My point was you don't really want a Flacco, Rivers,Dalton,Tannehill,Winston etc etc do you.

You want a Manning,Brees,Rogers. They aren't franchise QBs. They are Hall of fame QBs

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My point was you don't really want a Flacco, Rivers,Dalton,Tannehill,Winston etc etc do you.

You want a Manning,Brees,Rogers. They aren't franchise QBs. They are Hall of fame QBs

I do want a Rivers. He's a hall of famer. I also want a Rodgers, a Big Ben, a Wilson, a Mahomes, a Watson, a Luck, a Ryan. Like I said, rare but not extremely so.

The Stafford/Newton/Prescott type line is the tough one. If I had one of them it would be a real tough call whether to try again or give them 1/5 of my salary cap.

While on a rookie salary you can do worse than that, like the Dalton or where I think Minshew will settle type, but you better have a plan ready before it comes time to pay them.

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I wonder if we are really letting sink in that Gardner just threw more TD's in a season then Mark ever did.

In like 13 games. Don't give me that "different era crap" either.

Gardner threw the ball 460 times this year. Mark had years with 557, 435, 441, 512, 473, ....

Gardner isn't throwing to Jimmy and Keenan, with Fred at running back, with a seriously talented Oline.

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I wonder if we are really letting sink in that Gardner just threw more TD's in a season then Mark ever did.

In like 13 games.  Don't give me that "different era crap" either.

Gardner threw the ball 460 times this year.  Mark had years with 557, 435, 441, 512, 473, ....

Gardner isn't throwing to Jimmy and Keenan, with Fred at running back, with  a seriously talented  Oline.

Yea but the defense's are much more handicapped today.  You don't remember the days of Darius coming across the middle and just laying somebody out?  Today's game it's a flag every time.  The defense could be much more physical back in those days.

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I wonder if we are really letting sink in that Gardner just threw more TD's in a season then Mark ever did.

In like 13 games.  Don't give me that "different era crap" either.

Gardner threw the ball 460 times this year.  Mark had years with 557, 435, 441, 512, 473, ....

Gardner isn't throwing to Jimmy and Keenan, with Fred at running back, with  a seriously talented  Oline.

Yea but the defense's are much more handicapped today.  You don't remember the days of Darius coming across the middle and just laying somebody out?  Today's game it's a flag every time.  The defense could be much more physical back in those days.

I still remember that Darius hit on Donald Driver in Green Bay...

I loved that "Jacked Up" segment on MNF countdown show.

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I wonder if we are really letting sink in that Gardner just threw more TD's in a season then Mark ever did.

In like 13 games.  Don't give me that "different era crap" either.

Gardner threw the ball 460 times this year.  Mark had years with 557, 435, 441, 512, 473, ....

Gardner isn't throwing to Jimmy and Keenan, with Fred at running back, with  a seriously talented  Oline.

Yea but the defense's are much more handicapped today.  You don't remember the days of Darius coming across the middle and just laying somebody out?  Today's game it's a flag every time.  The defense could be much more physical back in those days

This is a ridiculous and flat out wrong way to look at this.  The logic falls in its face.  

Darius WAS fined and SUSPENDED for that one hit.  Not sure he even appealed it.  

We all want to act like it is such a new age, but the reality is it is just another ebb and flow of the NFL.  The rules have shifted, but not so much from 2000 to now as it was from 1979 to 1999.  

I believe the last 2 years you have seen an attempt by many teams to shift to a more balanced format.   The Ravens, the Pats, the Saints (to the least extent in this list) the Tacks, the Clots, the Bills, the 49ers—even the Pack, and Seahawks with elite QBs all have shifted to basically being RUN focused.  
 
Incidentally, I don’t think this regime tried to go the way of the dinosaur but rather tried to be at the front of this wave, but TCs impersonal way of dealing with things went a long way from fostering a team mentality and made a “us against them” mentality.  

Regardless, this notion of it being such a different age is garbage, and really falls apart when you look at what Gardner has to work with in comparison to 8 back in the day when evidently leather helmets were all the rage.

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I have said it a lot and I continue to say it. Minshew reminds me of Tony Romo. His play style and his draft placement are similar. Romo was a franchise QB who Dallas failed to capitalize on(like Philip Rivers).

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I wonder if we are really letting sink in that Gardner just threw more TD's in a season then Mark ever did.

In like 13 games.  Don't give me that "different era crap" either.

Gardner threw the ball 460 times this year.  Mark had years with 557, 435, 441, 512, 473, ....

Gardner isn't throwing to Jimmy and Keenan, with Fred at running back, with  a seriously talented  Oline.

Mark only threw for 18 TDs in his best season, but in 1996 he led the league in passing yards. A lot of people forgot that he also led the league in rushing for QBs that year too.

 Minshew is not on Brunell’s level yet. 

Mark made Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell. Mark threw a beautiful ball. And he had nice touch. The greatest offensive play in franchise history was when Jimmy Smith faded to glory and it was because Brunell threw an absolute dime.

