I disagree, so you've seen enough of Pickens to take him at 33?  There have been a bunch great WRs come from smaller schools so im not to worried about that like I would be at other positions.  Pickens would be the riskier pick imo with his injury history and maturity concerns.  I think Watson is WR 2 for me behind London at this point

Very, very, very hard pass on Pickens.

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Jameson is still WR1.

I recently saw a video of his rehab and he's already pushing around a weighted sled. It makes me believe he has a chance to be ready by the start of the season.

If Dotson goes on opening night I would be looking at him at 33. His speed and natural ability are worth it if he's rehabing well.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Very, very, very hard pass on Pickens.

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I recently saw a video of his rehab and he's already pushing around a weighted sled. It makes me believe he has a chance to be ready by the start of the season.

If Dotson goes on opening night I would be looking at him at 33. His speed and natural ability are worth it if he's rehabing well.

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If Tre McBride is on the board and Dotson is gone at #33, I'm probably taking McBride or possibly an OG/C depending on how the board falls. I then look to fill WR and ILB in the 3rd and Center in round 4. One way or another, I would get a premier veteran WR as well, whether it be by free agency or most likely a trade. I also look to trade Myles Jack for a 4th or 5th round pick.

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I am against trading Jack. To me he is still a talented player. I think we need to get out of the forever rebuilding mentality. No need to trade him this year.

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I am against trading Jack. To me he is still a talented player. I think we need to get out of the forever rebuilding mentality. No need to trade him this year.

You don't get it. He does not fit into a 3-4 scheme. He is a 4-3 OLB. We now have a 3-4 base defense. That is not gonna change anytime soon. We can't get better as a team if we keep players that don't fit the scheme. It's not good for us and it's not good for Myles Jack. He needs to go to a 4-3 team where he can play the position he fares the best at. Jack is only talented when he is playing the position that best suits him and that does not exist in a 3-4 scheme.

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I am against trading Jack. To me he is still a talented player. I think we need to get out of the forever rebuilding mentality. No need to trade him this year.

You don't get it. He does not fit into a 3-4 scheme. He is a 4-3 OLB. We now have a 3-4 base defense. That is not gonna change anytime soon. We can't get better as a team if we keep players that don't fit the scheme. It's not good for us and it's not good for Myles Jack. He needs to go to a 4-3 team where he can play the position he fares the best at. Jack is only talented when he is playing the position that best suits him and that does not exist in a 3-4 scheme.

You don't get it. We are are talking about football players. There's no need to take these rediculous hard lines like Miles Jack has no place on the team. Get over yourself bro

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You don't get it. He does not fit into a 3-4 scheme. He is a 4-3 OLB. We now have a 3-4 base defense. That is not gonna change anytime soon. We can't get better as a team if we keep players that don't fit the scheme. It's not good for us and it's not good for Myles Jack. He needs to go to a 4-3 team where he can play the position he fares the best at. Jack is only talented when he is playing the position that best suits him and that does not exist in a 3-4 scheme.

You don't get it. We are are talking about football players. There's no need to take these rediculous hard lines like Miles Jack has no place on the team. Get over yourself bro

I don't get what makes his take so ridiculous.

Let's review Jack's tenure here.

His rookie year, he played Sam because Telvin Smith had will and Poz was Mike.  Jack barely saw the field, and when he played he had minimal impact.

Then we tried him at Mike after Poz left, with the idea his speed and athleticism would be an asset inside.  The problem is he couldn't handle calling the defensive signals.

They finally moved him to will and he had his best season.

Then came the switch to  the 3-4, where UM ignored all of the previous year's progress, moved him inside and had him call the defensive signals again.  That lasted about 1/3 -3/4 of the season.  During that time, some of the same issues that were a problem when he was at Sam (not protected b the scheme) rose up and he had to take on bigger guards in the run game.

In a 3-4, the OLBs are typically taller, lengthier pass rusher types.  Some would even go as far as to call them hybrid DEs.  Jack doesn't fit that paradigm.

Jack is an athletic player to be sure. That negated play in the AFC Championship, his return against the Jets, and his INT against the Steelers in the playoffs exemplify his athleticism.  But I'm not sure it's a stretch to say he's not a good scheme fit in a 3-4 based upon his stay here and his physical attributes.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

You don't get it. We are are talking about football players. There's no need to take these rediculous hard lines like Miles Jack has no place on the team. Get over yourself bro

I don't get what makes his take so ridiculous.

