Agreed. It may not be meaningless, but people need to distinguish between a speed receiver and a receiver who gets separation via great route running. One is not superior to the other. Cooper Kupp and Tyreek Hill are two completely different types of players. Both are great NFL players. One consistently moves the chains by getting 10-20 yard catches on the regular and the other is a big play guy who can break an 80 yard touchdown. We need either, preferably one of each. I don't care which order we get them in. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would draft 3 WR's from this class. I take a WR at #33, I take another with one of our 3rd round picks and I take another with one of our 7th rounders. I'm taking a great route runner, a speed WR and another that I have a good feeling about in the final round. They don't all have to be speed guys.

It's not just that.

A fast 40 yard dash does not even mean you can get open or catch when you do get open.

One of the guys who held the record for the fastest 40 yard time was John Ross, who was drafted 9th overall by the Bengals not too long ago, after he ran a 4.22 40.

But he was widely considered a bust with Cincy, and is now with the Giants, making little impact with them.

Why?

Because pure speed is only part of the whole equation.

If you don't have the upper body strength and short space quickness to avoid or escape the jam at the LOS, you quickly can become a non factor on plays where QBs typically have 2.5-3 seconds to get rid of the ball.

One of the things that made Jimmy Smith so great is he had the ability to make every route look the same.  Often a DB didn't know what kind of route he was running, and an in route looked no different than a go route at the point.  That ability causes the split second of hesitation needed to create separation either deep or underneath.   If you don't have the body control or change of direction ability, you can't create that hesitation required to create the separation, making it harder for you to make the play as the receiver/easier for the DB to make the play.

This dynamic doesn''t just apply to receivers.

The term "workout warrior," exists for a reason.  Teams that place too much emphasis on combine results at the expense of the film pay the price.  (see Mike Mamula.)

Now there are receivers that have the complete package-the blazing 40 time, the size, physicality, route running, etc. (or at least enough of the complete package to be good player).  Guys like Moss, Megatron, Joey Galloway, James Lofton are some that leap to mind.  If you can find guys with the whole package great.  

But the moral of the story is not to overemphasize these combine results.  They give you a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire picture.

Agreed. Don't get me started on John Ross. Yes, he had blazing speed, but he also had legs like toothpicks. That guy could never stay healthy. He was always hurt, usually with a leg injury (surprise, surprise.) He drove my friends here in Ohio, absolutely crazy! Teams are willing to overlook a lot of red flags to get a speedy WR and it rarely works out if that is their only attribute. Give me a guy with a slower 40 time, great hands and who was consistently open in college and can run the entire route tree seamlessly. 

I know people want those traits too, but they also want speed as well. The guys who possess everything are extremely rare though. They don't just grow on trees. Sometimes you need to recognize that a slower WR isn't just fodder for the scrap heap. Cooper Kupp was the best receiver in the NFL last season and he's been one of the best receivers in the NFL for years. He's a 4.6/40 guy. If he were to enter the draft today, knowing what we know now, would anyone say he isn't a 1st round pick?

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Agreed. It may not be meaningless, but people need to distinguish between a speed receiver and a receiver who gets separation via great route running. One is not superior to the other. Cooper Kupp and Tyreek Hill are two completely different types of players. Both are great NFL players. One consistently moves the chains by getting 10-20 yard catches on the regular and the other is a big play guy who can break an 80 yard touchdown. We need either, preferably one of each. I don't care which order we get them in. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would draft 3 WR's from this class. I take a WR at #33, I take another with one of our 3rd round picks and I take another with one of our 7th rounders. I'm taking a great route runner, a speed WR and another that I have a good feeling about in the final round. They don't all have to be speed guys.

It's not just that.

A fast 40 yard dash does not even mean you can get open or catch when you do get open.

One of the guys who held the record for the fastest 40 yard time was John Ross, who was drafted 9th overall by the Bengals not too long ago, after he ran a 4.22 40.

