/LOINS wave

Bro, put that away. We have kids around here.

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Jaguars are now the worst team this season cus they the only team with 0 wins

Lions don't have any wins

With injuries piling up, these are challenging times for both teams and the fan bases. This,  in addition to what has transpired previously to this season.   

Trying to look for positives, young players should emerge as part of a respective long term solutions ....as a result of opportunities they might not have received with most other teams.

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Jags are steadily improving... by mid-year the team will be very sound..... I am hoping for a win this weekend.

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Watching the Broncos play tough with the Ravens
Arizona destroying the Rams

Are we maybe this close to turning that corner. 

I guess we will see next week at Ten and the following Sunday in London. 

Go Jags

We're 0-4.  We can't be good right now.

We are playing better.

We are being competitive in games.  That represents some improvement from a certain perspective.

But as Bill Parcells used to say, you are what your record says you are.

Our record says we are winless...not good.

Exactly.  We're 0-4.  Good teams are talking about wins.  Good teams are not talking about being competitive in losses.

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Good at what?

Stealing 3 hours of people’s time.  They’re great “time bandits”

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We're 0-4.  We can't be good right now.

We are playing better.

We are being competitive in games.  That represents some improvement from a certain perspective.

But as Bill Parcells used to say, you are what your record says you are.

Our record says we are winless...not good.

Exactly this. We're getting better but were still 0-4

I also think theres a bit of 'you play to your opponents level', no team plays 100% every game, you do enough to beat who you are playing, sometimes that requires everyone to be playing great and sometimes you just need to not mess up and make enough plays.

TLaw is getting better.  Everything else is as it was last year.  The team is essentially a push except for TLaw.  The next big improvement needed here is defense.  1. It must play better as a unit, 2. It needs talent.  After that TLaw needs WRs and a TE.

But basically, this year we get to watch TLaw go from green, mistake-making rookie and worse than Minshew to better than Minshew.  The first two games the team was clearly worse than it was last year.  These last two show that maybe it's starting to draw level with last year?  We'll see.  And maybe in the second half of the year when TLaw is consistently making better choices and plays than a more experienced (and less talented) Minshew, we'll see the Jags clearly better than last year.  Maybe even win some.

This is a multi-year journey to getting talent into Jacksonville.  As far as I can tell, the Jags still have $72m of cap space for next season and only $16m in dead money.  So if TLaw improves as we hope then he is the biggest recruiting tool we have.  And a lot of money to spend on players willing to come join the TLaw team.  The Jag's future over the next few years is entirely dependent on TLaw's development as an NFL superstar QB.

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The Jags are good as:

A wet smelly sock

Moldy Cheese or bread after you have taken a bite

Someone stealing your wallet

Having to use the bathroom really bad but the toilet is already clogged

Fast food restaurant pay

You get the point?

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I think our team with experience can be competitive with most teams. Cardinals/Broncos/Bengals are good teams this year.. Texans also may have been if Tyrod didn't go down.

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We've been outscored 61-19 in the 2nd half of the past 3 games. We Are Not Good

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Good? Good? GOOD??!
Bwahahaha



No

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Exactly this. We're getting better but were still 0-4

I also think theres a bit of 'you play to your opponents level', no team plays 100% every game, you do enough to beat who you are playing, sometimes that requires everyone to be playing great and sometimes you just need to not mess up and make enough plays.

TLaw is getting better.  Everything else is as it was last year.  The team is essentially a push except for TLaw.  The next big improvement needed here is defense.  1. It must play better as a unit, 2. It needs talent.  After that TLaw needs WRs and a TE.

But basically, this year we get to watch TLaw go from green, mistake-making rookie and worse than Minshew to better than Minshew.  The first two games the team was clearly worse than it was last year.  These last two show that maybe it's starting to draw level with last year?  We'll see.  And maybe in the second half of the year when TLaw is consistently making better choices and plays than a more experienced (and less talented) Minshew, we'll see the Jags clearly better than last year.  Maybe even win some.

