It's dead and for good reason.

What would happen to a company like Amazon or Tesla?  Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk would probably stop investing their own money and stop innovating.  Think about what happens to the millions of people those two alone employ, and not just Amazon and Tesla, look at Space X and Blue Origin.  All of that would fold pretty rapidly.

The problem with the modern democrat party is that they want to tax the "millionaires and billionaires" because of jealousy.  It has nothing to do with revenue for the government, they want to penalize success and re-distribute it to failure.

The democrat party has turned to socialism/communism which is based in jealousy and greed.  Some people welcome the "tax the rich" rhetoric for those two reasons.  Some (ignorant) people think that wealth is better handled by government rather than those that created and earned it.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Only a fool would call taxation theft.

Taxation is theft. How else would you describe it?

Back to your topic, the purpose of the RMD is to force taxation even when the distribution may not be required. That is theft.

Taxation is essential to the authority of government and it is also the basis of paper currency.
If you pay no taxes, no one governs you.
If you owe no taxes in dollars, you don't care if your customers and vendors want to switch to euros or bitcoins. 
Taxes have been around for thousands of years and will continue to be the basis of government and society for thousands more.  It is not theft.  It is social glue.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Taxation is a necessary evil to fortify the also neccessary evil of government. It must be guarded against as surely as the fox is kept from the henhouse.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Taxation is theft. How else would you describe it?

Back to your topic, the purpose of the RMD is to force taxation even when the distribution may not be required. That is theft.

Taxation is essential to the authority of government and it is also the basis of paper currency.
If you pay no taxes, no one governs you.
If you owe no taxes in dollars, you don't care if your customers and vendors want to switch to euros or bitcoins. 
Taxes have been around for thousands of years and will continue to be the basis of government and society for thousands more.  It is not theft.  It is social glue.

Is there a limit to taxation where it changes from social glue to theft in your eyes?

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Taxation is essential to the authority of government and it is also the basis of paper currency.
If you pay no taxes, no one governs you.
If you owe no taxes in dollars, you don't care if your customers and vendors want to switch to euros or bitcoins. 
Taxes have been around for thousands of years and will continue to be the basis of government and society for thousands more.  It is not theft.  It is social glue.

Is there a limit to taxation where it changes from social glue to theft in your eyes?

Absolutely. Taking the last milking goat or the last laying hen from a family on the verge of starvation is theft. Taking beyond what was authorized by a general law is theft. Taking more because you belong to a certain ethnic group is theft. Taking at a marginal rate greater than one is theft. So in theory there are many ways that taxation can become theft, but all of these are way beyond the realm of possibility for the American tax system.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It's dead and for good reason.

What would happen to a company like Amazon or Tesla?  Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk would probably stop investing their own money and stop innovating.  Think about what happens to the millions of people those two alone employ, and not just Amazon and Tesla, look at Space X and Blue Origin.  All of that would fold pretty rapidly.

The problem with the modern democrat party is that they want to tax the "millionaires and billionaires" because of jealousy.  It has nothing to do with revenue for the government, they want to penalize success and re-distribute it to failure.

The democrat party has turned to socialism/communism which is based in jealousy and greed.  Some people welcome the "tax the rich" rhetoric for those two reasons.  Some (ignorant) people think that wealth is better handled by government rather than those that created and earned it.

The millionaires and billionaires that propose this type of legislation have built in exemptions that every billionaire and millionaire will also exploit which leaves the ever shrinking middle class to foot the bill.  Sadly the soak the rich crowd cannot see this.  This type of proposal will resurface and eventually will get passed unless the masses wake up.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

The problem is liquidity.  

Let's say Jeff Bezos has a good year and Tesla stock is up 20%.  Jeff Bezos ends up with a tax bill of $10B.  Well, he doesn't have that in cash so he has to sell $10B worth of Tesla stock, which drives the price down and negatively impacts everyone that owns stock in Tesla - including index funds, 401K investments, etc.  

Investors will stop investing in the U.S. and put their money elsewhere, destroying innovation and the economy with it.  

The problem isn't that the government isn't collecting enough tax revenue, it's that spending is out of control.  There should be less government, not more.

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The problem is liquidity.  

Let's say Jeff Bezos has a good year and Tesla stock is up 20%.  Jeff Bezos ends up with a tax bill of $10B.  Well, he doesn't have that in cash so he has to sell $10B worth of Tesla stock, which drives the price down and negatively impacts everyone that owns stock in Tesla - including index funds, 401K investments, etc.  

Investors will stop investing in the U.S. and put their money elsewhere, destroying innovation and the economy with it.  

The problem isn't that the government isn't collecting enough tax revenue, it's that spending is out of control.  There should be less government, not more.

Here's the thing.  The average daily trading volume of Tesla is 20M per day, which equates to $20B in stock value.  That's average.  Yesterday, volume was 38M which translates to $38B in value of stock bought and sold.  The stock went up 2%

So is Bezos sells $10B of Tesla stock, it would hardly be noticed.  He could also sell Amazon stock.

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It's one of the dumbest ideas in the history of dumb ideas.  Finance a huge expansion of the welfare state by confiscating the wealth of the richest Americans. 

