(08-06-2021, 10:48 AM)Tank Commander Wrote:

(08-05-2021, 10:19 PM)Bullseye Wrote: First, I never denied the West Coast Offense places an emphasis on shorter passes.  I never tried to hide or minimize that fact.  I expressly state it here.  Now what?

Secondly, the prevalence of the deep pass in the pre WCO erais only ONE reason why their completion percentages are low.  The rules pre-dating the 1978 rules changes had an adverse impact on the passing game, including completion percentage.  Not that Tebow has that to blame.

Furthermore, how did Peyton Manning become my "god?"  Just because I don't worship Tebow doesn't mean i worship Peyton Manning.  That said, to whatever extent you are an NFL fan who puts NFL players on pedestals, Peyton Manning is far more worthy of the adulation than Tebow.  You brought up his completion percentage, indicating that over his first 576 passes (i.e. very early in his career) his completion percentage was low.  Putting aside, for the moment, that Manning did not play in a WCO under Jim freaking Mora and Tony freaking Dungy (two of the most offensively conservative coaches of the modern era), his completion percentage, as low as it was for those 576 passes (taking your representation at face value) his completion percentage during that time was still nearly TEN points higher than Tebow's. 

I'm sorry, but what sort of hallucinogen are you on to think Tebow comes out ahead or even remotely favorable in any comparison to Peyton Manning-of ALL people?!?  You do this after grouping Tebow with Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw?!?  Seriously?!?

You have seriously argued that the demands of his read option system in Denver, and NOT his deficiencies in accuracy, are solely to blame for Tebow's low career completion percentage.  If this is true, why weren't teams running more conventional offenses that needed a good QB willing to bring him aboard to run their offenses?  You know how many teams have added QBs since Tebow last played the position?!?  Jacksonville alone added Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, Gardner Minshew and Trevor Lawrence just off the top of my head.  The tacks added Marcus Mariota and Tannehill, among others since Tebow became available.  Exclude teams with GOAT QBs like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Saints, Seahawks and Chargers.  Throw in Denver since they brought in an injured aging and declining Peyton Manning in to replace him.  That leaves some 25 other teams that have added QBs at one point or another, that don't run that read option, that opted NOT to bring in Tebow and give him a shot at starting QB.

To what do you attribute that?

Another troubling line of related inquiry is why McDaniels ran that offense in the first place.  He had his success in New England running an offense that is the antithesis of the read option.  Quarterback stands in the pocket and largely dinks and dunks all game long.  That's the approach that got McDaniels his shot at a head coaching gig.  He had success coaching a GOAT QB with that approach.  So why would he abandon that approach when he drafted Tebow?  He wanted to maximize Tebow's chances for success.  Tebow ran a lot of read option in college.  It was an offense tailor made for Tebow's skillset.  But even with that offense tailored to him, he produced mediocrity and non interest in his skillset around the rest of the league.  Mcdaniels was subsequently fired for it and has not been a head coach since.

Think about that for a minute.

Tebow could not produce at a competent level in an offense designed with him in mind.  The coach that gambled the biggest on him-McDaniels-crashed and burned.  Given this, why would any other coach-one NOT running that allegedly QB unfriendly system-bring Tebowin to start for them?

Why would any sane football fan, for that matter?

This actually just shows that with all the facts in your big brain super computer that something is off. Because McDaniels was fired in 2010 and Tebow didn't take over from Kyle Orton till 2011.  It was John Fox and Adam Gase in 2011 who put in the read option offense tailored to Tim Tebow's running ability, elite 6.66 3 Cone and Willis Magahee's superior running game.

Peyton Manning had a 56.7% completion percentage over his first 575 attempts along with 26 TDS and 28 INT (4.9 INT rate) with a 3-13 record.
Tim Tebow has 362 attempts in his entire career. 17 TD 9 INT (2.5 INT rate) with a 7-4 record in 2011 and a playoff victory and game winning passing TD over the AFC champions.
So as you can see had he never had the opportunity to develop or improve because he was blackballed and sabotaged by Elway and Butt Fumble. But he had the same stage of development as Peyton Manning in those first 572 pass attempts.

You ever read the bible, Bullseye?

Even accepting that at face value, how does that change the analysis at all to Tebow's benefit?

John Fox reached the Super Bowl with Carolina NOT running a read option offense.  He abandoned the conventional offense he ran to run a read option to accommodate Tebow.  Under that offense that was still crafted to his specific skill set, Tebow still produced lackluster at best numbers.  Fox saw the results and decided to dump Tebow.  The rest of the league saw the results and refused to give Tebow another shot at starting QB.

Peyton Manning was considered one of the best all time QB prospects when he was drafted.  He went to a bad team, but had the physical tools to succeed with patience.  Tebow was never considered a great QB prospect coming out the way Manning was-at least not by scouts and GMs interested in keeping their jobs.  Perhaps after two years of film, Elway decided he wasn't QB material and decided to move on.  Not to "blackball" him, but to improve the position.  Were the other 31 teams in on the blackball?  Are all QBs whose careers flamed out quickly deserving of years of development, or are teams not capable of determining after the fact that they missed on a prospect?  Johnny Manziel, Akili Smith, Josh Rosen, Cade McNown, among others, all got less than Peyton Manning's 576 attempts.  Were they all "blackballed and sabotaged?"  Did they deserve more opportunity to show their stuff?  What distinguishes Tebow from them (besides Tebow having a lower completion percentage then all of them except Akili Smith)?

Your response to me was the message board equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...wholly irrespective of whether I read the Bible.

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