Were subsidizing the inflation that makes it impossible to afford college in the first place.

Very true. Now some schools are addressing that concern with tuition freezes, but that's only after tuition more than doubled over the last 10 years with it's 8% annual increases.

Exactly!   Basic economics.  Let the producer (institutions) take responsibility for their own debt.  Then they'll be more careful about lending someone 120k for a degree in gender studies or worse 60k for a few semesters before they drop out. 

This entire "crisis" is a chronic missallocation of credit and capital based on the false emotional presupposition that EVERYONE should or needs to go to a 4 year brick and mortar university.

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I have a liberal arts degree and a business degree.  And I agree with you.  I'm glad I have a liberal arts degree.  

But I do not think we should loan people money who cannot or will not pay it back.  And certainly the taxpayers should not voluntarily foot the bill for people's unpaid debts.  It's unfair to the people who have paid off their debts or people who never incurred the debt in the first place.  I don't want the government to bail people out for their bad judgment.  If we get the government out of the college loan business, and leave it to the free market, then more intelligent decisions will be made about whom to loan the money to.  

So I am completely against forgiving student loans.

Yet you voted for the candidate who openly campaigned on forgiving them.

I don't want to rehash the election.  I will just say, I don't necessarily agree with everything either side proposes.

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I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

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I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

I kind-of look at SS the way I look at my union pension fund which is in critical status after they invested w/ Bernie Madoff. 

I'll get something - but it probably ain't gonna be what they owe me. 

I also believe that reducing the price of education and zero interest/very low interest loans are a much better way to deal with student loan debt than outright forgiveness.

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I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

If you were in the position of facing that kind of punitive action with any other loan you could declare bankruptcy and legally have yourself out of that jam in seven years. Student loans are not dischargeable that way, another link in the unbreakable chain of debt slavery for a good many of these people. The simple fact that mandates some action on this is that money that cannot be paid back simply will not be paid back. Either deal with it now and reform the whole system or deal with it later when the whole economy crashes because of the deficit, but one way or the other we will have to deal with that fact.

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I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

I kind-of look at SS the way I look at my union pension fund which is in critical status after they invested w/ Bernie Madoff. 

I'll get something - but it probably ain't gonna be what they owe me. 

I also believe that reducing the price of education and zero interest/very low interest loans are a much better way to deal with student loan debt than outright forgiveness.

Unfortunately playing the interest game doesn't really do anything to curb the increasing costs associated with an education.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

I kind-of look at SS the way I look at my union pension fund which is in critical status after they invested w/ Bernie Madoff. 

I'll get something - but it probably ain't gonna be what they owe me. 

I also believe that reducing the price of education and zero interest/very low interest loans are a much better way to deal with student loan debt than outright forgiveness.

Oof. No kidding? That's rough.

The price of education shot up when the government got into the loan business. Universities figured out they could charge extravagant prices riding on government subsidized loans (exempt from bankruptcy discharge)  and the popular belief that a college education was absolutely essential for sustainment and success. All while manufacturing jobs were being sent overseas and the emphasis on vocational/technical education was taken from high schools. 

Speaking of Bernie Madoff, universities are as complicit as him for fleecing clients.

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I kind-of look at SS the way I look at my union pension fund which is in critical status after they invested w/ Bernie Madoff. 

I'll get something - but it probably ain't gonna be what they owe me. 

I also believe that reducing the price of education and zero interest/very low interest loans are a much better way to deal with student loan debt than outright forgiveness.

Oof. No kidding? That's rough.

The price of education shot up when the government got into the loan business. Universities figured out they could charge extravagant prices riding on government subsidized loans (exempt from bankruptcy discharge)  and the popular belief that a college education was absolutely essential for sustainment and success. All while manufacturing jobs were being sent overseas and the emphasis on vocational/technical education was taken from high schools. 

Speaking of Bernie Madoff, universities are as complicit as him for fleecing clients.