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Too much money invested in QB currently. I say we let Nick and Gardner battle it out in preseason.

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My point was you don't really want a Flacco, Rivers,Dalton,Tannehill,Winston etc etc do you.

You want a Manning,Brees,Rogers. They aren't franchise QBs. They are Hall of fame QBs

I do want a Rivers. He's a hall of famer. I also want a Rodgers, a Big Ben, a Wilson, a Mahomes, a Watson, a Luck, a Ryan. Like I said, rare but not extremely so.

The Stafford/Newton/Prescott type line is the tough one. If I had one of them it would be a real tough call whether to try again or give them 1/5 of my salary cap.

While on a rookie salary you can do worse than that, like the Dalton or where I think Minshew will settle type, but you better have a plan ready before it comes time to pay them.

But Rivers has never got the chargers to the playoffs with any consistency and not sniffed a Superbowl?

Big Ben hasn't sniffed a championship since losing the great D.

Luck made the playoffs like half the time and didn't get close.

Mahomes and Watson too soon. Maybe Russell Wilson?

I'd rather just have a great oline / D and contend that way. Usually the QB gets the credit anyway so will be called a franchise QB. See Flacco, Alex Smith etc

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I'd rather just have a great oline / D and contend that way. Usually the QB gets the credit anyway so will be called a franchise QB. See Flacco, Alex Smith etc

Rivers is the clear top QB that for some reason or another just hasn't worked out, kind of like Romo. Doesn't mean he hasn't been excellent and we wouldn't have been infinitely better with him. Big Ben literally hasn't had a losing season in his entire career. Luck started his career with three straight 11 win seasons with one of the least talented teams in the league and also never had a losing season.

Have fun rebuilding every few years with your style. Teams that don't have one of those types of QBs do not sustain success. It's too hard to keep an entire team stocked when players get old, hurt, expensive, etc.

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I'd rather just have a great oline / D and contend that way. Usually the QB gets the credit anyway so will be called a franchise QB. See Flacco, Alex Smith etc

Rivers is the clear top QB that for some reason or another just hasn't worked out, kind of like Romo. Doesn't mean he hasn't been excellent and we wouldn't have been infinitely better with him. Big Ben literally hasn't had a losing season in his entire career. Luck started his career with three straight 11 win seasons with one of the least talented teams in the league and also never had a losing season.

Have fun rebuilding every few years with your style. Teams that don't have one of those types of QBs do not sustain success. It's too hard to keep an entire team stocked when players get old, hurt, expensive, etc.

Having the QB is huge, but I will say the stats on Luck are a bit misleading. He came into the league at a time when the Jags and titans were swooning, he got four easy stat padding games each season in those games. If it weren't for the chiefs absolutely [BLEEP] the bed against him in the playoffs he wouldn't even have a signature win in his career.

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I'd rather just have a great oline / D and contend that way. Usually the QB gets the credit anyway so will be called a franchise QB. See Flacco, Alex Smith etc

Rivers is the clear top QB that for some reason or another just hasn't worked out, kind of like Romo. Doesn't mean he hasn't been excellent and we wouldn't have been infinitely better with him. Big Ben literally hasn't had a losing season in his entire career. Luck started his career with three straight 11 win seasons with one of the least talented teams in the league and also never had a losing season.

Have fun rebuilding every few years with your style. Teams that don't have one of those types of QBs do not sustain success. It's too hard to keep an entire team stocked when players get old, hurt, expensive, etc.

You like to give a QB 1 year.  Its rare a QB comes into the league as a rookie and light it up.  You would of gave up on some of the all time greats and drafted a QB the following year after not having a great rookie year.  I think Minshew has flashed and definitely played good enough to see what he can do next year with an offense built around him, some better coaching and better players around him.  If you dont think he's showed enough his rookie year I'm not exactly sure what your are looking for.  This team has a ton of other holes that need to be addressed instead of wasting a top 10 pick on another QB because Minshew didnt look like an All Pro his rookie year although he was easily one of the best and arguably the best rookie QB this year

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I never said we have to use a top 10 pick. In fact I've said the opposite.

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I never said we have to use a top 10 pick. In fact I've said the opposite.

What have you said?

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I wonder if we are really letting sink in that Gardner just threw more TD's in a season then Mark ever did.

In like 13 games.  Don't give me that "different era crap" either.

Gardner threw the ball 460 times this year.  Mark had years with 557, 435, 441, 512, 473, ....

Gardner isn't throwing to Jimmy and Keenan, with Fred at running back, with  a seriously talented  Oline.

Mark only threw for 18 TDs in his best season, but in 1996 he led the league in passing yards. A lot of people forgot that he also led the league in rushing for QBs that year too.

 Minshew is not on Brunell’s level yet. 

Mark made Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell. Mark threw a beautiful ball. And he had nice touch. The greatest offensive play in franchise history was when Jimmy Smith faded to glory and it was because Brunell threw an absolute dime.

He also threw only 19 TDs and 20 INTs that year and had 4300 yards. With Jimmy and Keenan.

