I really struggle understanding people who buy into promises of perfection. Every issue that elevates socialist policies is based on the lie that our system is bad, but their system will be perfect. It doesn't matter that we live in a nation of 350 million people and have extremely low rates of police brutality, racism, and violence. That we have achieved relatively low rates of crime. That we live in one of the most diverse countries on the planet. That our poorest people are among the wealthiest in the world. That socialism has failed every where it's been tried. That there will be no nation to save us from tyranny should this new Utopia fail us. None of that matters, because people get sold a product that exploits emotions and promises us perfection, with zero proof.

You are more obsessed with socialism than anyone I've ever met. What does any of that have to do with this thread? Show me someone who is "promising perfection"...

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If he turns around to use it, then shoot him. What would you do?

Not kill a person.

You always respond but never have an actual answer.

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Not kill a person.

You always respond but never have an actual answer.

I would try to apprehend the suspect without killing him.

It's really [BLEEP] simple: don't kill someone unless they are clearly posing a threat to the lives of others and it is absolutely unavoidable.

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Not kill a person.

You always respond but never have an actual answer.

Both shots hit the suspect in the back.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You always respond but never have an actual answer.

Both shots hit the suspect in the back.

So just let him go? The guy who just tried to shoot the cops with their own weapon?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Both shots hit the suspect in the back.

So just let him go? The guy who just tried to shoot the cops with their own weapon?

Why is it one or the other though? Try to apprehend him without killing him. There were two cops there right? There are a thousand different ways to proceed without shooting a man in the back and killing him. And ultimately, if it comes down to the only two options being kill him, or he escapes, then yes the option of him escaping is the better option, because, y'know, nobody has to die because a drunk guy fell asleep at a [BLEEP] wendies.

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So just let him go? The guy who just tried to shoot the cops with their own weapon?

Why is it one or the other though? Try to apprehend him without killing him. There were two cops there right? There are a thousand different ways to proceed without shooting a man in the back and killing him. And ultimately, if it comes down to the only two options being kill him, or he escapes, then yes the option of him escaping is the better option, because, y'know, nobody has to die because a drunk guy fell asleep at a [BLEEP] wendies.

A man who physically attacked the cops who politely tried to arrest him, who took a weapon from them, who turned around and shot at them with it, is not a person who should be allowed to get away. Fight and shoot at the cops and you get killed, this is not rocket science except to people who continually want to excuse escalating criminal behavior. This "poor poor criminal who didn't deserve what he earned himself" is getting tiresome to people who would never consider doing the things he did to get shot. Obey the law, don't fight the cops, damn well don't use a weapon against them...this isn't complicated unless you have some ulterior motive to excuse the behavior of the criminals.

And oh, hey, let's burn down the [BLEEP] Wendy's like it was their fault. Christ this is getting ridiculous.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I really struggle understanding people who buy into promises of perfection. Every issue that elevates socialist policies is based on the lie that our system is bad, but their system will be perfect. It doesn't matter that we live in a nation of 350 million people and have extremely low rates of police brutality, racism, and violence. That we have achieved relatively low rates of crime. That we live in one of the most diverse countries on the planet. That our poorest people are among the wealthiest in the world. That socialism has failed every where it's been tried. That there will be no nation to save us from tyranny should this new Utopia fail us. None of that matters, because people get sold a product that exploits emotions and promises us perfection, with zero proof.

You are more obsessed with socialism than anyone I've ever met. What does any of that have to do with this thread? Show me someone who is "promising perfection"...

That is what is being sold. 

I have, for years, been studying history, philosophy, and politics. I have known that this was a push from the left, but it has only been recently that the veil has been pulled back far enough that I see ingrained these groups have become in American institutions and how close we are to a political revolution. I admit I have been obsessed as of late. I have come to believe the  tide is inevitable, and it is disheartening. Not sure it will matter moving forward.

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Is anyone here a police officer? It's easy to nitpick when it's not your life on the line. Unless or until you're a police officer who has been in the chaos you don't know jack about how you'd respond under similar conditions. 

I always find it interesting to hear folks say, "oh I'd never do that." That just tells me you don't know yourself as well as you think you do. Given the perfect storm of circumstances we are all capable of doing that thing we swear we'd never do.