Yes, no kidding. 
They didn't go all in w/Madoff and the majority of their losses were from the same kind of mismanagement that has dozens of similar funds in jeopardy, but yeah, it happened. I started getting letters from them about the fund's problems in 2009 and they get a little worse every year. 

Agreed on the rest of your post.

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I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

I kind-of look at SS the way I look at my union pension fund which is in critical status after they invested w/ Bernie Madoff. 

I'll get something - but it probably ain't gonna be what they owe me. 

I also believe that reducing the price of education and zero interest/very low interest loans are a much better way to deal with student loan debt than outright forgiveness.

I hear ya about your Union Pension...They did the same thing in my Union... Some of us are still grandfathered in with a pension, but it's capped, and they replaced it with a 401k which the employer contributes .75 for every regular hour we work. It used to be every hour including OT but we have unlimited overtime so they stopped contributions on OT hours. I agree the price of education is too high.

I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

If you were in the position of facing that kind of punitive action with any other loan you could declare bankruptcy and legally have yourself out of that jam in seven years. Student loans are not dischargeable that way, another link in the unbreakable chain of debt slavery for a good many of these people. The simple fact that mandates some action on this is that money that cannot be paid back simply will not be paid back. Either deal with it now and reform the whole system or deal with it later when the whole economy crashes because of the deficit, but one way or the other we will have to deal with that fact.



Actually student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy...If you have a Government backed student loan, no UNLESS you refinance the loan through a company such as Fedloan which actually buys your government backed loan and pays it off, and then they issue you a new loan on the remaining portion. Once they pay the original loan off with the original loan provider, the government backing is no longer in place because the original loan is paid off in full and you now have a loan with a little higher interest and monthly payment but no government backing. My former father in law is a bankruptcy lawyer and tried to get my now ex wife and I to file bankruptcy prior to our divorce and he recommends people to refinance their student loans so they can be discharged in Bankruptcy... IDK if it works with chapter 7 but it does with Chapter 13. The key to making it work, is finding a company that actually buys the government backed loan in full by paying it off... 

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I kind-of look at SS the way I look at my union pension fund which is in critical status after they invested w/ Bernie Madoff. 

I'll get something - but it probably ain't gonna be what they owe me. 

I also believe that reducing the price of education and zero interest/very low interest loans are a much better way to deal with student loan debt than outright forgiveness.

Unfortunately playing the interest game doesn't really do anything to curb the increasing costs associated with an education.

---

I don't want to see any forgiveness to those that chose to go to private universities or out of state universities when the option of going to a much lower cost in-state public university option was available. I mean, why should a person who opted for Rollins College ($51,000/year) or University of Georgia ($31,000) get a break when they could have gone to UCF or another in-state university for ($6,500/year). At an absolutioe maximum, they should only get relief to the extent of the cost of in-state tuition

---

I feel that there will always be some kind of Social Security. I think they will eventually do away with SS but replace it with something else. Something I havent seen anyone mention yet, is SS is not just retirement, it's also disability SSI and SSD. So if some of these people are excluded from SS retirement, are they excluded from SSI and SSD as well?

I'm 54 so I'm old school...these people made the decision to take out the loan and they should be forced to pay it back. Garnish their wages, take their tax return, place liens on their property (if they own any). Take it back just as they take Child Support.

That being said, colleges should be held accountable for the incredibly expensive "education" they provide along with these Bull [BLEEP] degrees that there are no damn jobs for.

I kind-of look at SS the way I look at my union pension fund which is in critical status after they invested w/ Bernie Madoff. 

I'll get something - but it probably ain't gonna be what they owe me. 

I also believe that reducing the price of education and zero interest/very low interest loans are a much better way to deal with student loan debt than outright forgiveness.

I don't want to see any forgiveness to those that chose to go to private universities or out of state universities when the option of going to a much lower cost in-state public university option was available.  I mean, why should a person who opted for Rollins College ($51,000/year) or University of Georgia ($31,000) get a break when they could have gone to UCF or another in-state university for ($6,500/year).  At an absolutioe  maximum, they should only get relief to the extent of the cost of in-state tuition

I don't see why they should get any relief at all other than a hardship situation. You dont get that for any other loan you signed a promissory note for such as car loans or mortgages or personal loans...They applied for the loan, were granted a loan, received at least part of a college education, and they should have to pay it back...It's not like they can repo the knowledge (if any) they gained and sell it at an auction to recoup their money, so the loan company should at least get their money back.

