I love how no one says anything about these.

BTW if the Bengals had had a better O-line they would have won the SB as Chase (Higgins or some other WR) were torching Ramsey. Chase had Ramsey beaten but Burrow couldn't deliver the pass. If the Bengals win that game Ramsey would have been one of the biggest culprits.
Now you pretty much act like 2017 was thanks to only Ramsey and Ngakoue 

And before anyone says "no one said that" 

"The MOST you've said is that their presence would not have made any difference on a team this bad. Aside from our history showing that wasn't true...giving us our first and only winning season between 2008 amd the present" post #46 which also puts some words in my mouth I never said but whatever.

Don't mind me though, keep crying about a guy no one wants to keep and is one of the worst at his position vs the run and a guy who faked an injury to get out of this team, has a big mouth and in the biggest game of his life he was average at best... not to mention their big fragile egos.

What else is there to say about those statements that doesn't belabor the obvious?

Yes, Ngakpue has gone to a lot of teams in a short period of time.  Know who else has done that?  Brandin Cooks, who has been traded more than Ngakoue has.But as much as you want to make that a negative for Ngakoue (and by extension Brandin Cooks), the fact is, both players are better than anyone Jacksonville has at those positions-to say nothing of the fact teams were still interested in acquiring both players.  Both players have been on teams far better than the Jaguars have been since they traded Ngakoue.  You keep harping on Ngakoue being traded several times, but it doesn't change anything.  The Jaguars still haven't drafted or signed anyone that matches his production.

As for Ramsey having a bad Super Bowl...I can agree with that I can agree with the idea that if Burrow had better protection on that final play, Ramsey likely would have been beaten for the winning TD in the Super Bowl.  But the key phrase is "in the Super Bowl."  Despite all of the vilification those on your side like to heap on Ramsey, the fact is almost every team in the league was interested in trading for him, and the team that wound up trading for him was the team that won the Super Bowl.  They were in no way dissuaded from trading for him, nor were they in any way dissuaded from signing him to a long term contract.  After trading Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars were nowhere close to winning the Super Bowl.  In fact, the team was literally the furthest team away from winning the Super Bowl.  The last time the Jaguars were even close to the Super Bowl was in 2017, with a team featuring....wait for it....Jalen Ramsey and Yannick Ngakoue. 

I'm also not sure why you think their presence would have only made the difference in 1 game.  Out of what body cavity of yours did you pull that figure?!?

What kills me is you take some sort of victory in not paying for players who have performed at a high level for this team, only to celebrate a record breaking class of free agent signings of players totaling over $170 million in guaranteed money to guys who were nowhere near as productive for their teams as Ramsey and Ngakoue were for ours.  We signed a #3 WR at best in Kirk, a #4 WR at best in Zay Jones, who failed miserably in Buffahole, a guy who was deemed a disappointment in NY for Evan Engram.  Scherff was a good signing.  Oluakun and FO were good signings.  Williams was a good signing.  But our cap, at face value, isn't as good as it might otherwise have been before all of the signings.  So you burned through all of the cap room you created by not signing Ngakoue and Ramsey for players not as good.  The team hasn't won any more games since trading them away.  We didn't even maximize the return from the trades, absolutely botching the 2020 draft.  What is there to show for letting them get away?

Lol, Yawn isn't better than Josh Allen.  Give me Allen any daybof the week and twice on Sunday.

---

I love how no one says anything about these.

BTW if the Bengals had had a better O-line they would have won the SB as Chase (Higgins or some other WR) were torching Ramsey. Chase had Ramsey beaten but Burrow couldn't deliver the pass. If the Bengals win that game Ramsey would have been one of the biggest culprits.
Now you pretty much act like 2017 was thanks to only Ramsey and Ngakoue 

And before anyone says "no one said that" 

"The MOST you've said is that their presence would not have made any difference on a team this bad. Aside from our history showing that wasn't true...giving us our first and only winning season between 2008 amd the present" post #46 which also puts some words in my mouth I never said but whatever.

Don't mind me though, keep crying about a guy no one wants to keep and is one of the worst at his position vs the run and a guy who faked an injury to get out of this team, has a big mouth and in the biggest game of his life he was average at best... not to mention their big fragile egos.

What else is there to say about those statements that doesn't belabor the obvious?

