How foolish of me to think that the mountain of evidence, both statistical and visual, would actually convince people to believe that America has a problem with police violence against people of color.

U have the floor.  Please, demonstrate any racial motivations in this case.

Why does it matter to you?
There are a lot of vices out there.
Racial discrimination is pretty low on the list, compared to manslaughter.
Like, if I proved your wife committed adultery, would your reaction be, "ok, but at least she's not racist."

We can make a point that black people are on the short end of these things way out of proportion to their population, or their criminality, without having to prove any motive in this immediate case.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

That's just the thing isn't it? Unless an officer directly says "I'm going to kill you because you are black", you guys are just never going to admit that the terrifying number of similar incidents of violence against people of color has anything to do with racism.

I find it astounding that so many people will sign up for all manner of absurb conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence, and yet those same people are unable (or, more often, unwilling) to see something that is so blatantly clear and backed by multiple videos and statistics.

Rant over, I should have never ended my self-imposed exile from the politics section of this board, it's just not worth it.

So no evidence?

Buddy, the video itself is 'evidence'. We at least have, for the most part, all agreed that that guy used an egregious amount of force against an unarmed black man, that led to the death of that man. That in itself is a massive piece of 'evidence'.

I'll help you make your point a little clearer; the word you are looking for is 'proof'. And of course I don't have any proof. Nobody can say what was in the man's head, heart, or subconscious thoughts. All we can do is look at the actions of the man (the evidence), and try to consider those actions in the light of masses of similar pieces of evidence we have seen in the last few years.

On an individual basis almost all of these videos and cases of police brutality can be written off as 'not rascist' by anyone who is half-decent at making a high school level debate (as I know you are) and unwilling to look at the bigger picture. But anyone who is willing to look at the mountain of evidence as a whole, and is able to place it within an honest historical and sociological context, and still argues that there is not a disproportionate amount of police brutality against people of color in America is performing mental gymnastics of the highest level.

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So no evidence?

Buddy, the video itself is 'evidence'. We at least have, for the most part, all agreed that that guy used an egregious amount of force against an unarmed black man, that led to the death of that man. That in itself is a massive piece of 'evidence'.

I'll help you make your point a little clearer; the word you are looking for is 'proof'. And of course I don't have any proof. Nobody can say what was in the man's head, heart, or subconscious thoughts. All we can do is look at the actions of the man (the evidence), and try to consider those actions in the light of masses of similar pieces of evidence we have seen in the last few years.

On an individual basis almost all of these videos and cases of police brutality can be written off as 'not rascist' by anyone who is half-decent at making a high school level debate (as I know you are) and unwilling to look at the bigger picture. But anyone who is willing to look at the mountain of evidence as a whole, and is able to place it within an honest historical and sociological context, and still argues that there is not a disproportionate amount of police brutality against people of color in America is performing mental gymnastics of the highest level.

Are DB coaches racist?

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Buddy, the video itself is 'evidence'. We at least have, for the most part, all agreed that that guy used an egregious amount of force against an unarmed black man, that led to the death of that man. That in itself is a massive piece of 'evidence'.

I'll help you make your point a little clearer; the word you are looking for is 'proof'. And of course I don't have any proof. Nobody can say what was in the man's head, heart, or subconscious thoughts. All we can do is look at the actions of the man (the evidence), and try to consider those actions in the light of masses of similar pieces of evidence we have seen in the last few years.

On an individual basis almost all of these videos and cases of police brutality can be written off as 'not rascist' by anyone who is half-decent at making a high school level debate (as I know you are) and unwilling to look at the bigger picture. But anyone who is willing to look at the mountain of evidence as a whole, and is able to place it within an honest historical and sociological context, and still argues that there is not a disproportionate amount of police brutality against people of color in America is performing mental gymnastics of the highest level.

Are DB coaches racist?

I'll play along with your set-up to hit me with your oh so clever high school debate trick, and answer your ridiculous question with a ridiculous answer.

Yes, I believe all DB coaches are racist.

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Are DB coaches racist?

I'll play along with your set-up to hit me with your oh so clever high school debate trick, and answer your ridiculous question with a ridiculous answer.