This is a multi-year journey to getting talent into Jacksonville.  As far as I can tell, the Jags still have $72m of cap space for next season and only $16m in dead money.  So if TLaw improves as we hope then he is the biggest recruiting tool we have.  And a lot of money to spend on players willing to come join the TLaw team.  The Jag's future over the next few years is entirely dependent on TLaw's development as an NFL superstar QB.

The troubling aspect to me-aside from the 20 consecutive loss thing and the mounting injuries-is how little quality contribution we are getting from the rookies.

Doing the rookie watch analysis every week this year has been sad, quite frankly.

We had extra draft picks this year thanks to the Ramsey, Ngakoue, Campbell and Bouye trades. We had an extra pick in the first, second, 4th and 5th round.

T Law has had his rookie struggles, but I'm happy with how he has played thus far, all things considered.  He shows some signs he could be great with time, health and better surrounding talent and coaching.

Everyone else?  Pfft.

Etienne was injured for the year in preseason.

Tyson Campbell has been mostly bad when he's been in, and he's been banged up too.

Walker Little has been inactive most of the year and I don't think he's gotten any regular season snaps.  Granted, the O-Line has been playing better than expected so far.  Nevertheless, it's disappointing he hasn't played well enough or developed enough yet to merit playing time...or at least even being active.

We all anticipated Andre Cisco would at least be a contributor, but he hasn't cracked the starting lineup, either.

Jay Tufele was just made active this past week.  Jordan Smith has been a complete non factor. 

Luke Farrell has made modest impact for a 5th rounder, but certainly hasn't been much of a difference maker.

All of this "non impact" for an 0-5 team.

What's worse is the bulk of these guys aren't even getting game reps to gain experience for next year.

Based solely on the contributions-or lack thereof-from this rookie class, we seemingly have a young nucleus of one to count on for improvement next year.

I cringe typing this.

---

The Jags are good as:

A wet smelly  sock

Moldy  Cheese or bread after you have taken a bite

Someone stealing your wallet

Having to use the bathroom really bad but the toilet is already clogged

Fast food restaurant pay

You get the point?

As outlandish and unpleasant as these analogies are, nobody can really disagree with them.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

TLaw is getting better.  Everything else is as it was last year.  The team is essentially a push except for TLaw.  The next big improvement needed here is defense.  1. It must play better as a unit, 2. It needs talent.  After that TLaw needs WRs and a TE.

But basically, this year we get to watch TLaw go from green, mistake-making rookie and worse than Minshew to better than Minshew.  The first two games the team was clearly worse than it was last year.  These last two show that maybe it's starting to draw level with last year?  We'll see.  And maybe in the second half of the year when TLaw is consistently making better choices and plays than a more experienced (and less talented) Minshew, we'll see the Jags clearly better than last year.  Maybe even win some.

This is a multi-year journey to getting talent into Jacksonville.  As far as I can tell, the Jags still have $72m of cap space for next season and only $16m in dead money.  So if TLaw improves as we hope then he is the biggest recruiting tool we have.  And a lot of money to spend on players willing to come join the TLaw team.  The Jag's future over the next few years is entirely dependent on TLaw's development as an NFL superstar QB.

The troubling aspect to me-aside from the 20 consecutive loss thing and the mounting injuries-is how little quality contribution we are getting from the rookies.

Doing the rookie watch analysis every week this year has been sad, quite frankly.

We had extra draft picks this year thanks to the Ramsey, Ngakoue, Campbell and Bouye trades. We had an extra pick in the first, second, 4th and 5th round.

T Law has had his rookie struggles, but I'm happy with how he has played thus far, all things considered.  He shows some signs he could be great with time, health and better surrounding talent and coaching.

Everyone else?  Pfft.

Etienne was injured for the year in preseason.

Tyson Campbell has been mostly bad when he's been in, and he's been banged up too.

Walker Little has been inactive most of the year and I don't think he's gotten any regular season snaps.  Granted, the O-Line has been playing better than expected so far.  Nevertheless, it's disappointing he hasn't played well enough or developed enough yet to merit playing time...or at least even being active.