"Hey, we don't like rich people.  They have all the money.  Let's take some of it and spend it on ourselves." 

That's all it is.  Just jealousy, greed, and wanting the government to pay for everyone to have an easier life where we don't have to work if we don't want to.

This idea is being pushed by people who don't understand how an economy works, how jobs are created, and how the wealth that we all share is created.

And the thing is, the whole plan is built on sand.  Suppose we tax the richest people based on the gains in their stock portfolios.  What if the market has a correction, say, 25%?  Do they now have a tax loss carryforward that would last for years and years while the market recovers?  Meanwhile, we would be spending trillions of additional dollars on social programs and it would then not be paid for because the billionaire tax would have failed due to the stock market correction.  And what about the trillions they propose to raise with this tax?  If the stock market has a correction, does the government now have to refund all the tax they collected?  We'd not only be paying out trillions in the new welfare state expansion, we'd also be paying out trillions additionally, right back to the billionaires who paid it in the first place.  

If you look back at the history of the United States, there are people who built this country, like Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, John D. Rockefeller, and more recently, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos.  And yes, they got rich doing it.  I don't mind that one bit.  They deserve it.  So much of what we have today is because of them.   Look around you at all the things you have because some guy invested a bunch of money, took a huge risk, and created a million jobs.  So what if he got rich doing it?  You benefitted, too.  You have an automobile, a personal computer, a cell phone.  Not to mention, millions of people have jobs.  

Yes, we can take their money, hand it out to everyone, and have a nice easy life for a little while.  And when the money runs out, we'll all be equal.  Equally poor.

---

Big meanie orange man is gone. That’s all that matters.

---

It's one of the dumbest ideas in the history of dumb ideas.  Finance a huge expansion of the welfare state by confiscating the wealth of the richest Americans. 

"Hey, we don't like rich people.  They have all the money.  Let's take some of it and spend it on ourselves." 

That's all it is.  Just jealousy, greed, and wanting the government to pay for everyone to have an easier life where we don't have to work if we don't want to.

This idea is being pushed by people who don't understand how an economy works, how jobs are created, and how the wealth that we all share is created.

And the thing is, the whole plan is built on sand.  Suppose we tax the richest people based on the gains in their stock portfolios.  What if the market has a correction, say, 25%?  Do they now have a tax loss carryforward that would last for years and years while the market recovers?  Meanwhile, we would be spending trillions of additional dollars on social programs and it would then not be paid for because the billionaire tax would have failed due to the stock market correction.  And what about the trillions they propose to raise with this tax?  If the stock market has a correction, does the government now have to refund all the tax they collected?  We'd not only be paying out trillions in the new welfare state expansion, we'd also be paying out trillions additionally, right back to the billionaires who paid it in the first place.  

If you look back at the history of the United States, there are people who built this country, like Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, John D. Rockefeller, and more recently, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos.  And yes, they got rich doing it.  I don't mind that one bit.  They deserve it.  So much of what we have today is because of them.   Look around you at all the things you have because some guy invested a bunch of money, took a huge risk, and created a million jobs.  So what if he got rich doing it?  You benefitted, too.  You have an automobile, a personal computer, a cell phone.  Not to mention, millions of people have jobs.  

Yes, we can take their money, hand it out to everyone, and have a nice easy life for a little while.  And when the money runs out, we'll all be equal.  Equally poor.

I am not defending this idea, in particular, but it's become very clear to me that we have to do something about the ultra rich. The wealth disparity is a real problem. You can see it's effects on our Republic.

---

It's one of the dumbest ideas in the history of dumb ideas.  Finance a huge expansion of the welfare state by confiscating the wealth of the richest Americans. 

"Hey, we don't like rich people.  They have all the money.  Let's take some of it and spend it on ourselves." 

That's all it is.  Just jealousy, greed, and wanting the government to pay for everyone to have an easier life where we don't have to work if we don't want to.

This idea is being pushed by people who don't understand how an economy works, how jobs are created, and how the wealth that we all share is created.

And the thing is, the whole plan is built on sand.  Suppose we tax the richest people based on the gains in their stock portfolios.  What if the market has a correction, say, 25%?  Do they now have a tax loss carryforward that would last for years and years while the market recovers?  Meanwhile, we would be spending trillions of additional dollars on social programs and it would then not be paid for because the billionaire tax would have failed due to the stock market correction.  And what about the trillions they propose to raise with this tax?  If the stock market has a correction, does the government now have to refund all the tax they collected?  We'd not only be paying out trillions in the new welfare state expansion, we'd also be paying out trillions additionally, right back to the billionaires who paid it in the first place.  

If you look back at the history of the United States, there are people who built this country, like Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, John D. Rockefeller, and more recently, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos.  And yes, they got rich doing it.  I don't mind that one bit.  They deserve it.  So much of what we have today is because of them.   Look around you at all the things you have because some guy invested a bunch of money, took a huge risk, and created a million jobs.  So what if he got rich doing it?  You benefitted, too.  You have an automobile, a personal computer, a cell phone.  Not to mention, millions of people have jobs.  