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Is anyone here a police officer? It's easy to nitpick when it's not your life on the line. Unless or until you're a police officer who has been in the chaos you don't know jack about how you'd respond under similar conditions. 

I always find it interesting to hear folks say, "oh I'd never do that." That just tells me you don't know yourself as well as you think you do. Given the perfect storm of circumstances we are all capable of doing that thing we swear we'd never do.

I'm not in that category.
I see people doing bad stuff and usually say, "I can see myself doing that."
Depending on how stressed out or scared I was. 
"There but by the grace of God go I."
Still think we have an obligation to punish those who do wrong, regardless of if we sympathize with them.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

This is not the death to take a stand on for anyone.

If you hit a cop and reach for his weapon you die.. and it doesn't matter what race you are.

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Is anyone here a police officer? It's easy to nitpick when it's not your life on the line. Unless or until you're a police officer who has been in the chaos you don't know jack about how you'd respond under similar conditions. 

I always find it interesting to hear folks say, "oh I'd never do that." That just tells me you don't know yourself as well as you think you do. Given the perfect storm of circumstances we are all capable of doing that thing we swear we'd never do.

I know I'd never kill someone as a cop because I wouldn't work as a corrupt little piggy

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Is anyone here a police officer? It's easy to nitpick when it's not your life on the line. Unless or until you're a police officer who has been in the chaos you don't know jack about how you'd respond under similar conditions. 

I always find it interesting to hear folks say, "oh I'd never do that." That just tells me you don't know yourself as well as you think you do. Given the perfect storm of circumstances we are all capable of doing that thing we swear we'd never do.

I know I'd never kill someone as a cop because I wouldn't work as a corrupt little piggy

But I'm sure you would call one if your significant other were being raped by an intruder.

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The bottom line here is the suspect got exactly what he deserved according to his choices and actions.

A lot of people like to play the "what if" game, so here's my take on it.  What if the guy had not resisted, complied and went to jail?  He would be alive today and with his family albeit with hefty fines and court appearances in front of him.  What if the guy somehow got away or was never contacted by the officers?  Would he (or perhaps someone else) be dead today because he chose to get behind the wheel of a car while drunk?

Whether you think it is or it isn't, attacking a police officer with a Tazer, baton or a knife is considered a deadly threat.  Yes he was shot in the back but at that point he had already chosen to break several laws that are a threat not only to the police officers, but to the community as well.

BLM, the media and many "protesters" will and are trying to characterize this as "white police officers killed an innocent black man".  That is simply not the case.

As far as just "letting him go" and waiting for him to come and get his car...  that has to be one of the dumbest suggestions I've ever heard.  Is someone that has no regard for human life (DUI, assaulting police, resisting arrest, threatening police) really going to turn themselves in?

Once again the bottom line is the suspect chose to escalate the situation and chose to make a decision that ultimately cost him his life.  Both police officers are innocent of any crime.  Quite frankly if I was still in the profession I would seriously consider changing my career choice given how public perception is right now.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

someone that has no regard for human life

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Why is it one or the other though? Try to apprehend him without killing him. There were two cops there right? There are a thousand different ways to proceed without shooting a man in the back and killing him. And ultimately, if it comes down to the only two options being kill him, or he escapes, then yes the option of him escaping is the better option, because, y'know, nobody has to die because a drunk guy fell asleep at a [BLEEP] wendies.

A man who physically attacked the cops who politely tried to arrest him, who took a weapon from them, who turned around and shot at them with it, is not a person who should be allowed to get away. Fight and shoot at the cops and you get killed, this is not rocket science except to people who continually want to excuse escalating criminal behavior. This "poor poor criminal who didn't deserve what he earned himself" is getting tiresome to people who would never consider doing the things he did to get shot. Obey the law, don't fight the cops, damn well don't use a weapon against them...this isn't complicated unless you have some ulterior motive to excuse the behavior of the criminals.

And oh, hey, let's burn down the [BLEEP] Wendy's like it was their fault. Christ this is getting ridiculous.

I agree with what FSG says here.  Actions have consequences, and those consequences might not always be equal in severity to the action.

Assuming alcohol or whatever else the guy was lit up with gave his cerebellum the green light to attack the cops, he is responsible for his actions unless he was forcibly intoxicated by others which no one is claiming.