But he was widely considered a bust with Cincy, and is now with the Giants, making little impact with them.

Why?

Because pure speed is only part of the whole equation.

If you don't have the upper body strength and short space quickness to avoid or escape the jam at the LOS, you quickly can become a non factor on plays where QBs typically have 2.5-3 seconds to get rid of the ball.

One of the things that made Jimmy Smith so great is he had the ability to make every route look the same.  Often a DB didn't know what kind of route he was running, and an in route looked no different than a go route at the point.  That ability causes the split second of hesitation needed to create separation either deep or underneath.   If you don't have the body control or change of direction ability, you can't create that hesitation required to create the separation, making it harder for you to make the play as the receiver/easier for the DB to make the play.

This dynamic doesn''t just apply to receivers.

The term "workout warrior," exists for a reason.  Teams that place too much emphasis on combine results at the expense of the film pay the price.  (see Mike Mamula.)

Now there are receivers that have the complete package-the blazing 40 time, the size, physicality, route running, etc. (or at least enough of the complete package to be good player).  Guys like Moss, Megatron, Joey Galloway, James Lofton are some that leap to mind.  If you can find guys with the whole package great.  

But the moral of the story is not to overemphasize these combine results.  They give you a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire picture.

The biggest reason Ross was a bust was because of injuries.

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How in the hell does NFL Network report all these ridiculous 40 times for the WR's and the official times are nowhere even close to being what the official times really were? How does Chris Olave go from a 4.26 to an official 4.39? That is a ridiculously HUGE difference! Tyquan Thornton went from a record setting 4.21 to an official 4.28? That's not even close. How could they be so inaccurate with these times?

because we have yet to install the RFID chips in pro prospects. Give it time, OLM. Give it time.

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https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status...BZq38Tz7Qg

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Jerry Rice ran a 4.71

Either you can ball or you can't.

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https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status...BZq38Tz7Qg

Nice!

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Terrible take. Bell is not a speed guy. He creates separation via excellent route running, great hands and technique. Cooper Kupp

Well it's a good thing I said athlete in general and not just 40 time! Bell was terrible across the board. In fact, since you brought up Kupp. They actually are quite similar until you get to the fact that Kupp had elite short area quickness whereas Bell is, yet again, among the worst athletes in the sport. There are no examples of an athlete as bad as Bell across the board being a success.

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Terrible take. Bell is not a speed guy. He creates separation via excellent route running, great hands and technique. Cooper Kupp

Well it's a good thing I said athlete in general and not just 40 time! Bell was terrible across the board. In fact, since you brought up Kupp. They actually are quite similar until you get to the fact that Kupp had elite short area quickness whereas Bell is, yet again, among the worst athletes in the sport. There are no examples of an athlete as bad as Bell across the board being a success.

I don't care about any of that. I go by the eyeball test and this kid consistently gets open and makes great plays. Just put on the tape. He has consistently been one of the best WR's in the country for 3 years, despite average QB play at Purdue.

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You should care about any of that. Betting on extreme outliers is not a recipe for success.

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Man, people were talking about how Cross was going to be relatively disappointing compared to his mocked projections but he killed it today.

Ekwonu checked all the boxes too, but I still don't get why he is mocked ahead of Cross everywhere.

If we do go EDGE at 1 Abraham Lucas looks like he'd be an awesome pick at 65 or 70.

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In years past, it seemed a quarter of the RBs showed hands of stone in passing drills. This year, they all look like natural pass catchers. I think good RB depth can be found in the later rounds.

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In years past, it seemed a quarter of the RBs showed hands of stone in passing drills.  This year, they all look like natural pass catchers.  I think good RB depth can be found in the later rounds.

Yeah.  I think a good rotational back can be found in round 5 or 6 if the current rankings are anywhere near accurate.

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Fix the O-Line!

Here are some reports on the TE position from the Combine, courtesy of walterfootball.com

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockTE.php

If walterfootball is accurate, it seems like Texas A & M TE Jalen Wydermeyer may start trending downward.