We all anticipated Andre Cisco would at least be a contributor, but he hasn't cracked the starting lineup, either.

Jay Tufele was just made active this past week.  Jordan Smith has been a complete non factor. 

Luke Farrell has made modest impact for a 5th rounder, but certainly hasn't been much of a difference maker.

All of this "non impact" for an 0-5 team.

What's worse is the bulk of these guys aren't even getting game reps to gain experience for next year.

Based solely on the contributions-or lack thereof-from this rookie class, we seemingly have a young nucleus of one to count on for improvement next year.

I cringe typing this.

---

The Jags are good as:

A wet smelly  sock

Moldy  Cheese or bread after you have taken a bite

Someone stealing your wallet

Having to use the bathroom really bad but the toilet is already clogged

Fast food restaurant pay

You get the point?

As outlandish and unpleasant as these analogies are, nobody can really disagree with them.

I keep saying it, but it never stops applying: this is what needs based drafting does. The team would have been better just letting an algorithm make their draft selections over the years, just always selecting whatever guy was ranked highest in an aggregate of rankings.

---

Bullseye I sadly agree. They blew this draft outside of the obvious pick. That is an awful trend and we know a thing or two about bad drafting, because we have endured too many.

Frankly we are squandering multiple rebuilds by blowing talent evaluation, retention and acquisition.

---

The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

The troubling aspect to me-aside from the 20 consecutive loss thing and the mounting injuries-is how little quality contribution we are getting from the rookies.

Doing the rookie watch analysis every week this year has been sad, quite frankly.

We had extra draft picks this year thanks to the Ramsey, Ngakoue, Campbell and Bouye trades. We had an extra pick in the first, second, 4th and 5th round.

T Law has had his rookie struggles, but I'm happy with how he has played thus far, all things considered.  He shows some signs he could be great with time, health and better surrounding talent and coaching.

Everyone else?  Pfft.

Etienne was injured for the year in preseason.

Tyson Campbell has been mostly bad when he's been in, and he's been banged up too.

Walker Little has been inactive most of the year and I don't think he's gotten any regular season snaps.  Granted, the O-Line has been playing better than expected so far.  Nevertheless, it's disappointing he hasn't played well enough or developed enough yet to merit playing time...or at least even being active.

We all anticipated Andre Cisco would at least be a contributor, but he hasn't cracked the starting lineup, either.

Jay Tufele was just made active this past week.  Jordan Smith has been a complete non factor. 

Luke Farrell has made modest impact for a 5th rounder, but certainly hasn't been much of a difference maker.

All of this "non impact" for an 0-5 team.

What's worse is the bulk of these guys aren't even getting game reps to gain experience for next year.

Based solely on the contributions-or lack thereof-from this rookie class, we seemingly have a young nucleus of one to count on for improvement next year.

I cringe typing this.

---

As outlandish and unpleasant as these analogies are, nobody can really disagree with them.

I keep saying it, but it never stops applying: this is what needs based drafting does. The team would have been better just letting an algorithm make their draft selections over the years, just always selecting whatever guy was ranked highest in an aggregate of rankings.

I agree that if you are judging by immediate impact, this was bad drafting, but I'm not sure this was needs based drafting.  Granted, we had needs all over the roster so in theory if every pick were a BAP pick it would fit a need.  But clearly there were some needs bigger than others, and the draft did not strictly reflect that.  The most obvious example was Etienne at 25 when we had Robinson already on the roster.  We followed that up with Tyson Campbell, when CB was not necessarily a HUGE need when we had Henderson and signed Griffin.  Of course, reasonable people can disagree about Herndon and Sidney Jones, but if your 3rd and 4th CBs are dictating your top of the second round pick, need couldn't have been too much of a factor unless the plan at draft day was to rid ourselves of Henderson.  T and TE were bigger needs than either CB or RB, but we picked a T after that and drafted no TE despite one being on the board in the middle of the 2nd round when we picked Little.  After free agency, I would not have characterized S as a particularly huge need, yet we picked Cisco at the top of the 3rd.

