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Team needs

#61

(03-20-2020, 09:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
We need: 

CB1 
NT
LT
RG
WR 
TE
FS
c.o.p. RB

you could re-order those a number of ways and it would still make sense and if Yan is traded or sits, add DE

CB1  -  Henderson  -  well-addressed
NT -  Hamilton plus the free agent signings  - fairly-well-addressed
LT  - Bartch?  - meh, somewhat addressed with an upside development guy that will likely play guard
RG -  Bartch?  He's more likely to push Cann than Robinson short term, so.... "Somewhat addressed" 
WR  - addressed  - Johnson and Shenault both have big upside and were good value at their selections
TE - Eifert was the biggest move and the sixth rounder will be a crapshoot -  "fairly-well-addressed"
FS  - Sort-of-addressed - Comes down to an UDFA with upside and a SS fifth rounder set to compete w/ Wilson
c.o.p. R-Back  -  Somewhat ddressed. Thompson signing covers 3rd down receiving and a scat-back type can still be added during camp cuts. 
DE - Well-addressed - Chaisson

Overall - it was O-Line and FS that took a back seat to other positions of need, but so far the Jags have added players to nearly every need.  Which are able to make an impact right away will be crucial to the team's success.

How is everyone feeling about needs being addressed?  
Where are we still lacking? 
Which picks were unforgivable reaches?
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#62

(05-18-2020, 10:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-20-2020, 09:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
We need: 

CB1 
NT
LT
RG
WR 
TE
FS
c.o.p. RB

you could re-order those a number of ways and it would still make sense and if Yan is traded or sits, add DE

CB1  -  Henderson  -  well-addressed
NT -  Hamilton plus the free agent signings  - fairly-well-addressed
LT  - Bartch?  - meh, somewhat addressed with an upside development guy that will likely play guard
RG -  Bartch?  He's more likely to push Cann than Robinson short term, so.... "Somewhat addressed" 
WR  - addressed  - Johnson and Shenault both have big upside and were good value at their selections
TE - Eifert was the biggest move and the sixth rounder will be a crapshoot -  "fairly-well-addressed"
FS  - Sort-of-addressed - Comes down to an UDFA with upside and a SS fifth rounder set to compete w/ Wilson
c.o.p. R-Back  -  Somewhat ddressed. Thompson signing covers 3rd down receiving and a scat-back type can still be added during camp cuts. 
DE - Well-addressed - Chaisson

Overall - it was O-Line and FS that took a back seat to other positions of need, but so far the Jags have added players to nearly every need.  Which are able to make an impact right away will be crucial to the team's success.

How is everyone feeling about needs being addressed?  
Where are we still lacking? 
Which picks were unforgivable reaches?

I think Dave took a very comprehensive approach this offseason. He gets an A alone for unloading Foles and much of his big contract. I wish he could've traded up a time or two, but he attempted to fill multiple needs by staying put. I can't fault that in retrospect given all the needs. This is a foundational rebuilding draft that will look great next year. Next year's draft will require fewer needs so the GM (Dave?) can trade up to target a handful of premium players. 

O-line is the lone remaining concern, but there's hope: it's quite possible for Bartch to displace Cann this year and be a gritty sparkplug and for Richardson to push Cam to take his game to solid start level or even capably supplant him. 

Dave probably counts Oliver as a 2020 TE draft pick since he's essentially a rookie. Someone will remain a healthy, quality TE option among the trio of Eifert, Oliver and O'Shag. They're all capable starters when healthy. 

I'm OK with not finding a blue-chip FS. Some of the early-round prospects would've been nice, but I'd rather have Shenault and Hamilton, more immediate needs. There's at least competition now for Wilson. His subpar play better not continue or a more talented, eager rookie will take over by midseason.
"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

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#63

Hamilton is probably the only one that we can expect to contribute at more than a splash here and there level this year.
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#64

(05-18-2020, 03:04 PM)Upper Wrote: Hamilton is probably the only one that we can expect to contribute at more than a splash here and there level this year.

You don’t think Henderson starts and contributes?
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#65

(05-18-2020, 03:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:04 PM)Upper Wrote: Hamilton is probably the only one that we can expect to contribute at more than a splash here and there level this year.

You don’t think Henderson starts and contributes?
I will say that Henderson better contribute or it is going to be a long season for the defense. I expect Chaisson to plenty of time on rushing downs, even if he is not a full time starter this year. As long as he is fully recovered from his surgery, I expect better than average production from Shenault. Hamilton is going to clog up the middle and if he does that, then the pick is a success imo. Barch will get time unless Cann, starts playing un-Canny. Beyond that, everyone else should be a back up for this year but I could see some definite splashes. I expect Quarterman to get some playing time on early downs and if we go to a full 3-4 base I can see him starting at one of the ILB spots. I see Johnson getting plenty of looks in the red zone as his size is too significant to not use and I think Claybrooks easily wins the returner role, even if he never plays a down of defense. The one player I am looking forward to seeing the most out of the later round picks is Tyler Davis. Watching his highlights, he is the prototypical receiving TE that this team desperately needs, even if he didn't put up big numbers in college due to playing for some really bad teams.
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#66

(05-18-2020, 03:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:04 PM)Upper Wrote: Hamilton is probably the only one that we can expect to contribute at more than a splash here and there level this year.

You don’t think Henderson starts and contributes?

I think he'll start and be pretty rough as a rookie. I think he'll be good in another year or more likely two though.
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#67

(05-18-2020, 03:49 PM)Upper Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: You don’t think Henderson starts and contributes?

I think he'll start and be pretty rough as a rookie. I think he'll be good in another year or more likely two though.

What in his games makes you think he will be pretty rough?
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#68

(05-18-2020, 03:53 PM)Dimson Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:49 PM)Upper Wrote: I think he'll start and be pretty rough as a rookie. I think he'll be good in another year or more likely two though.

What in his games makes you think he will be pretty rough?

It's not an easy position to get thrown in the first to begin with, but on top of that he needs to develop more physically and he needs to learn how to play zone coverages. Right now he will be a guy who is probably decent in man coverage but is going to get exposed in press and at the catch point.
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#69

(05-18-2020, 10:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-20-2020, 09:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
We need: 

CB1 
NT
LT
RG
WR 
TE
FS
c.o.p. RB

you could re-order those a number of ways and it would still make sense and if Yan is traded or sits, add DE

CB1  -  Henderson  -  well-addressed
NT -  Hamilton plus the free agent signings  - fairly-well-addressed
LT  - Bartch?  - meh, somewhat addressed with an upside development guy that will likely play guard
RG -  Bartch?  He's more likely to push Cann than Robinson short term, so.... "Somewhat addressed" 
WR  - addressed  - Johnson and Shenault both have big upside and were good value at their selections
TE - Eifert was the biggest move and the sixth rounder will be a crapshoot -  "fairly-well-addressed"
FS  - Sort-of-addressed - Comes down to an UDFA with upside and a SS fifth rounder set to compete w/ Wilson
c.o.p. R-Back  -  Somewhat ddressed. Thompson signing covers 3rd down receiving and a scat-back type can still be added during camp cuts. 
DE - Well-addressed - Chaisson

Overall - it was O-Line and FS that took a back seat to other positions of need, but so far the Jags have added players to nearly every need.  Which are able to make an impact right away will be crucial to the team's success.

How is everyone feeling about needs being addressed?  
Where are we still lacking? 
Which picks were unforgivable reaches?

I believe Caldwell did a good job of selecting players who will contribute greatly once they go through the normal rookie "growing pains." Henderson, Chaisson and Shenault can be very good, while Hamilton and Bartch should become long-term starters. If they can also hit on a couple of their later picks and undrafted free agents they should be in a great position to contend beginning in 2021-22. 

The positions which may need to be addressed following this season are:

Q,B.-  All depends on whether Minshew takes it to the next level this season.

LT-  Robinson needs to show he can stay healthy and be more consistent or he'll be replaced with a high draft pick.

Safety- Wilson and Harrison are o.k., but I'm anxious to see if one of their rookies shows enough to eventually replace one or both. 

R.B.- Fournette will be gone and I would expect the Jags to use a 2nd rounder on his replacement unless one of their young guys show a lot this year.


With 2 more 1st rounders (likely both top 10), they will be in a great spot to address these needs.
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#70

(05-18-2020, 04:09 PM)Upper Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 03:53 PM)Dimson Wrote: What in his games makes you think he will be pretty rough?

It's not an easy position to get thrown in the first to begin with, but on top of that he needs to develop more physically and he needs to learn how to play zone coverages. Right now he will be a guy who is probably decent in man coverage but is going to get exposed in press and at the catch point.

He is going to excel in man in my opinion. He might have issues in zone but zone eventually turns into man anyways. My biggest issue with him for me is his health. If he is healthy, he will easily be the best CB on our team. If he gets injured like last year, then he could really struggle.
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#71

(03-19-2020, 08:49 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Just curious what you feel our top 5 needs are?  Still a bunch of needs but I think we can fill most with a great draft. 

1. NT
2. RG
3. TE  FS
4. CB
5. LT

I'd agree with this list in any order with my fix.
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#72

(05-19-2020, 03:31 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote:
(03-19-2020, 08:49 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Just curious what you feel our top 5 needs are?  Still a bunch of needs but I think we can fill most with a great draft. 

1. NT
2. RG
3. TE  FS
4. CB
5. LT

I'd agree with this list in any order with my fix.

You're responding to a post from March 19th.

Do you still think NT is the greatest need on this team currently?
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#73
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2020, 09:32 AM by TheDogCatcher.)

(05-19-2020, 09:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 03:31 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: I'd agree with this list in any order with my fix.

You're responding to a post from March 19th.

Do you still think NT is the greatest need on this team currently?

Post draft it's: 

1. LT
1a. RG
2. CB 2
2a. FS

There are question marks at other positions, but good depth and competition overall.
"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

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#74

(05-19-2020, 09:29 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 09:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: You're responding to a post from March 19th.

Do you still think NT is the greatest need on this team currently?

Post draft it's: 

1. LT
1a. RG
2. CB 2
2a. FS

There are question marks at other positions, but good depth and competition overall.

Pretty good current list.


  • I'm crossing fingers and toes that Cam takes a step at LT this year, but not very optimistic. 
  • Obviously, Bartch could be a factor at RG that alters the degree of need there, but it's a question mark as of now. 
  • CB2 getting better in 2020 would require a longshot overperforming (Herndon, Scott)
  • FS like CB2 would require longshots stepping to the plate. (Wilson, Thomas, JR Reed)

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#75

To overcome CB2 and hide Henderson’s growing pains, Wash should take a page out of Belicheat’s book. Play Henderson man to man on the opponent’s #2 receiver to take him out of the game hopefully, then give the other Cornerback help over the top.
"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

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#76

(05-18-2020, 10:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(03-20-2020, 09:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
We need: 

CB1 
NT
LT
RG
WR 
TE
FS
c.o.p. RB

you could re-order those a number of ways and it would still make sense and if Yan is traded or sits, add DE

CB1  -  Henderson  -  well-addressed
NT -  Hamilton plus the free agent signings  - fairly-well-addressed
LT  - Bartch?  - meh, somewhat addressed with an upside development guy that will likely play guard
RG -  Bartch?  He's more likely to push Cann than Robinson short term, so.... "Somewhat addressed" 
WR  - addressed  - Johnson and Shenault both have big upside and were good value at their selections
TE - Eifert was the biggest move and the sixth rounder will be a crapshoot -  "fairly-well-addressed"
FS  - Sort-of-addressed - Comes down to an UDFA with upside and a SS fifth rounder set to compete w/ Wilson
c.o.p. R-Back  -  Somewhat ddressed. Thompson signing covers 3rd down receiving and a scat-back type can still be added during camp cuts. 
DE - Well-addressed - Chaisson

Overall - it was O-Line and FS that took a back seat to other positions of need, but so far the Jags have added players to nearly every need.  Which are able to make an impact right away will be crucial to the team's success.

How is everyone feeling about needs being addressed?  
Where are we still lacking? 
Which picks were unforgivable reaches?

I feel like with as many needs as we had DC did about the best he could do.
He could have probably packaged some late round picks to get more starter quality talent in fewer picks but with certain positions like LT if you didn't get one early you weren't really getting one that was an upgrade over what we've got and then we miss out on premier talent at CB and pass rusher and with FS this draft just didn't have much outside of a few early guys, and that need was certainly further down our list of needs imo.

I think where we're still lacking is CB as outside of Henderson, a rookie, we don't have much that we know of. Herdon got worked most of last season but was okay later on but then we got who knows what. But CB1 was needed and I think was addressed in a good way.
I would have loved RB addressed in the mid to late rounds this draft and they basically seemed okay standing pat with Fournete, Armstead, and Thompson. We'll see how it works out and leaves us needing RB1 next year probably.

I think WR was addressed well in a big way, allowing us to move on from guys like Lee (released), Cole (perhaps camp cut) and Conley and Westbrook after this season, however a good season and Westbrook could be retained imo. WR could be a strength of this team in the years to come.

After 2020 we could be looking at our OL as "fairly set" OR in need of many pieces. If Cam doesn't improve, LT is a huge need (I too see Bartch as a guard only at the NFL level). If Bartch can't supplant Cann, that leaves that hole unfilled as well and perhaps still needing to move on from Norwell at the other guard spot. Linder ain't getting any younger either. The OL either takes a step forward this year or perhaps needs a complete overhaul next year. But they added a guy, have a few young guys still developing (Richardson, Taylor), and have a couple vets they expect improvement on, so we'll see.

Chaisson was a solid pick. We needed to address pass rusher with the uncertainty of Yan and the exit of Calais. But the interior of the DL at NT was well addressed imo with a good draft pick and a veteran.

I don't know if we grossly over reached on any pick, I'm sure some people will say we reached for this guy or that guy, but calling a guy a reach at this point is silly, especially for us folks who know diddly about squat in the grand scheme of things.

I think Henderson plays well as a rookie and will show why he was worthy of a top ten pick. He won't be Ramsey, but we don't need him to be, we just need him to be better than Bouye was last year. I think he will be.
Chaisson won't be a starter but I think can make a few impact plays in limited snaps much in the same way Allen did last year, but perhaps not to the same 10 sack degree.
The combination of Woods/Hamilton/Schobert SHOULD improve our run D dramatically.
I think both rookie WRs could have a few big splashy plays throughout the year, even if they won't be multiple TD and 500+ yard guys as rookies.
I don't know how he could have done much better (outside of some people's opinions he should have went to LT first CB later)
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#77

Surprised more people aren't mentioning how big a need interior pressure is. They're going from multiple seasons with at least one elite pressure players inside every year (Malik, Calais) to now relying on a huge Taven Bryan breakout and whatever Smoot can offer inside for a few snaps
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#78

(05-20-2020, 10:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: Surprised more people aren't mentioning how big a need interior pressure is. They're going from multiple seasons with at least one elite pressure players inside every year (Malik, Calais) to now relying on a huge Taven Bryan breakout and whatever Smoot can offer inside for a few snaps

Taven Bryan actually played very well last year. Graded out very well according to PFF as well.
No reason to think he can't take that "next step". I mean, he won't ever be Calais, and we'll certainly miss him. But I don't think interior pass rush is going to be a glaring need for this team in the way that run D was last year. Or even as bad as OL play was. 

So I mean.... I guess you can run down the list and say "whatabout" to anything once one thing is addressed. I don't think a single NFL team is perfect in any situation. Our biggest issue was run D and CB play on defense. That's what needed to be addressed. That was addressed in a big way.
Can't fix everything in one off season. So let's see how the interior rush does in 2020 before calling it a huge need going into 2021.
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#79

(05-20-2020, 10:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: Surprised more people aren't mentioning how big a need interior pressure is. They're going from multiple seasons with at least one elite pressure players inside every year (Malik, Calais) to now relying on a huge Taven Bryan breakout and whatever Smoot can offer inside for a few snaps

The short answer as to why it's not mentioned is that interior players have been acquired and a tweak in scheme suggests interior players will be more focused on sound run defense over ability to pressure. 

Secondly, how many of Campbell's 71 pressures last year do you think came from the inside?  I'd wager it's well under 50%. 

The Taven Bryan element of this topic is an interesting one to watch, because he's actually pretty adept at getting penetration vs the pass. He's just not very instinctive to the ball once he gets past his blocker. That may develop. 

(Hamilton's profiles all suggest he'll need some time to develop before he can pressure consistently from the inside.) 

If the new acquisitions are able to keep QBs from stepping up in the pocket the Jags should have a capable enough rotation of ends to clean up.
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#80

(05-20-2020, 11:10 AM)Kane Wrote:
(05-20-2020, 10:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: Surprised more people aren't mentioning how big a need interior pressure is. They're going from multiple seasons with at least one elite pressure players inside every year (Malik, Calais) to now relying on a huge Taven Bryan breakout and whatever Smoot can offer inside for a few snaps

Taven Bryan actually played very well last year. Graded out very well according to PFF as well.
No reason to think he can't take that "next step". I mean, he won't ever be Calais, and we'll certainly miss him. But I don't think interior pass rush is going to be a glaring need for this team in the way that run D was last year. Or even as bad as OL play was. 

So I mean.... I guess you can run down the list and say "whatabout" to anything once one thing is addressed. I don't think a single NFL team is perfect in any situation. Our biggest issue was run D and CB play on defense. That's what needed to be addressed. That was addressed in a big way.
Can't fix everything in one off season. So let's see how the interior rush does in 2020 before calling it a huge need going into 2021.

PFF also said Jarrod Wilson was better in coverage than Minkah Fitzpatrick this year, so I'll pass on the grades as I've seen enough of Taven. He certainly didn't play "very well" based on the film 

Relying on a defensive tackle who's essentially played at a rotational level at best, a tweener who plays inside on limited sub packages, and a few run stoppers absolutely makes interior pressure still a need.
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