Yes, Ngakpue has gone to a lot of teams in a short period of time.  Know who else has done that?  Brandin Cooks, 1 guy LOL who is also not a superstar but at least he is better at his position than Yawn who has been traded more than Ngakoue has. Cooks is not on his 5th team in four years but ok But as much as you want to make that a negative for Ngakoue (and by extension Brandin Cooks), the fact is, both players are better than anyone Jacksonville has at those positions LOL Allen is better overall and all of our DE/OLB are better vs the run than Yawn-to say nothing of the fact teams were still interested in acquiring both players.  Both players have been on teams far better than the Jaguars have been since they traded Ngakoue.  You keep harping on Ngakoue being traded several times, but it doesn't change anything For you maybe, The fact is NO ONE WANTS TOO KEEP THE GUY, NO ONE WANTS TO SIGN HIM LONG TERM, MUCH LESS FOR WHAT HE THINKS HE IS WORTH BECAUSE SIMPLY HE IS NOT WORTH THAT.  The Jaguars still haven't drafted or signed anyone that matches his production. For sacks only

As for Ramsey having a bad Super Bowl...I can agree with that I can agree with the idea that if Burrow had better protection on that final play, Ramsey likely would have been beaten for the winning TD in the Super Bowl.  But the key phrase is "in the Super Bowl."  Despite all of the vilification those on your side like to heap on Ramsey, the fact is almost every team in the league was interested almost every team? I don't remember that, have a link for that? I remember 4 maybe 5 teams in trading for him, and the team that wound up trading for him was the team that won the Super Bowl Hahahahaha yeah the team that only won it because they changed the QB for someone capable, and you say this like Ramsey is the only good player in that team LMAO .  They were in no way dissuaded from trading for him, nor were they in any way dissuaded from signing him to a long term contract Why you keep bringing this up? KHAN SAID HE WAS WILLING TO MAKE HIM THE HIGHEST PAID CB IN THE LEAGUE, WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?.  After trading Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars were nowhere close to winning the Super Bowl HAHAHAHA and this is only due to the fact that we traded those 2? lolololololol.  In fact, the team was literally the furthest team away from winning the Super Bowl.  The last time the Jaguars were even close to the Super Bowl was in 2017, with a team featuring....wait for it....Jalen Ramsey and Yannick Ngakoue. Yeah because they were the stars of the team LOL Bouye was as good as Ramsey that year, we had Telvin, M. Jackson, Dareus, Poz and Calais was our best D-line player and it wasn't even close, but yeah it was only thanks to Ngkoue and Ramsey xD

I'm also not sure why you think their presence would have only made the difference in 1 game.  Out of what body cavity of yours did you pull that figure?!? Ok then show me proof we would have gone to the playoffs with those 2 on the team, I'll wait. I guess you also forgot BOTH guys were on the team on 2018 and what happened? LOL 5-11

What kills me is you take some sort of victory in not paying for players who have performed at a high level for this team, only to celebrate a record breaking class of free agent signings of players totaling over $170 million Celebrate? I said Baalke did good, that's about it, I don't remember celebrating much, you are welcome to prove me wrong though. Also none of the guys we signed were headaches like those 2 guys you love so much in guaranteed money to guys who were nowhere near as productive for their teams as Ramsey and Ngakoue were for ours.  We signed a #3 WR at best in Kirk, a #4 WR at best in Zay Jones, who failed miserably in Buffahole, a guy who was deemed a disappointment in NY for Evan Engram.  Scherff was a good signing.  Oluakun and FO were good signings.  Williams was a good signing.  But our cap, at face value, isn't as good as it might otherwise have been before all of the signings.  So you burned through all of the cap room you created by not signing Ngakoue and Ramsey for players not as good.  The team hasn't won any more games since trading them away Because those 2 are the only guys that left, and nothing else happened that could have made us a worse team right? my god .  We didn't even maximize the return from the trades, absolutely botching the 2020 draft.  What is there to show for letting them get away? Show me proof that we would be a much better team with much better talent and a record had we kept those guys

And once freaking again (starting to wonder if you have alzheimer or something) 

One idiot FAKED AN INJURY just to get his wish and HE OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WANNA STAY HERE
The other idiot thought he was the best pass rusher in the league (LOL) and thought he deserved and big fat contract when NO ONE BUT YOU AND HIM think he deserves that. He also was being a headcase and even insulted the owner. He also refused to negotiate and asked for a trade

AGAIN, THEY DIDN'T WANNA BE HERE ANYMORE!!! 