I am trying not to hit the panic button.  After all these are rookies.  But they were drafted early with an abundance of early draft capital, and only Lawrence has made any discernible impact on a winless team.  That terrifies me.

---

Bullseye I sadly agree. They blew this draft outside of the obvious pick. That is an awful trend and we know a thing or two about bad drafting, because we have endured too many.

Frankly we are squandering multiple rebuilds by blowing talent evaluation, retention and acquisition.

What's even more chilling is pondering the question of what if the Jaguars and Meyer part ways between now and the end of the year.

If they go outside of the organization to replace him (which they should), how does that impact the development of these rookies? 

Does it set them back?

Are they jettisoned as non scheme fits?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Man those are some depressing pondering on the whatifs. I don't know how you build team when your off-season didn't really shore up your roster.

At the franchise start, TC had a plan to win the division and build foundational philosophies and mistakes were made but the vision was executed. Under Shad ownership, what is the vision and where is the plan.

The hires don't make sense and the front office was punching the clock with no consequences. I was Luke warm on Urban because the messaging was wrong. We need football people.

---

The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

I keep saying it, but it never stops applying: this is what needs based drafting does. The team would have been better just letting an algorithm make their draft selections over the years, just always selecting whatever guy was ranked highest in an aggregate of rankings.

I agree that if you are judging by immediate impact, this was bad drafting, but I'm not sure this was needs based drafting.  Granted, we had needs all over the roster so in theory if every pick were a BAP pick it would fit a need.  But clearly there were some needs bigger than others, and the draft did not strictly reflect that.  The most obvious example was Etienne at 25 when we had Robinson already on the roster.  We followed that up with Tyson Campbell, when CB was not necessarily a HUGE need when we had Henderson and signed Griffin.  Of course, reasonable people can disagree about Herndon and Sidney Jones, but if your 3rd and 4th CBs are dictating your top of the second round pick, need couldn't have been too much of a factor unless the plan at draft day was to rid ourselves of Henderson.  T and TE were bigger needs than either CB or RB, but we picked a T after that and drafted no TE despite one being on the board in the middle of the 2nd round when we picked Little.  After free agency, I would not have characterized S as a particularly huge need, yet we picked Cisco at the top of the 3rd.

I am trying not to hit the panic button.  After all these are rookies.  But they were drafted early with an abundance of early draft capital, and only Lawrence has made any discernible impact on a winless team.  That terrifies me.

---

Bullseye I sadly agree. They blew this draft outside of the obvious pick. That is an awful trend and we know a thing or two about bad drafting, because we have endured too many.

Frankly we are squandering multiple rebuilds by blowing talent evaluation, retention and acquisition.

What's even more chilling is pondering the question of what if the Jaguars and Meyer part ways between now and the end of the year.

If they go outside of the organization to replace him (which they should), how does that impact the development of these rookies? 

Does it set them back?

Are they jettisoned as non scheme fits?

The Etienne pick was the one that made it clear Meyer doesn't have a clue and is a need guy. He wasn't drafting the player, he was drafting the role.

---

yeah we totally missed on CB. Again, this board would have preferred Asante Samuel Jr., yet somehow our GM (whose job it is to get this right) picks a combine warrior who has major deficiencies in technique. Etiene is hard to judge based on the injury, but it would be really nice to have a stud linebacker right now.

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Man those are some depressing pondering on the whatifs. I don't know how you build  team when your off-season didn't really shore up your roster.

At the franchise start, TC had a plan to win the division and build foundational philosophies and mistakes were made but the vision was executed. Under Shad ownership, what is the vision and where is the plan.

The hires don't make sense and the front office was punching the clock with no consequences. I was Luke warm on Urban because the messaging was wrong. We need football people.

The troubling what ifs don't stop with the previous posts.

Considering all of the missteps Meyer has made since he's been here, how will the rookies develop (or not) if Meyer and the coaching staff remains intact?