Yes, we can take their money, hand it out to everyone, and have a nice easy life for a little while.  And when the money runs out, we'll all be equal.  Equally poor.

I am not defending this idea, in particular, but it's become very clear to me that we have to do something about the ultra rich. The wealth disparity is a real problem. You can see it's effects on our Republic.

How about we start with their corporations paying tax, then go from there...

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I am not defending this idea, in particular, but it's become very clear to me that we have to do something about the ultra rich. The wealth disparity is a real problem. You can see it's effects on our Republic.

How about we start with their corporations paying tax, then go from there...

That's exactly what Obama was trying to do in his second term.  Both parties had bought and paid for members that wouldn't let it happen. Maybe that's changed and BBB will close some corporate loopholes.  Maybe not.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I am not defending this idea, in particular, but it's become very clear to me that we have to do something about the ultra rich. The wealth disparity is a real problem. You can see it's effects on our Republic.

How about we start with their corporations paying tax, then go from there...

Terrific idea, the spike in prices will exacerbate our current inflation problem and we can start printing 50 million dollar bills to use for grocery shopping.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

How about we start with their corporations paying tax, then go from there...

Terrific idea, the spike in prices will exacerbate our current inflation problem and we can start printing 50 million dollar bills to use for grocery shopping.

This is already happening anyway.

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Terrific idea, the spike in prices will exacerbate our current inflation problem and we can start printing 50 million dollar bills to use for grocery shopping.

This is already happening anyway.

Yeah, I just returned from Publix and spent $85 for almost nothing. Fruit, vegetables and peanut butter are noticably up. Looks like I'll have to start shopping at Save-a-Lot.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

How about we start with their corporations paying tax, then go from there...

Terrific idea, the spike in prices will exacerbate our current inflation problem and we can start printing 50 million dollar bills to use for grocery shopping.

Juat so I am clear, you don't want to force corporations to pay their fair share in taxes at the risk of additional inflation, but are perfectly fine with people being forced into a medical treatment by those very same companies they don't want in order to maintain their livelihoods?

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Terrific idea, the spike in prices will exacerbate our current inflation problem and we can start printing 50 million dollar bills to use for grocery shopping.

Juat so I am clear, you don't want to force corporations to pay their fair share in taxes at the risk of additional inflation, but are perfectly fine with people being forced into a medical treatment by those very same companies they don't want in order to maintain their livelihoods?

The cost of corporate taxes is paid by the consumer, corporations are just tax collectors who pass is through to the king. If their taxes go up so will the cost of everything they sell, hence the exacerbation of our inflation. And just so you're clear, there's no relationship between the two positions you proffered. People are free to take the shot or not, they are not free to tell their employer that they will not abide by company policy.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Juat so I am clear, you don't want to force corporations to pay their fair share in taxes at the risk of additional inflation, but are perfectly fine with people being forced into a medical treatment by those very same companies they don't want in order to maintain their livelihoods?

The cost of corporate taxes is paid by the consumer, shareholder, corporations are just tax collectors who pass is through to the king. If their taxes go up so will the cost of everything they sell, dividends and reinvestment will be reduced hence the exacerbation of our inflation reduction in stock prices. 

Prices are set by markets. Corporate taxes are taken on profits, not revenue.  It wouldn't be like a sales tax.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It's one of the dumbest ideas in the history of dumb ideas.  Finance a huge expansion of the welfare state by confiscating the wealth of the richest Americans. 

"Hey, we don't like rich people.  They have all the money.  Let's take some of it and spend it on ourselves." 

That's all it is.  Just jealousy, greed, and wanting the government to pay for everyone to have an easier life where we don't have to work if we don't want to.

This idea is being pushed by people who don't understand how an economy works, how jobs are created, and how the wealth that we all share is created.

And the thing is, the whole plan is built on sand.  Suppose we tax the richest people based on the gains in their stock portfolios.  What if the market has a correction, say, 25%?  Do they now have a tax loss carryforward that would last for years and years while the market recovers?  Meanwhile, we would be spending trillions of additional dollars on social programs and it would then not be paid for because the billionaire tax would have failed due to the stock market correction.  And what about the trillions they propose to raise with this tax?  If the stock market has a correction, does the government now have to refund all the tax they collected?  We'd not only be paying out trillions in the new welfare state expansion, we'd also be paying out trillions additionally, right back to the billionaires who paid it in the first place.  

If you look back at the history of the United States, there are people who built this country, like Andrew Carnegie, Henry Ford, John D. Rockefeller, and more recently, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos.  And yes, they got rich doing it.  I don't mind that one bit.  They deserve it.  So much of what we have today is because of them.   Look around you at all the things you have because some guy invested a bunch of money, took a huge risk, and created a million jobs.  So what if he got rich doing it?  You benefitted, too.  You have an automobile, a personal computer, a cell phone.  Not to mention, millions of people have jobs.  

Yes, we can take their money, hand it out to everyone, and have a nice easy life for a little while.  And when the money runs out, we'll all be equal.  Equally poor.

I don't always agree with you, but on this topic I do.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.