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I don't want to see any forgiveness to those that chose to go to private universities or out of state universities when the option of going to a much lower cost in-state public university option was available.  I mean, why should a person who opted for Rollins College ($51,000/year) or University of Georgia ($31,000) get a break when they could have gone to UCF or another in-state university for ($6,500/year).  At an absolutioe  maximum, they should only get relief to the extent of the cost of in-state tuition

No relief.  No forgiveness.  It's a reward for irresponsibility.  

And get the government out of the college loan business.  Make the lender financially responsible for the outcome of that loan.  That will make them a lot more careful about whom they loan money to.

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I don't want to see any forgiveness to those that chose to go to private universities or out of state universities when the option of going to a much lower cost in-state public university option was available.  I mean, why should a person who opted for Rollins College ($51,000/year) or University of Georgia ($31,000) get a break when they could have gone to UCF or another in-state university for ($6,500/year).  At an absolutioe  maximum, they should only get relief to the extent of the cost of in-state tuition

No relief.  No forgiveness.  It's a reward for irresponsibility.  

And get the government out of the college loan business.  Make the lender financially responsible for the outcome of that loan.  That will make them a lot more careful about whom they loan money to.

But then you'll have the usual folks saying all of those policies are racist and black and brown folks get a disproportionate number of loans compared to white folks.  Rinse and repeat.

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Here's one.  

Usually parents co-sign on student loans.  We can start the process by excluding any forgiveness in which 1 or 2 parents co-signed on the loan.  That would probably take out more than half of the student loan population.

We could then add other exclusions until there's only 3 or 4 people that qualify; hopefully 1 Caucasian person, 1 African American person, 1 Hispanic, and 1 Asian ... of the 4 we could also include 1 male, 1 female, one transgender, and one person that is gay or lesbian.  Then we can state we passed the Loan Forgiveness Policy and even did it with total equality.

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I don't want to see any forgiveness to those that chose to go to private universities or out of state universities when the option of going to a much lower cost in-state public university option was available.  I mean, why should a person who opted for Rollins College ($51,000/year) or University of Georgia ($31,000) get a break when they could have gone to UCF or another in-state university for ($6,500/year).  At an absolutioe  maximum, they should only get relief to the extent of the cost of in-state tuition

No relief.  No forgiveness.  It's a reward for irresponsibility.  

And get the government out of the college loan business.  Make the lender financially responsible for the outcome of that loan.  That will make them a lot more careful about whom they loan money to.

That assumes that it was in fact irresponsible when everyone at the time was told it was the most responsible and necessary step one could take to have a successful future.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Here's one.  

Usually parents co-sign on student loans.  We can start the process by excluding any forgiveness in which 1 or 2 parents co-signed on the loan.  That would probably take out more than half of the student loan population.

We could then add other exclusions until there's only 3 or 4 people that qualify; hopefully 1 Caucasian person, 1 African American person, 1 Hispanic, and 1 Asian ... of the 4 we could also include 1 male, 1 female, one transgender, and one person that is gay or lesbian.  Then we can state we passed the Loan Forgiveness Policy and even did it with total equality.

Here's a simple solution that is completely fair: no one gets off.  You owe what you owe, regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, age, what college you went to, how big the loan is, and whatever else you can think of.  Everyone gets treated the same.  If you took out the loan, you have to pay it back. 

Because to do otherwise is unfair to the people who either did not take out loans, and paid for college with their own hard-earned money, or took out a loan and paid it back.

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No relief.  No forgiveness.  It's a reward for irresponsibility.  

And get the government out of the college loan business.  Make the lender financially responsible for the outcome of that loan.  That will make them a lot more careful about whom they loan money to.