Are they talented enough to actually be developed into quality starters?  Baalke doesn't necessarily have the most impeccable drafting resume.  Two critiques I've heard about him are that he takes a lot of chances on guys with torn acls and that he drafts on the triangle numbers (ht-wt-speed) instead of football ability (i.e. potential over production) have thus far proven to have some merit with the Tyson Campbell (Potential over production) and and Andre cisco (ACL) picks.

Can the current coaching staff, which somehow didn't know that Jack plays better when he doesn't have the responsibility of calling the defense and somehow doesn't have a clear indication whether Trevor Lawrence is comfortable running a QB sneak, develop these guys if they DO have the talent to be quality NFL players?

If the current coaching staff remains, can they get the most out of the talent even if they CAN develop them into quality NFL players?  The fiasco with TL and Jack, the odd substitutions at RB, the ineptitude inside the 5, and the seemingly complete lack of quality second half adjustments makes me wonder.

With Trevor Lawrence, this should be an exciting time to be a Jaguars fan.

But right now, I have as much apprehension for the future as I have had at any point in team history, and that includes when I lost it with Bradley.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I agree that if you are judging by immediate impact, this was bad drafting, but I'm not sure this was needs based drafting.  Granted, we had needs all over the roster so in theory if every pick were a BAP pick it would fit a need.  But clearly there were some needs bigger than others, and the draft did not strictly reflect that.  The most obvious example was Etienne at 25 when we had Robinson already on the roster.  We followed that up with Tyson Campbell, when CB was not necessarily a HUGE need when we had Henderson and signed Griffin.  Of course, reasonable people can disagree about Herndon and Sidney Jones, but if your 3rd and 4th CBs are dictating your top of the second round pick, need couldn't have been too much of a factor unless the plan at draft day was to rid ourselves of Henderson.  T and TE were bigger needs than either CB or RB, but we picked a T after that and drafted no TE despite one being on the board in the middle of the 2nd round when we picked Little.  After free agency, I would not have characterized S as a particularly huge need, yet we picked Cisco at the top of the 3rd.

I am trying not to hit the panic button.  After all these are rookies.  But they were drafted early with an abundance of early draft capital, and only Lawrence has made any discernible impact on a winless team.  That terrifies me.

---

What's even more chilling is pondering the question of what if the Jaguars and Meyer part ways between now and the end of the year.

If they go outside of the organization to replace him (which they should), how does that impact the development of these rookies? 

Does it set them back?

Are they jettisoned as non scheme fits?

The Etienne pick was the one that made it clear Meyer doesn't have a clue and is a need guy. He wasn't drafting the player, he was drafting the role.

(Emphasis added)

But every player drafted fills a role-or at least is supposed to, assuming he makes the team.  There are no position less players, despite the contrived trend among pundits is to try to make a player or two just that (see Isaiah Simmons).

But that doesn't necessarily make the player a need pick in the traditional sense.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The Etienne pick was the one that made it clear Meyer doesn't have a clue and is a need guy. He wasn't drafting the player, he was drafting the role.

(Emphasis added)

But every player drafted fills a role-or at least is supposed to, assuming he makes the team.  There are no position less players, despite the contrived trend among pundits is to try to make a player or two just that (see Isaiah Simmons).

But that doesn't necessarily make the player a need pick in the traditional sense.

Every player should have an NFL role, otherwise there's no point in drafting them, that's an obvious tautology. When Meyer said he wanted Tooney but settled for Etienne he was actually saying he was taking someone to fill the Harvey role there regardless of ability, even if the guy was a running back with a lot of mileage and not a guy primarily known for his receiving ability.

When a team drafts players based on demonstrated ability, which is combination of college production correlating to NFL production (so taking a quarterback with a fullback's skillet, like Tebow, wouldn't apply) along with positional value and measurable athletic ability, rather than a fantasy about them filling out the roster in a perfect way to make some idiot's scheme work, then that's bap. The Jaguars have a bad tendency to ignore ability and start going into fantasy when they make their picks. Either that or they have no ability to observe demonstrated ability or assess positional value.

If they really just are terrible at evaluating talent then that's even worse than being a needs drafter, and there's no need to defend them.

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