Same thing with a round fired from a gun in your hand...you are responsible for any and all damage that bullet does until it comes to rest.  So, take extreme precaution before you act in such a manner.

If my brother robbed a bank tomorrow and got shot & killed while running away from the cops, you wouldn’t see me protesting over it.  Same goes if my brother hit a cop in the head with a bat and then got killed while running away.

Bottom line is don’t be stupid.

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"We believe in victory!"   - Gus Bradley
"I don't want to believe.  I want to know."   - Carl Sagan

I know I'd never kill someone as a cop because I wouldn't work as a corrupt little piggy

But I'm sure you would call one if your significant other were being raped by an intruder.

That would not be a situation where I'd call the police

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The bottom line here is the suspect got exactly what he deserved according to his choices and actions.

A lot of people like to play the "what if" game, so here's my take on it.  What if the guy had not resisted, complied and went to jail?  He would be alive today and with his family albeit with hefty fines and court appearances in front of him.  What if the guy somehow got away or was never contacted by the officers?  Would he (or perhaps someone else) be dead today because he chose to get behind the wheel of a car while drunk?

Whether you think it is or it isn't, attacking a police officer with a Tazer, baton or a knife is considered a deadly threat.  Yes he was shot in the back but at that point he had already chosen to break several laws that are a threat not only to the police officers, but to the community as well.

BLM, the media and many "protesters" will and are trying to characterize this as "white police officers killed an innocent black man".  That is simply not the case.

As far as just "letting him go" and waiting for him to come and get his car...  that has to be one of the dumbest suggestions I've ever heard.  Is someone that has no regard for human life (DUI, assaulting police, resisting arrest, threatening police) really going to turn themselves in?

Once again the bottom line is the suspect chose to escalate the situation and chose to make a decision that ultimately cost him his life.  Both police officers are innocent of any crime.  Quite frankly if I was still in the profession I would seriously consider changing my career choice given how public perception is right now.

I disagree.  I don't think police officers should be judge, jury, and executioner of a death sentence for resisting arrest or fleeing.  And in this case, I don't think a drunk trying to hit an officer with a taser while running away is enough of an imminent threat to justify pulling a pistol and shooting the guy.

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The bottom line here is the suspect got exactly what he deserved according to his choices and actions.

A lot of people like to play the "what if" game, so here's my take on it.  What if the guy had not resisted, complied and went to jail?  He would be alive today and with his family albeit with hefty fines and court appearances in front of him.  What if the guy somehow got away or was never contacted by the officers?  Would he (or perhaps someone else) be dead today because he chose to get behind the wheel of a car while drunk?

Whether you think it is or it isn't, attacking a police officer with a Tazer, baton or a knife is considered a deadly threat.  Yes he was shot in the back but at that point he had already chosen to break several laws that are a threat not only to the police officers, but to the community as well.

BLM, the media and many "protesters" will and are trying to characterize this as "white police officers killed an innocent black man".  That is simply not the case.

As far as just "letting him go" and waiting for him to come and get his car...  that has to be one of the dumbest suggestions I've ever heard.  Is someone that has no regard for human life (DUI, assaulting police, resisting arrest, threatening police) really going to turn themselves in?

Once again the bottom line is the suspect chose to escalate the situation and chose to make a decision that ultimately cost him his life.  Both police officers are innocent of any crime.  Quite frankly if I was still in the profession I would seriously consider changing my career choice given how public perception is right now.

I disagree.  I don't think police officers should be judge, jury, and executioner of a death sentence for resisting arrest or fleeing.  And in this case, I don't think a drunk trying to hit an officer with a taser while running away is enough of an imminent threat to justify pulling a pistol and shooting the guy.

The rules are pretty simple here...

Don't touch a cop. Don't touch the weapon of a cop.

Either of those things, in theory, can get you killed.

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I disagree.  I don't think police officers should be judge, jury, and executioner of a death sentence for resisting arrest or fleeing.  And in this case, I don't think a drunk trying to hit an officer with a taser while running away is enough of an imminent threat to justify pulling a pistol and shooting the guy.

The rules are pretty simple here...

Don't touch a cop. Don't touch the weapon of a cop.

Either of those things, in theory, can get you killed.

The number of people who accept the above in this country is staggering.

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