Yes, I believe all DB coaches are racist.

Touche.  Congratulations, uve demonstrated that you're unreasonable.

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I'll play along with your set-up to hit me with your oh so clever high school debate trick, and answer your ridiculous question with a ridiculous answer.

Yes, I believe all DB coaches are racist.

Touche.  Congratulations, uve demonstrated that you're unreasonable.

Great chat bud.

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JJ's point is that there isn't a mountain of evidence. We live in a nation of 350 million people, dude. 12% of those are black. The fact that every person in the country has a camera and can now record police brutality is a benefit to everyone. However, if we take every recording of a black man being beaten by the cops and compare it to the totality of the population and police encounters, it's not even noticeable.

Let me put this another way. If we, as a society, wanted to look at police brutality perpetrated against whites only, it would be very easy to make a case that whites were being victimized by the police. There's just as many instances (if not more), but no one cares. At least not nationally. Now, I'll be the first to admit those numbers would be skewed because the white population is about 5X more, but that's not really my point. Even if we were to look at those cases and see them on the news, my position wouldn't change. We live in a nation of 350 MILLION people. When you look at police encounters as a whole, brutality is not the norm. It just isn't. Does that mean we shouldn't correct it? Absolutely not. Hell, I am all for holding police officers accountable.

I'll go one further. If a cop was beating up a black guy, yelling the N word and literally saying I want to kill a black man today, it would not be proof that the entire system is corrupt. There are bad actors. Again. I don't know if you can wrap your brain around 350 MILLION people, but it's a lot, dude. You WILL find cases like this if you're looking for them. Punish the bad actors and stick to the facts.

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The scumbag pig who had his knee on the back of Floyd's neck should be charged with murder. He straight up murdered that man in broad daylight, in front of multiple people. 

Even when other LEOs/EMTs showed up and tried to finally check for a pulse, he still wouldn't take his knee off of his neck. It was flat out sickening to watch.

The other 3 police officers should all be charged with accessory to murder for sitting/standing there and doing nothing while that man was slowly killed.

He was handcuffed, with 3 cops on his back. There was absolutely no reason for that cop to keep his knee on his neck for nearly 10 minutes. Especially when he went lifeless and unresponsive. He needs the book thrown at him and it needs to be thrown hard.

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JJ's point is that there isn't a mountain of evidence. We live in a nation of 350 million people, dude. 12% of those are black. The fact that every person in the country has a camera and can now record police brutality is a benefit to everyone. However, if we take every recording of a black man being beaten by the cops and compare it to the totality of the population and police encounters, it's not even noticeable.

Let me put this another way. If we, as a society, wanted to look at police brutality perpetrated against whites only, it would be very easy to make a case that whites were being victimized by the police. There's just as many instances (if not more), but no one cares. At least not nationally. Now, I'll be the first to admit those numbers would be skewed because the white population is about 5X more, but that's not really my point. Even if we were to look at those cases and see them on the news, my position wouldn't change. We live in a nation of 350 MILLION people. When you look at police encounters as a whole, brutality is not the norm. It just isn't. Does that mean we shouldn't correct it? Absolutely not. Hell, I am all for holding police officers accountable.

I'll go one further. If a cop was beating up a black guy, yelling the N word and literally saying I want to kill a black man today, it would not be proof that the entire system is  corrupt. There are bad actors. Again. I don't know if you can wrap your brain around 350 MILLION people, but it's a lot, dude. You WILL find cases like this if you're looking for them. Punish the bad actors and stick to the facts.

EXACTLY.  And to think otherwise would be to partake in the same prejudice that people claim they are "protesting!"

The answer to racism is OBJECTIVITY.  It's not taking every instance and trying to relitigate slavery.

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U have the floor.  Please, demonstrate any racial motivations in this case.

That's just the thing isn't it? Unless an officer directly says "I'm going to kill you because you are black", you guys are just never going to admit that the terrifying number of similar incidents of violence against people of color has anything to do with racism.

I find it astounding that so many people will sign up for all manner of absurb conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence, and yet those same people are unable (or, more often, unwilling) to see something that is so blatantly clear and backed by multiple videos and statistics.