That assumes that it was in fact irresponsible when everyone at the time was told it was the most responsible and necessary step one could take to have a successful future.

I don't like bailing people out of their bad choices.  And how fair is it to the person who paid off their loan?  How fair is it to the person who decided to work and pay for their education without taking out a loan?

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No relief.  No forgiveness.  It's a reward for irresponsibility.  

And get the government out of the college loan business.  Make the lender financially responsible for the outcome of that loan.  That will make them a lot more careful about whom they loan money to.

But then you'll have the usual folks saying all of those policies are racist and black and brown folks get a disproportionate number of loans compared to white folks.  Rinse and repeat.

It's accurate to say that generational wealth within the majority contributes positively to their college financing while those in the minority often do not have that advantage. We've attempted to mitigate that disadvantage by other means including Affirmative Action and grant programs, but we still see a disproportionate negative impact to minorities in our system. That does need to be addresses in whatever reform we institute.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I wonder how many people complaining about student loan debt have Samsung Galaxy S21 or Apple Iphone 12's and unlimited data plans.

I wonder how many of those same people have smart watches and an extra line for that watch

I wonder how many of them have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney+, <insert paid subscription here>

I wonder how many of them have satellite radio or Spotify

I wonder how many of them are making the necessary sacrifices in order to make good on their debt.

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I don't want to see any forgiveness to those that chose to go to private universities or out of state universities when the option of going to a much lower cost in-state public university option was available.  I mean, why should a person who opted for Rollins College ($51,000/year) or University of Georgia ($31,000) get a break when they could have gone to UCF or another in-state university for ($6,500/year).  At an absolutioe  maximum, they should only get relief to the extent of the cost of in-state tuition

No relief.  No forgiveness.  It's a reward for irresponsibility.  

And get the government out of the college loan business.  Make the lender financially responsible for the outcome of that loan.  That will make them a lot more careful about whom they loan money to.

You and I don't usually agree on much, but I agree 100%.

I wonder how many people complaining about student loan debt have Samsung Galaxy S21 or Apple Iphone 12's and unlimited data plans.

I wonder how many of those same people have smart watches and an extra line for that watch

I wonder how many of them have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney+, <insert paid subscription here>

I wonder how many of them have satellite radio or Spotify

I wonder how many of them are making the necessary sacrifices in order to make good on their debt.

Bingo.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Here's one.  

Usually parents co-sign on student loans.  We can start the process by excluding any forgiveness in which 1 or 2 parents co-signed on the loan.  That would probably take out more than half of the student loan population.

We could then add other exclusions until there's only 3 or 4 people that qualify; hopefully 1 Caucasian person, 1 African American person, 1 Hispanic, and 1 Asian ... of the 4 we could also include 1 male, 1 female, one transgender, and one person that is gay or lesbian.  Then we can state we passed the Loan Forgiveness Policy and even did it with total equality.

That is the Parental Plus student loan... There are 4 types of student loans. Subsidized, Non Subsidized, Parental Plus, and Private...The Parental Plus is the only one that needs a parent to sign for as payments are sent directly to the parent. They are meant to supplement expenses not covered or in excess the other types of loans

"How Do Parent PLUS Loans Work?

When families fill out the FAFSA, one of the options offered for funding are Parent PLUS loans. These loans are meant to supplement school, state, and other federal financial aid offered. Filling out the FAFSA is the first step. A credit assessment is performed to determine any late payments and recent defaults." https://www.salliemae.com/blog/what-is-a...plus-loan/

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I wonder how many people complaining about student loan debt have Samsung Galaxy S21 or Apple Iphone 12's and unlimited data plans.

I wonder how many of those same people have smart watches and an extra line for that watch

I wonder how many of them have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney+, <insert paid subscription here>

I wonder how many of them have satellite radio or Spotify

I wonder how many of them are making the necessary sacrifices in order to make good on their debt.

So they shouldn't spend any money in order to finance a loan?

Well that's just great for the economy!

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