Here is some buzz on the WR stock.

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockWR.php

If Justyn ross was 100% cleared, why the hell didn't he run?!?

I don't quite understand the whole thing about preferring to run at your own campus to the exclusion of performing at the combine, barring some sort of health issue precluding you from doing so.  It's not like you will play in your own home stadium every game in your NFL career.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

In years past, it seemed a quarter of the RBs showed hands of stone in passing drills.  This year, they all look like natural pass catchers.  I think good RB depth can be found in the later rounds.

That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't draft one. This RB is loaded. I actually have like 25 RB's that I like. There is no way all of them are gonna get drafted. There just isn't that many teams with RB needs. There will be some very good RB's sitting out there as UDFA's that we wouldn't have to use a pick on. I'd bring in a couple. It's ideal!

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Here are some reports on the TE position from the Combine, courtesy of walterfootball.com

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockTE.php

If walterfootball is accurate, it seems like Texas A & M TE Jalen Wydermeyer may start trending downward.

Here is some buzz on the WR stock.

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockWR.php

If Justyn ross was 100% cleared, why the hell didn't he run?!?

I don't quite understand the whole thing about preferring to run at your own campus to the exclusion of performing at the combine, barring some sort of health issue precluding you from doing so.  It's not like you will play in your own home stadium every game in your NFL career.

Honest to God, with all his injuries I don't even have him ranked. I wouldn't waste a draft pick on him. I'd only add him as an UDFA.

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Man, people were talking about how Cross was going to be relatively disappointing compared to his mocked projections but he killed it today.

Ekwonu checked all the boxes too, but I still don't get why he is mocked ahead of Cross everywhere.

If we do go EDGE at 1 Abraham Lucas looks like he'd be an awesome pick at 65 or 70.

Agreed. I like Raimann, Sayler, Diesch and Goedeke in this class as well. Some of these guy should be there in RD4/RD5. Good option to have in 2022 to move on from Taylor at RT. Sayler would be a great fit at guard for a little bit before moving to tackle as well.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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In years past, it seemed a quarter of the RBs showed hands of stone in passing drills.  This year, they all look like natural pass catchers.  I think good RB depth can be found in the later rounds.

That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't draft one. This RB is loaded. I actually have like 25 RB's that I like. There is no way all of them are gonna get drafted. There just isn't that many teams with RB needs. There will be some very good RB's sitting out there as UDFA's that we wouldn't have to use a pick on. I'd bring in a couple. It's ideal!

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Here are some reports on the TE position from the Combine, courtesy of walterfootball.com

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockTE.php

If walterfootball is accurate, it seems like Texas A & M TE Jalen Wydermeyer may start trending downward.

Here is some buzz on the WR stock.

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockWR.php

If Justyn ross was 100% cleared, why the hell didn't he run?!?

I don't quite understand the whole thing about preferring to run at your own campus to the exclusion of performing at the combine, barring some sort of health issue precluding you from doing so.  It's not like you will play in your own home stadium every game in your NFL career.

Honest to God, with all his injuries I don't even have him ranked. I wouldn't waste a draft pick on him. I'd only add him as an UDFA.

Again. The injuries. Not buying into that. Had one year with a serious injury. Played the same amount of games as Higgins did at Clemson. Had nearly identical numbers with the disadvantage of playing one year during covid and one year without Lawrence.

If he clocks a 4.4 at his pro day nobody will really care that he skipped at the combine. Is he the best receiver of this class? Of course not. However, remember who the general manager is in that building in Jacksonville.

Ross is ideal based on Baalke's track record with the WR position. Factor in his connection with Lawrence? He's going to more than likely end up a Jaguar.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

In years past, it seemed a quarter of the RBs showed hands of stone in passing drills.  This year, they all look like natural pass catchers.  I think good RB depth can be found in the later rounds.