Rant over, I should have never ended my self-imposed exile from the politics section of this board, it's just not worth it.

Except that your basic premise is wrong. Statistically, white suspects are killed by cops at nearly twice the rate of blacks, they just never make the headlines.

EDIT: In this case I agree that the cop should be charged with manslaughter. Too many government employees, including cops, are treated as above the law.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

JJ's point is that there isn't a mountain of evidence. We live in a nation of 350 million people, dude. 12% of those are black. The fact that every person in the country has a camera and can now record police brutality is a benefit to everyone. However, if we take every recording of a black man being beaten by the cops and compare it to the totality of the population and police encounters, it's not even noticeable.

Let me put this another way. If we, as a society, wanted to look at police brutality perpetrated against whites only, it would be very easy to make a case that whites were being victimized by the police. There's just as many instances (if not more), but no one cares. At least not nationally. Now, I'll be the first to admit those numbers would be skewed because the white population is about 5X more, but that's not really my point. Even if we were to look at those cases and see them on the news, my position wouldn't change. We live in a nation of 350 MILLION people. When you look at police encounters as a whole, brutality is not the norm. It just isn't. Does that mean we shouldn't correct it? Absolutely not. Hell, I am all for holding police officers accountable.

I'll go one further. If a cop was beating up a black guy, yelling the N word and literally saying I want to kill a black man today, it would not be proof that the entire system is  corrupt. There are bad actors. Again. I don't know if you can wrap your brain around 350 MILLION people, but it's a lot, dude. You WILL find cases like this if you're looking for them. Punish the bad actors and stick to the facts.

Has anyone actually studied that?
Don't we have to look at every use of force to see which ones might have been excessive?
Could be a lot of video. Are there enough minutes in the day to study it? Remember each year is 525,600 minutes. Less than a million minutes in a year.
Does anyone know how many instances of brutality still go unrecorded?
You're the one who asked me to ponder the millions of people there are in this country and their millions of interactions with police.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

JJ's point is that there isn't a mountain of evidence. We live in a nation of 350 million people, dude. 12% of those are black. The fact that every person in the country has a camera and can now record police brutality is a benefit to everyone. However, if we take every recording of a black man being beaten by the cops and compare it to the totality of the population and police encounters, it's not even noticeable.

Let me put this another way. If we, as a society, wanted to look at police brutality perpetrated against whites only, it would be very easy to make a case that whites were being victimized by the police. There's just as many instances (if not more), but no one cares. At least not nationally. Now, I'll be the first to admit those numbers would be skewed because the white population is about 5X more, but that's not really my point. Even if we were to look at those cases and see them on the news, my position wouldn't change. We live in a nation of 350 MILLION people. When you look at police encounters as a whole, brutality is not the norm. It just isn't. Does that mean we shouldn't correct it? Absolutely not. Hell, I am all for holding police officers accountable.

I'll go one further. If a cop was beating up a black guy, yelling the N word and literally saying I want to kill a black man today, it would not be proof that the entire system is  corrupt. There are bad actors. Again. I don't know if you can wrap your brain around 350 MILLION people, but it's a lot, dude. You WILL find cases like this if you're looking for them. Punish the bad actors and stick to the facts.

Has anyone actually studied that?
Don't we have to look at every use of force to see which ones might have been excessive?
Could be a lot of video. Are there enough minutes in the day to study it?  Remember each year is 525,600 minutes.  Less than a million minutes in a year.
Does anyone know how many instances of brutality still go unrecorded?
You're the one who asked me to ponder the millions of people there are in this country and their millions of interactions with police.

Not a case by case study, but a statistical overview.

Link

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

We did look at it. A few years ago. It was done by a black professor at Harvard, and he was surprised by the results. Of course, it was met with a backlash by the SJW community, and he had to walk it back. But the data was very interesting.

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We did look at it. A few years ago. It was done by a black professor at Harvard, and he was surprised by the results. Of course, it was met with a backlash by the SJW community, and he had to walk it back. But the data was very interesting.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/public...-use-force

Is that it?

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Has anyone actually studied that?
Don't we have to look at every use of force to see which ones might have been excessive?
Could be a lot of video. Are there enough minutes in the day to study it?  Remember each year is 525,600 minutes.  Less than a million minutes in a year.
Does anyone know how many instances of brutality still go unrecorded?
You're the one who asked me to ponder the millions of people there are in this country and their millions of interactions with police.

Not a case by case study, but a statistical overview.

Link

That link is hard to follow, could use an abstract I guess.  It seems to be talking about total violent or deadly police interactions.  But some police violence is inevitable and necessary.  Shouldn't we be trying to look at *excessive* force, rather than just force in total? Maybe we can't.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

https://www.creators.com/read/thomas-sow...ps-part-ii

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People are rioting again and it's not just 1 race now, liberals are joining in.

If you claim cops are racist, how do you fix it? You can change how people "feel" quickly and it's something liberals use all the time. They conditioned a race to feel inferior because of racism (which they committed), so now they cannot get past their feelings. Are cops going to have to look the other way and only arrest people that match their skin color? Do cops pull out of Black neighborhoods (where people complain their is too much crime yet don't help the police remove the criminal elements)? I'm starting to think that liberals really want to bring segregation back. Instead of dealing with the individual people, everyone wants to label people now and make it about everyone in that label has/does the things instead of the individuals just being wrong/bad.

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Racism? Maybe, more likely a case of profiling. Homicide? Yes. Whatever led up to that moment was irrelevant. I don't care if Floyd was running around screaming that he had a gun and was going to murder every pig in sight (he didn't, he wasn't). He was incapacitated on the ground, not resisting anything, and he was unable to breathe, told the officers as much, and an officer continued to put his weight onto the knee that was resting atop Floyd's throat. Here's how I see that: second degree murder. Gross disregard toward human life, check. Willful act causing death, check. Intent? Well [BLEEP], if you're gonna drop a knee on someone's throat and hold it there as they're pretty well limp and telling you they can't breathe, and you continue to leave your knee there despite receiving all kinds of training that theoretically means you can recognize a person in distress, well, that's a person taking willful action that ends the life of another human being. Not premeditated and I highly doubt that pig woke up in the morning and decided to kill a black guy that day. But all the same, he was willfully putting his weight on a knee that was pinning his victim's neck, and despite there being no video evidence of Floyd resisting, he apparently refused to take his knee off of Floyd's neck until he died as a direct result of that pig's action.

Cops vs. pigs. The ones that protect and serve are cops. The ones that drop a knee on a defenseless man's neck and slowly but surely murder him? Oink oink, smells like bacon. Bad pig, no donut.

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How foolish of me to think that the mountain of evidence, both statistical and visual, would actually convince people to believe that America has a problem with police violence against people of color who resist arrest.

Fixed it 4 ya.

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How foolish of me to think that the mountain of evidence, both statistical and visual, would actually convince people to believe that America has a problem with police violence against people of color who resist arrest.

Fixed it 4 ya.

Except that there's video showing Floyd not resisting anything. It's funny how unrelated video in the Arbery case somehow exonorates (or at least strongly mitigates) three white men cornering and murdering a black man, but the video we have here of a pig kneeling on the neck of a man who was compliant while three other officers look on doesn't matter. Even if we go to the extreme and say that he was somehow, at some point, resisting arrest, kneeling on his neck until he dies is not the sort of tactic taught at the police academy.

Frankly, I think law enforcement in this country could use an enema.

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That's just the thing isn't it? Unless an officer directly says "I'm going to kill you because you are black", you guys are just never going to admit that the terrifying number of similar incidents of violence against people of color has anything to do with racism.

I find it astounding that so many people will sign up for all manner of absurb conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence, and yet those same people are unable (or, more often, unwilling) to see something that is so blatantly clear and backed by multiple videos and statistics.

Rant over, I should have never ended my self-imposed exile from the politics section of this board, it's just not worth it.

Stick around man.  Don't let the bastards get you down. Gets lonely around here when people with empathy keep running away in horror.

Empathy is not using emotion as evidence.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato