weren't you the one that told me he was playing hurt or with one arm or something? You playing both sides of the fence or what NYC lol

"when healthy" were key words seemingly skimmed over here

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This year, he was primarily a run stuffer. He recorded two pressures , one hurry, and half a sack thus far. 

I'm not saying that he couldn't potentially get back to being effective vs the pass again when healthy, but he wasn't doing much in that area for us this season. Mostly he was playing a run-stuffing nose tackle role  - a guy who could eat dbl teams and occasionally slow down or tackle a back near the LOS. He makes our LBs look better when he's in because he sometimes alters the RB path and buys them a split second to adjust.

I was thinking of last year. When I would argue he was a potential cut and people told me he brought more than just a run stuffing NT.

Weren't you the one that told me he was playing hurt or with one arm or something? You playing both sides of the fence or what NYC lol

"when healthy" were key words seemingly skimmed over here

Yes.  Guilty as charged, though I did include the qualifier "when healthy."

Dareus was less effective vs the run and pass due to an elbow injury that kept him out for (i think) two games at tyhe top of the season.  Because he often made plays vs RBs and QBs with one arm as he was still engaged in or shedding a block, this injury hurt his performance. 

I really do straddle the fence on this one because I like the player and our run D hurts from his absence. 
I just slightly lean toward drafting a nose tackle  - unless he want to extend his contract and make ~12 mil per year for two years instead of 22.5 mil in one year.

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Rollover is what complicates the Dareus decision. If it were simply use it or lose it with cap space then it would be a lot easier to hang on to a good but very overpaid player.

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It feels like Dareus will test the FA market, but may end up signing back with the Jags when all is said and done. He has some legit character concerns, I would prefer not to give him a long contract.

Lee is almost certainly a cut

Ryan is a likely cut unless he comes in and looks really good in the back half of 2019.

I think Norwell will play out next year and be cut. I don’t think there are many upgrades out there in FA that are equivalent to his cap savings. On the off chance his deficiencies are health related, it would be nice to see how he responds in camp next year.

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It feels like Dareus will test the FA market, but may end up signing back with the Jags when all is said and done.  He has some legit character concerns, I would prefer not to give him a long contract.

Character concerns?
C'mon man...

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It feels like Dareus will test the FA market, but may end up signing back with the Jags when all is said and done.  He has some legit character concerns, I would prefer not to give him a long contract.

Character concerns?
C'mon man...

He tokes and pokes on the regular.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Character concerns?
C'mon man...

He tokes and pokes on the regular.

When was the last time he was suspended for toking?
And all that poking stuff was money grab nonsense that was dropped, iirc.

He's been a pretty stand up dude for his tenure in Jville

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He tokes and pokes on the regular.

When was the last time he was suspended for toking?
And all that poking stuff was money grab nonsense that was dropped, iirc.

He's been a pretty stand up dude for his tenure in Jville

He has kept it together. I think he will fall off after another big payday. He had issues in Buffalo after they payed him and he has had some issues in Jacksonville since he came on board. I don’t know if I’d say “stand up dude.”

Does he want a 4 year deal with lots of guarantees? I would let someone else take that risk.

Does he want 2 years with fair guarantees? I would take that risk.

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When was the last time he was suspended for toking?
And all that poking stuff was money grab nonsense that was dropped, iirc.

He's been a pretty stand up dude for his tenure in Jville

He has kept it together.  I think he will fall off after another big payday.  He had issues in Buffalo after they payed him and he has had some issues in Jacksonville since he came on board.  I don’t know if I’d say “stand up dude.”

Does he want a 4 year deal with lots of guarantees?  I would let someone else take that risk.

Does he want 2 years with fair guarantees?  I would take that risk.

Well currently we're looking at his deal as a 1 year deal.
Does he want to restructure at all? If he's cut would he want a long term deal, who knows.

This teams current FO structure has a track record of doing deals that are essentially 2 year deals for vets like Dareus.
I wouldn't want a 4 year deal with lots of gtd either, simply because of his age and injury and further cap implications it could have.

I ain't worried about the dude tokin and pokin though lol

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I think Dareus has played his last NFL game.  It would not shock me if he chooses to retire after this season is over.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

If Dareus cuts that number way back, keep him. He's worth having around at a reasonably high price because of what he brings to the team. Ryan's an easy cut, Swaim and Lee can and likely will also go. Bouye needs to be kept, Hayden as well imo. He's an excellent nickel/blitzing corner. Calais is going to be a tough call this offseason, but I think a restructuring is much more likely than a cut if anything happens at all.

The idea that we'd pay Norwell $5M more to play for someone else than we'd pay him to play for us is ridiculous. Football decisions aren't as petty as cutting a guy that expensive because you don't like him.

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If Dareus cuts that number way back, keep him. He's worth having around at a reasonably high price because of what he brings to the team. Ryan's an easy cut, Swaim and Lee can and likely will also go. Bouye needs to be kept, Hayden as well imo. He's an excellent nickel/blitzing corner. Calais is going to be a tough call this offseason, but I think a restructuring is much more likely than a cut if anything happens at all.

The idea that we'd pay Norwell $5M more to play for someone else than we'd pay him to play for us is ridiculous. Football decisions aren't as petty as cutting a guy that expensive because you don't like him.

I think Norwell tends to get a bad rap among fans and is actually one of the reasons why Fournette has consistently led the league in rushing.

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'02

If Dareus cuts that number way back, keep him. He's worth having around at a reasonably high price because of what he brings to the team. Ryan's an easy cut, Swaim and Lee can and likely will also go. Bouye needs to be kept, Hayden as well imo. He's an excellent nickel/blitzing corner. Calais is going to be a tough call this offseason, but I think a restructuring is much more likely than a cut if anything happens at all.

The idea that we'd pay Norwell $5M more to play for someone else than we'd pay him to play for us is ridiculous. Football decisions aren't as petty as cutting a guy that expensive because you don't like him.

I think Norwell tends to get a bad rap among fans and is actually one of the reasons why Fournette has consistently led the league in rushing.

Norwell has improved this year. A lot of this year's early criticism was just residual from last year that carried over. This offensive line is hard to keep intact though. Over the last two years it feels like they have a new face here, a new face there and a player or two playing at a different position that they're barely comfortable with. 

All they can do is continue to find quality depth with starting potential like they did with Richardson last year and Taylor falling into their laps in round two. Still, a 4 - 5 record after losing your highly prized off-season QB with a 6TH RD rookie under center is more than anyone could have probably asked for around here.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Don't forget the $9.75m that should be credited back to our 2020 cap from Telvin Smith not playing this season.

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Don't forget the $9.75m that should be credited back to our 2020 cap from Telvin Smith not playing this season.

Speaking of Telvin, isn't he thinking of playing next year? He meant to take a year off... not retire.

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'02

The only one that makes sense too cut is Lee, who cares how much cap space they have.. who are they going to spend all this extra money on?

What extra cap space ? The Jags are tight against the cap and need to free up space to sign Yan to a contract extension at a minimum.

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Calais Campbell seemed pretty much a non-factor in this (Indy) game.

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Calais Campbell seemed pretty much a non-factor in this (Indy) game.

Playing too much inside taking on the double teams every snap.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato