(04-15-2020, 12:43 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: For the record, again, I am not in favor of this so-called Stimulus, but here we are.

I still have mixed feelings about it. Putting money in the hands of those who need it is good. Putting raw cash into the hands of big corporations is not good. If American had kept its MD-80s flying and saved some/all of the huge amount of cash tied up in the 737 CRASH fleet that doesn't exist and probably never will now, they'd have had actual cash reserves and not gone to hell the second demand dropped. Ditto Delta. Buying a refinery is a great idea a lot of the time, but a refinery is only worth the demand for its product. If airlines aren't flying, they don't need fuel, and if they don't need fuel, Delta's refinery is dead weight...and they still don't have cash reserves. I actually have zero sympathy for airlines. If they can't turn the profits they've been raking in into cash reserves strong enough that CEOs don't have to beg employees to take unpaid leave, then they deserve to fail.

Now, zero-interest loans to large businesses while that cash is given mostly to small businesses, I'd be fine with that. In fact, I'd be in favor of that. At least with a loan, there's a good chance that most of the fake money will be converted into real money down the line. Handing out large sums of imaginary cash...no bueno. It's a great move for right now to try and nudge things in the right direction, but I pity whoever's running the show in 2023-2024 when the I-bomb hits.

(04-15-2020, 12:58 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:

(04-15-2020, 12:01 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: So you're good with the CC companies just booking the revenue? Maybe paying out a nice CEO bonus with it? Maybe those airlines can use to buy back a few billion more shares of their stock? I am not good with giving money to them, but if we are going to do so then they need to use it for the public's good. How would you suggest that e.g. Discover do that so that only financially responsible people like you get the benefit and not those losers who might have charged payroll expenses on it last month when their cash flow dried up?

That's a great question.  My position is, if a CC company is capable of using government bailout money to buy back stock or pay their CEO a bonus, then they don't need the money and they shouldn't get a bailout.  So the first thing they would have to do is prove they are actually going to go bankrupt if they don't get a bailout.  The second thing I would need to see is some sort of analysis of what would happen if they did go bankrupt.  Is it possible to just let them go bankrupt, in other words.  Capitalism ain't beanbag.  Companies have to be allowed to fail.

But what I would not do is tell the credit card company they have to lower their interest rates, because that is giving an unequal benefit, where the people with the most credit card debt get the biggest benefit.

Aren't there actually some pretty strong teeth in the stimulus package that allow the government to seize a stake in any company that uses stimulus funds to pay bonuses or dividends?

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(04-15-2020, 01:27 PM)MalabarJag Wrote:

(04-15-2020, 12:33 PM)TJBender Wrote: I mean, they keep paying Trump, so...

Not just Trump (who donates away his paycheck anyway). They should zero out the pay for every high-level government official.

I know he donates it all, but the money comes from somewhere.

I don't care if the President makes $400k and Members of Congress make $174k (mostly) per year. It's the lobbyist funding that needs to be capped. Who here really thinks that a former Raytheon employee becomes Secretary of Defense if Raytheon doesn't sink billions of dollars a year into "lobbying" efforts?

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