Minshew threw for 3200 in 13.5 games which is about 3800 on a season.

Give me an extrapolated 3800 yards, 25 Tds, and 7 INTs over that anyday. Not to mention they were about dead even on rushing yards.

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These are Minshew's numbers:

http://www.nfl.com/player/gardnerminshew...areerstats

These are Deshaun Watson's:

http://www.nfl.com/player/deshaunwatson/...areerstats

and for fun, here is Daniel Jones's and Kyler Murray's:

http://www.nfl.com/player/danieljones/25...areerstats
http://www.nfl.com/player/kylermurray/25...areerstats

If there's another rookie QB out there that had to start i'm not remembering who it is right now. But Murray was expected to start, and so was Danny Dimes at some point, if i'm not mistaken. I'm not gonna say Minshew is the QB this team has been looking for for all these years, but when you look at these stats, I see a guy who came out of nowhere as a sixth rounder and performed admirably, given all of the turmoil that Jacksonville has had to deal with this season. This kid is a competent starter, right now. Over time Murray and Jones's ceilings may be higher, but that's for the future to decide, not the now. Jacksonville has to repair other holes first before just going out and grabbing another QB.

I think Minshew deserves a chance to prove his hold on the starting reigns in the preseason next year, battling it out with Foles. There will already be discussions about who should start between him and Foles as it is; I don't see how throwing in another rookie QB will help things.

Right now, call me on board with Minshew. He's been better than any other young QB brought onto this team in a long time.

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These are Minshew's numbers:

http://www.nfl.com/player/gardnerminshew...areerstats

These are Deshaun Watson's:

http://www.nfl.com/player/deshaunwatson/...areerstats

and for fun, here is Daniel Jones's and Kyler Murray's:

http://www.nfl.com/player/danieljones/25...areerstats
http://www.nfl.com/player/kylermurray/25...areerstats

If there's another rookie QB out there that had to start i'm not remembering who it is right now. But Murray was expected to start, and so was Danny Dimes at some point, if i'm not mistaken. I'm not gonna say Minshew is the QB this team has been looking for for all these years, but when you look at these stats, I see a guy who came out of nowhere as a sixth rounder and performed admirably, given all of the turmoil that Jacksonville has had to deal with this season. This kid is a competent starter, right now. Over time Murray and Jones's ceilings may be higher, but that's for the future to decide, not the now. Jacksonville has to repair other holes first before just going out and grabbing another QB.

I think Minshew deserves a chance to prove his hold on the starting reigns in the preseason next year, battling it out with Foles. There will already be discussions about who should start between him and Foles as it is; I don't see how throwing in another rookie QB will help things.

Right now, call me on board with Minshew. He's been better than any other young QB brought onto this team in a long time.

And since everyone wants to talk wins as a starter:

GM: 6-6
KM: 5-10-1
DJ: 3-9

Other recent QBs as Rookies:

Watson: 3-3
Wentz: 7-9
Baker: 6-10
Allen: 5-6
Dak: 13-3
Goff: 7-7

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These are Minshew's numbers:

http://www.nfl.com/player/gardnerminshew...areerstats

These are Deshaun Watson's:

http://www.nfl.com/player/deshaunwatson/...areerstats

and for fun, here is Daniel Jones's and Kyler Murray's:

http://www.nfl.com/player/danieljones/25...areerstats
http://www.nfl.com/player/kylermurray/25...areerstats

If there's another rookie QB out there that had to start i'm not remembering who it is right now. But Murray was expected to start, and so was Danny Dimes at some point, if i'm not mistaken. I'm not gonna say Minshew is the QB this team has been looking for for all these years, but when you look at these stats, I see a guy who came out of nowhere as a sixth rounder and performed admirably, given all of the turmoil that Jacksonville has had to deal with this season. This kid is a competent starter, right now. Over time Murray and Jones's ceilings may be higher, but that's for the future to decide, not the now. Jacksonville has to repair other holes first before just going out and grabbing another QB.

I think Minshew deserves a chance to prove his hold on the starting reigns in the preseason next year, battling it out with Foles. There will already be discussions about who should start between him and Foles as it is; I don't see how throwing in another rookie QB will help things.

Right now, call me on board with Minshew. He's been better than any other young QB brought onto this team in a long time.

Haskins eventually started this year and was underwhelming.
Drew Lock finally got some games in and actually played very well going 3-1 and tossing for a lil over 1k yards with a solid TD:INT ratio.

I'm on board with Minshew in the short term for sure. Let's get the OL and some other key spots (TE, back 7 on D) retooled and see what happens in 2020, and see if maybe QB needs to be addressed then.

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I think Minshew showed a lot yesterday. He had a few rough games this year but he IS a rookie with a bad line, mediocre receivers, and no TE play. Every QB, even hall of famers, have rough games. I like the accuracy he has, the decisions he makes, and the energy he adds to the team. I also don't see him becoming a distraction or adding unneeded drama which this team is desperately in need of.

Give Minshew the keys next year and build around him in the off season.

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Here we go again