Let's review Jack's tenure here.

His rookie year, he played Sam because Telvin Smith had will and Poz was Mike.  Jack barely saw the field, and when he played he had minimal impact.

Then we tried him at Mike after Poz left, with the idea his speed and athleticism would be an asset inside.  The problem is he couldn't handle calling the defensive signals.

They finally moved him to will and he had his best season.

Then came the switch to  the 3-4, where UM ignored all of the previous year's progress, moved him inside and had him call the defensive signals again.  That lasted about 1/3 -3/4 of the season.  During that time, some of the same issues that were a problem when he was at Sam (not protected b the scheme) rose up and he had to take on bigger guards in the run game.

In a 3-4, the OLBs are typically taller, lengthier pass rusher types.  Some would even go as far as to call them hybrid DEs.  Jack doesn't fit that paradigm.

Jack is an athletic player to be sure. That negated play in the AFC Championship, his return against the Jets, and his INT against the Steelers in the playoffs exemplify his athleticism.  But I'm not sure it's a stretch to say he's not a good scheme fit in a 3-4 based upon his stay here and his physical attributes.

Sure, but a 5th round pick?  No way.   It's very doubtful we could replace him with a 5th round pick.  So I agree with the person who said, let's stop churning our roster as if we are 100% certain that trading him for a late round pick will result in an improvement.   He's a talented player and we need to stop losing talented players.  Surely the coaching staff can figure out how to use a talented player.

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I think it will come down to if Mike Caldwell wants to work with Jack. If I remember correctly MC spoke highly of Jack and I'm sure will want to work with him to help fix his flaws. Last year I think Jack was hurt, he looked slow and was in and out with injuries. Hopefully he's 100%

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I don't get what makes his take so ridiculous.

Let's review Jack's tenure here.

His rookie year, he played Sam because Telvin Smith had will and Poz was Mike.  Jack barely saw the field, and when he played he had minimal impact.

Then we tried him at Mike after Poz left, with the idea his speed and athleticism would be an asset inside.  The problem is he couldn't handle calling the defensive signals.

They finally moved him to will and he had his best season.

Then came the switch to  the 3-4, where UM ignored all of the previous year's progress, moved him inside and had him call the defensive signals again.  That lasted about 1/3 -3/4 of the season.  During that time, some of the same issues that were a problem when he was at Sam (not protected b the scheme) rose up and he had to take on bigger guards in the run game.

In a 3-4, the OLBs are typically taller, lengthier pass rusher types.  Some would even go as far as to call them hybrid DEs.  Jack doesn't fit that paradigm.

Jack is an athletic player to be sure. That negated play in the AFC Championship, his return against the Jets, and his INT against the Steelers in the playoffs exemplify his athleticism.  But I'm not sure it's a stretch to say he's not a good scheme fit in a 3-4 based upon his stay here and his physical attributes.

Sure, but a 5th round pick?  No way.   It's very doubtful we could replace him with a 5th round pick.  So I agree with the person who said, let's stop churning our roster as if we are 100% certain that trading him for a late round pick will result in an improvement.   He's a talented player and we need to stop losing talented players.  Surely the coaching staff can figure out how to use a talented player.

But whether

A.  We get enough in trade compensation for him and;
B.  Whether a 5th round pick could actually upgrade the team. either directly at his position or elsewhere

is a completely different issue as to whether he is a fit in a 3-4, which was the part I was addressing.

As for the issues you reference here

a.  I don't think we could expect to get much more than a 5th round pick for him if we traded him.  We spent a 3 and a 5 to get Mark Brunell, a then in his prime QB with little playing experience.  We traded Marcus Stroud, a three time Pro Bowler, for 3rd and 5th round picks.

Jack never made any Pro Bowls with us (or received any other post season accolades), and if he is best as an off ball 4-3 LB, that will suppress his trade value further since he'll be 27 when this season starts and he isn't on a rookie deal.

B.  The chances of a 5th round pick actually upgrading Jack directly or the team generally are pretty slim.  However, it's not as if it's unheard of for a 5th round pick to excel in the league.  Zack Thomas was a 5th round pick at MLB and made numerous Pro Bowls.

I think barring injury or a concerted effort by the new coaching staff to get rid of him, Jack stays here a couple of more years if he wants. getting better at LB is a mandate for a 3-4 team.