That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't draft one. This RB is loaded. I actually have like 25 RB's that I like. There is no way all of them are gonna get drafted. There just isn't that many teams with RB needs. There will be some very good RB's sitting out there as UDFA's that we wouldn't have to use a pick on. I'd bring in a couple. It's ideal!

---

Here are some reports on the TE position from the Combine, courtesy of walterfootball.com

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockTE.php

If walterfootball is accurate, it seems like Texas A & M TE Jalen Wydermeyer may start trending downward.

Here is some buzz on the WR stock.

https://walterfootball.com/combine2022stockWR.php

If Justyn ross was 100% cleared, why the hell didn't he run?!?

I don't quite understand the whole thing about preferring to run at your own campus to the exclusion of performing at the combine, barring some sort of health issue precluding you from doing so.  It's not like you will play in your own home stadium every game in your NFL career.

Honest to God, with all his injuries I don't even have him ranked. I wouldn't waste a draft pick on him. I'd only add him as an UDFA.

(Emphasis added)

Oh, your stance on Ross has been quite clear for a long time.  Given the nature of his injuries, as a layperson, I share your level of concern.  I have to imagine actual team doctors would have a lower medical grade on him than most players.

That said, if he becomes a UDFA, I would make him a priority signing.  At that point, he is worth the risk if he's cleared by medical to be able to play.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't draft one. This RB is loaded. I actually have like 25 RB's that I like. There is no way all of them are gonna get drafted. There just isn't that many teams with RB needs. There will be some very good RB's sitting out there as UDFA's that we wouldn't have to use a pick on. I'd bring in a couple. It's ideal!

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Honest to God, with all his injuries I don't even have him ranked. I wouldn't waste a draft pick on him. I'd only add him as an UDFA.

(Emphasis added)

Oh, your stance on Ross has been quite clear for a long time.  Given the nature of his injuries, as a layperson, I share your level of concern.  I have to imagine actual team doctors would have a lower medical grade on him than most players.

That said, if he becomes a UDFA, I would make him a priority signing.  At that point, he is worth the risk if he's cleared by medical to be able to play.

HA

No chance Ross is an UDFA. His stock (and Pickens) is rising by the day. Both have the skill set to be a WR1 and you can’t say that out of all the top WRs.

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Man, people were talking about how Cross was going to be relatively disappointing compared to his mocked projections but he killed it today.

Ekwonu checked all the boxes too, but I still don't get why he is mocked ahead of Cross everywhere.

If we do go EDGE at 1 Abraham Lucas looks like he'd be an awesome pick at 65 or 70.

Agreed. I like Raimann, Sayler, Diesch and Goedeke in this class as well. Some of these guy should be there in RD4/RD5. Good option to have in 2022 to move on from Taylor at RT. Sayler would be a great fit at guard for a little bit before moving to tackle as well.

Raimann's a 1st round lock now IMO. Diesch is uber athletic but has arm length issues. I'd still take him at some point, not sure where his draft stock is right now.

Goedeke and Salyer are OG only IMO.

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No chance Ross is an UDFA. His stock (and Pickens) is rising by the day. Both have the skill set to be a WR1 and you can’t say that out of all the top WRs.

If I had to predict right now I would predict Pickens is ours at 33.

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Thibs is so long. No wonder he uses the one arm separation so often.

Wow Walker crazy long too.

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Agreed. I like Raimann, Sayler, Diesch and Goedeke in this class as well. Some of these guy should be there in RD4/RD5. Good option to have in 2022 to move on from Taylor at RT. Sayler would be a great fit at guard for a little bit before moving to tackle as well.

Raimann's a 1st round lock now IMO. Diesch is uber athletic but has arm length issues. I'd still take him at some point, not sure where his draft stock is right now.

Goedeke and Salyer are OG only IMO.

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No chance Ross is an UDFA. His stock (and Pickens) is rising by the day. Both have the skill set to be a WR1 and you can’t say that out of all the top WRs.

If I had to predict right now I would predict Pickens is ours at 33.

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