I wanted Ramsey to stay (WE ALL DID) before he started his crap, HE WASN'T GONNA SIGN A CONTRACT WITH US ANYMORE!!
Ngakoue you can sing all the praise you want but 3 facts 1.- NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE HIM A BIG FAT CONTRACT OR EVEN KEEP HIM FOR MORE THAN 1 YEAR. 2 HE IS GOD AWFUL VS THE RUN. 3 HE IS A GOOD PASS RUSHER, NOT GREAT, NOT ELITE WHICH IS WHY NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE HIM THE MONEY HE WANTS.

I am out. It's pathetic people still cry about this.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

What else is there to say about those statements that doesn't belabor the obvious?

Yes, Ngakpue has gone to a lot of teams in a short period of time.  Know who else has done that?  Brandin Cooks, 1 guy LOL who is also not a superstar but at least he is better at his position than Yawn who has been traded more than Ngakoue has. Cooks is not on his 5th team in four years but ok But as much as you want to make that a negative for Ngakoue (and by extension Brandin Cooks), the fact is, both players are better than anyone Jacksonville has at those positions LOL Allen is better overall and all of our DE/OLB are better vs the run than Yawn-to say nothing of the fact teams were still interested in acquiring both players.  Both players have been on teams far better than the Jaguars have been since they traded Ngakoue.  You keep harping on Ngakoue being traded several times, but it doesn't change anything For you maybe, The fact is NO ONE WANTS TOO KEEP THE GUY, NO ONE WANTS TO SIGN HIM LONG TERM, MUCH LESS FOR WHAT HE THINKS HE IS WORTH BECAUSE SIMPLY HE IS NOT WORTH THAT.  The Jaguars still haven't drafted or signed anyone that matches his production. For sacks only

As for Ramsey having a bad Super Bowl...I can agree with that I can agree with the idea that if Burrow had better protection on that final play, Ramsey likely would have been beaten for the winning TD in the Super Bowl.  But the key phrase is "in the Super Bowl."  Despite all of the vilification those on your side like to heap on Ramsey, the fact is almost every team in the league was interested almost every team? I don't remember that, have a link for that? I remember 4 maybe 5 teams in trading for him, and the team that wound up trading for him was the team that won the Super Bowl Hahahahaha yeah the team that only won it because they changed the QB for someone capable, and you say this like Ramsey is the only good player in that team LMAO .  They were in no way dissuaded from trading for him, nor were they in any way dissuaded from signing him to a long term contract Why you keep bringing this up? KHAN SAID HE WAS WILLING TO MAKE HIM THE HIGHEST PAID CB IN THE LEAGUE, WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?.  After trading Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars were nowhere close to winning the Super Bowl HAHAHAHA and this is only due to the fact that we traded those 2? lolololololol.  In fact, the team was literally the furthest team away from winning the Super Bowl.  The last time the Jaguars were even close to the Super Bowl was in 2017, with a team featuring....wait for it....Jalen Ramsey and Yannick Ngakoue. Yeah because they were the stars of the team LOL Bouye was as good as Ramsey that year, we had Telvin, M. Jackson, Dareus, Poz and Calais was our best D-line player and it wasn't even close, but yeah it was only thanks to Ngkoue and Ramsey xD

I'm also not sure why you think their presence would have only made the difference in 1 game.  Out of what body cavity of yours did you pull that figure?!? Ok then show me proof we would have gone to the playoffs with those 2 on the team, I'll wait. I guess you also forgot BOTH guys were on the team on 2018 and what happened? LOL 5-11

What kills me is you take some sort of victory in not paying for players who have performed at a high level for this team, only to celebrate a record breaking class of free agent signings of players totaling over $170 million Celebrate? I said Baalke did good, that's about it, I don't remember celebrating much, you are welcome to prove me wrong though. Also none of the guys we signed were headaches like those 2 guys you love so much in guaranteed money to guys who were nowhere near as productive for their teams as Ramsey and Ngakoue were for ours.  We signed a #3 WR at best in Kirk, a #4 WR at best in Zay Jones, who failed miserably in Buffahole, a guy who was deemed a disappointment in NY for Evan Engram.  Scherff was a good signing.  Oluakun and FO were good signings.  Williams was a good signing.  But our cap, at face value, isn't as good as it might otherwise have been before all of the signings.  So you burned through all of the cap room you created by not signing Ngakoue and Ramsey for players not as good.  The team hasn't won any more games since trading them away Because those 2 are the only guys that left, and nothing else happened that could have made us a worse team right? my god .  We didn't even maximize the return from the trades, absolutely botching the 2020 draft.  What is there to show for letting them get away? Show me proof that we would be a much better team with much better talent and a record had we kept those guys