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I need to rethink on Dotson. I knew he was going to be small, but to be that small and also to bomb the agility and be just ok in the jumps is kinda worrisome. Even the good 40 time is kind of up in the air since everyone ran so fast because of the new Indy turf. If he's really more like a 4.5 flat guy instead of a 4.41 guy then he is just a bad physical package all around.

I honestly might rather have Pickens straight up now.

He ran a 4.43 in Indy.

https://www.nfl.com/combine/tracker/live...-colleges/

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Jameson is still WR1.

Just saw a mock yesterday that had Williams lasting until Detroit's pick at 32.

If that happens, that would be a scenario I wouldn't mind moving up a few spots to land him.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Jameson is still WR1.

Just saw a mock yesterday that had Williams lasting until Detroit's pick at 32.

If that happens, that would be a scenario I wouldn't mind moving up a few spots to land him.

The magic number to move up for Williams, in my opinion, is 25. The Jaguars would part with pick 33 and their 2nd 3rd rounder. I'd even sweeten this deal with a 5th or 6th rounder, if necessary. Williams is the one receiver in this class who seems to have it all (if he recovers 100% from injury). He has size, blazing speed and toughness. Even if he misses some games due to rehabbing the ACL, the long term value far exceeds the liability of missing some games. This team isn't going to the playoffs next season anyway, so investing in Williams makes sense. I love Dotson, but his frame could present him with some problems in the NFL. If they can't get Williams by moving up, Dotson would still be a good choice at 33. I just don't see that he has the upside of Jameson Williams.

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I simply can’t see the value in trading him. It may be true that he is at his best as a will linebacker in a 43. But I think with the right coaching he can be more than adequate as an off ball linebacker in a 34. If we ask him to do mainly coverage, cleanup, and not call the defense and put a bigger run stopper true 34 inside linebacker next to him, I don’t see where we’re hurt with having him. And since most of us agree we can’t get fair compensation toreplace him with a player of at least his caliber in return, This is not a hard decision for me. We can’t get better getting rid of our good players.

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Fix the O-Line!

My WR rankings

1. London
2. Watson
3. Williams

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[...]

Jack is an athletic player to be sure. That negated play in the AFC Championship, his return against the Jets, and his INT against the Steelers in the playoffs exemplify his athleticism.  But I'm not sure it's a stretch to say he's not a good scheme fit in a 3-4 based upon his stay here and his physical attributes.

Sure, but a 5th round pick?  No way.   It's very doubtful we could replace him with a 5th round pick.  So I agree with the person who said, let's stop churning our roster as if we are 100% certain that trading him for a late round pick will result in an improvement.   He's a talented player and we need to stop losing talented players.  Surely the coaching staff can figure out how to use a talented player.

You lose some value due to his contract. The trading team will be paying him 10+ each year for the next two years if they don't renegotiate. It's not about using the fifth to replace him, either. That's not how this works.

Moving on from him frees up 8.5M this season and close to 14 next season. That's money that can be spent on someone who's a better fit in a 3-4 defense. The fifth also affords some mobility to move other picks up the draft to target players that fit scheme, fill need, and improve the roster. That may be a reserve LB, or it may be a G/C, but in the end the goal is to fill the roster with players that fit scheme and reduce liability. As it stands, starting Jack at ILB poses a liability.

Are you content paying $10M for a liability on the field? He's miscast, it's unfortunate, but that can happen when a team changes its scheme.

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Jameson is still WR1.

Just saw a mock yesterday that had Williams lasting until Detroit's pick at 32.

If that happens, that would be a scenario I wouldn't mind moving up a few spots to land him.

If that happens, I sure hope we talk to teams sooner than 31 to go up and get him.

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Jameson is still WR1.

Just saw a mock yesterday that had Williams lasting until Detroit's pick at 32.

If that happens, that would be a scenario I wouldn't mind moving up a few spots to land him.

Agreed. I saw a video of Williams rehabbing and he's already pushing a weighted sled. He may be back sooner than expected and just on talent alone, he's a top 5 player in this draft.

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I simply can’t see the value in trading him. It may be true that he is at his best as a will linebacker in a 43. But I think with the right coaching he can be more than adequate as an off ball linebacker in a 34. If we ask him to do mainly coverage, cleanup, and not call the defense and put a bigger run stopper true 34 inside linebacker next to him, I don’t see where we’re hurt with having him. And since most of us agree we can’t get fair compensation toreplace him with a player of at least his caliber in return, This is not a hard decision for me. We can’t get better getting rid of our good players.

You can't fit a round hole into a square peg. At this point in his career, he is what he is. He's a good player as a 4-3 OLB, he isn't in any other linebacker position or scheme and we now have a 3-4 base defense. He is not a good fit for our current scheme. That is simply a fact. He can't cover. We've been killed by opposing TE's for a few years now. This past Bengals game is a great example of that. C.J. Uzomah was unstoppable, because our LB's and safeties couldn't cover him. We desperately need a true 3-4 ILB with coverage ability or this will keep happening over and over. No amount of coaching is gonna change this. 

I realize that people have an emotional attachment to Myles Jack. He was once one of our best defensive players and he stuck with us when other players like Ramsey and Ngakoue caused all kinds of problems, but Jack is no longer the player he once was. It's time to let go of the past and do what's right for the team and for Jack. Let him go to a 4-3 team where he can be a real contributor at his true position and we can find a ILB who truly fits our scheme and won't let opposing TE's destroy us.

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I simply can’t see the value in trading him. It may be true that he is at his best as a will linebacker in a 43. But I think with the right coaching he can be more than adequate as an off ball linebacker in a 34. If we ask him to do mainly coverage, cleanup, and not call the defense and put a bigger run stopper true 34 inside linebacker next to him, I don’t see where we’re hurt with having him. And since most of us agree we can’t get fair compensation toreplace him with a player of at least his caliber in return, This is not a hard decision for me. We can’t get better getting rid of our good players.

You can't fit a round hole into a square peg. At this point in his career, he is what he is. He's a good player as a 4-3 OLB, he isn't in any other linebacker position or scheme and we now have a 3-4 base defense. He is not a good fit for our current scheme. That is simply a fact. He can't cover. We've been killed by opposing TE's for a few years now. This past Bengals game is a great example of that. C.J. Uzomah was unstoppable, because our LB's and safeties couldn't cover him. We desperately need a true 3-4 ILB with coverage ability or this will keep happening over and over. No amount of coaching is gonna change this. 

I realize that people have an emotional attachment to Myles Jack. He was once one of our best defensive players and he stuck with us when other players like Ramsey and Ngakoue caused all kinds of problems, but Jack is no longer the player he once was. It's time to let go of the past and do what's right for the team and for Jack. Let him go to a 4-3 team where he can be a real contributor at his true position and we can find a ILB who truly fits our scheme and won't let opposing TE's destroy us.

Keep him. See what the new coaching staff can do with him. You can’t replace everyone in one year. If somehow we end up signing some greAt free agent linebackers, then I’ll change my mind.

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You can't fit a round hole into a square peg. At this point in his career, he is what he is. He's a good player as a 4-3 OLB, he isn't in any other linebacker position or scheme and we now have a 3-4 base defense. He is not a good fit for our current scheme. That is simply a fact. He can't cover. We've been killed by opposing TE's for a few years now. This past Bengals game is a great example of that. C.J. Uzomah was unstoppable, because our LB's and safeties couldn't cover him. We desperately need a true 3-4 ILB with coverage ability or this will keep happening over and over. No amount of coaching is gonna change this. 

I realize that people have an emotional attachment to Myles Jack. He was once one of our best defensive players and he stuck with us when other players like Ramsey and Ngakoue caused all kinds of problems, but Jack is no longer the player he once was. It's time to let go of the past and do what's right for the team and for Jack. Let him go to a 4-3 team where he can be a real contributor at his true position and we can find a ILB who truly fits our scheme and won't let opposing TE's destroy us.

Keep him. See what the new coaching staff can do with him. You can’t replace everyone in one year. If somehow we end up signing some greAt free agent linebackers, then I’ll change my mind.

 What are we gonna see that we haven't already seen?

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My WR rankings

1. London
2. Watson
3. Williams

I dislike London.

Watson and Williams I can get behind...but not London, even though he may be more of a scheme fit than Watson or Williams.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

My WR rankings

1. London
2. Watson
3. Williams

I dislike London.

Watson and Williams I can get behind...but not London, even though he may be more of a scheme fit than Watson or Williams.

What do you dislike about London?  I think he can play in any scheme

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