And once freaking again (starting to wonder if you have alzheimer or something) 

One idiot FAKED AN INJURY just to get his wish and HE OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WANNA STAY HERE
The other idiot thought he was the best pass rusher in the league (LOL) and thought he deserved and big fat contract when NO ONE BUT YOU AND HIM think he deserves that. He also was being a headcase and even insulted the owner. He also refused to negotiate and asked for a trade

AGAIN, THEY DIDN'T WANNA BE HERE ANYMORE!!! 

I wanted Ramsey to stay (WE ALL DID) before he started his crap, HE WASN'T GONNA SIGN A CONTRACT WITH US ANYMORE!!
Ngakoue you can sing all the praise you want but 3 facts 1.- NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE HIM A BIG FAT CONTRACT OR EVEN KEEP HIM FOR MORE THAN 1 YEAR. 2 HE IS GOD AWFUL VS THE RUN. 3 HE IS A GOOD PASS RUSHER, NOT GREAT, NOT ELITE WHICH IS WHY NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE HIM THE MONEY HE WANTS.

I am out. It's pathetic people still cry about this.

Your capslock kept getting stuck as you was typing that.

---

What else is there to say about those statements that doesn't belabor the obvious?

Yes, Ngakpue has gone to a lot of teams in a short period of time.  Know who else has done that?  Brandin Cooks, who has been traded more than Ngakoue has.But as much as you want to make that a negative for Ngakoue (and by extension Brandin Cooks), the fact is, both players are better than anyone Jacksonville has at those positions-to say nothing of the fact teams were still interested in acquiring both players.  Both players have been on teams far better than the Jaguars have been since they traded Ngakoue.  You keep harping on Ngakoue being traded several times, but it doesn't change anything.  The Jaguars still haven't drafted or signed anyone that matches his production.

As for Ramsey having a bad Super Bowl...I can agree with that I can agree with the idea that if Burrow had better protection on that final play, Ramsey likely would have been beaten for the winning TD in the Super Bowl.  But the key phrase is "in the Super Bowl."  Despite all of the vilification those on your side like to heap on Ramsey, the fact is almost every team in the league was interested in trading for him, and the team that wound up trading for him was the team that won the Super Bowl.  They were in no way dissuaded from trading for him, nor were they in any way dissuaded from signing him to a long term contract.  After trading Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars were nowhere close to winning the Super Bowl.  In fact, the team was literally the furthest team away from winning the Super Bowl.  The last time the Jaguars were even close to the Super Bowl was in 2017, with a team featuring....wait for it....Jalen Ramsey and Yannick Ngakoue. 

I'm also not sure why you think their presence would have only made the difference in 1 game.  Out of what body cavity of yours did you pull that figure?!?

What kills me is you take some sort of victory in not paying for players who have performed at a high level for this team, only to celebrate a record breaking class of free agent signings of players totaling over $170 million in guaranteed money to guys who were nowhere near as productive for their teams as Ramsey and Ngakoue were for ours.  We signed a #3 WR at best in Kirk, a #4 WR at best in Zay Jones, who failed miserably in Buffahole, a guy who was deemed a disappointment in NY for Evan Engram.  Scherff was a good signing.  Oluakun and FO were good signings.  Williams was a good signing.  But our cap, at face value, isn't as good as it might otherwise have been before all of the signings.  So you burned through all of the cap room you created by not signing Ngakoue and Ramsey for players not as good.  The team hasn't won any more games since trading them away.  We didn't even maximize the return from the trades, absolutely botching the 2020 draft.  What is there to show for letting them get away?

Lol, Yawn isn't better than Josh Allen.  Give me Allen any daybof the week and twice on Sunday.

Let me guess....you got this from the same source that told you Jameis Winston threw more INTs in one season than any other QB in NFL history?  The same source that told you Tebow was any good?  Maybe you'll have better luck with another position.

By the way here is a direct comparison between the two.

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder...&request=1

If you want to compare Ngakoue's first three years to Allen's, I can do that too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...akYa00.htm

Ngakoue's three year totals were 48 games to Allen's 40.  He proved to be more durable.

Forced fumbles?  10-3 Ngakoue.

INTs?  1-1.  Push.

TFL?  29-25.  Edge:  Ngakoue

FR:  2-0 Ngakoue

Tackles 128-78:  Edge Allen

Solo Tackles:  84-69 Edge:  Allen

Sacks:  29.5=20  Edge:  Ngakoue

The one thing Allen is better at is stopping the run.  He still hasn't made anywhere near the # of impact plays Ngakoue did in his first three seasons, which is the main reason to keep Ngakoue.  But if you're happy with fewer impact plays from your defense...as I said..you got the team you deserved and wanted the past two seasons.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Lol, Yawn isn't better than Josh Allen.  Give me Allen any daybof the week and twice on Sunday.

Let me guess....you got this from the same source that told you Jameis Winston threw more INTs in one season than any other QB in NFL history?  The same source that told you Tebow was any good?  Maybe you'll have better luck with another position.

By the way here is a direct comparison between the two.

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder...&request=1

If you want to compare Ngakoue's first three years to Allen's, I can do that too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...akYa00.htm

Ngakoue's three year totals were 48 games to Allen's 40.  He proved to be more durable.

Forced fumbles?  10-3 Ngakoue.

INTs?  1-1.  Push.

TFL?  29-25.  Edge:  Ngakoue

FR:  2-0 Ngakoue

Tackles 128-78:  Edge Allen

Solo Tackles:  84-69 Edge:  Allen

Sacks:  29.5=20  Edge:  Ngakoue

The one thing Allen is better at is stopping the run.  He still hasn't made anywhere near the # of impact plays Ngakoue did in his first three seasons, which is the main reason to keep Ngakoue.  But if you're happy with fewer impact plays from your defense...as I said..you got the team you deserved and wanted the past two seasons.

Winston threw more Ints than anyone in 30 years, lol.  One [BLEEP] might stink worse than the other lmao.  One thing you probably didn't know is that Yawn had waaaayyyyyyy more talent on those Jags teams than Allen has ever had.   If you want to talk about stats on a fair playing field there isn't a better way then to compare the 1 year they were both on the same team which was Allen's rookie year.  Yawn had 8 sacks while Allen had 10.5.  Not to mention Allen isn't a liability in any aspect while Yawn is the worst at his position in 1, Allen can also drop in coverage and confuse defenses and he is good at that something Yawn isn't cable of.  Yawn has had a couple good games when he got a sack strip but he has never dominated a game like Allen did last year in the Buff game.  The Colts and Dolphins game Allen was pretty dominant as well regardless what a stat sheet says.  We will see what Allen can do this year with finally some talent around him.

---

LOL, this is painful for you isn't it? The truth hurts lmao. The grades aren't even close. It's good to know we won't have the liability on the end.


https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/yannick-ngakoue/10703

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/josh-allen/50235

---

What else is there to say about those statements that doesn't belabor the obvious?

Yes, Ngakpue has gone to a lot of teams in a short period of time.  Know who else has done that?  Brandin Cooks, 1 guy LOL who is also not a superstar but at least he is better at his position than Yawn who has been traded more than Ngakoue has. Cooks is not on his 5th team in four years but ok But as much as you want to make that a negative for Ngakoue (and by extension Brandin Cooks), the fact is, both players are better than anyone Jacksonville has at those positions LOL Allen is better overall and all of our DE/OLB are better vs the run than Yawn-to say nothing of the fact teams were still interested in acquiring both players.  Both players have been on teams far better than the Jaguars have been since they traded Ngakoue.  You keep harping on Ngakoue being traded several times, but it doesn't change anything For you maybe, The fact is NO ONE WANTS TOO KEEP THE GUY, NO ONE WANTS TO SIGN HIM LONG TERM, MUCH LESS FOR WHAT HE THINKS HE IS WORTH BECAUSE SIMPLY HE IS NOT WORTH THAT.  The Jaguars still haven't drafted or signed anyone that matches his production. For sacks only

As for Ramsey having a bad Super Bowl...I can agree with that I can agree with the idea that if Burrow had better protection on that final play, Ramsey likely would have been beaten for the winning TD in the Super Bowl.  But the key phrase is "in the Super Bowl."  Despite all of the vilification those on your side like to heap on Ramsey, the fact is almost every team in the league was interested almost every team? I don't remember that, have a link for that? I remember 4 maybe 5 teams in trading for him, and the team that wound up trading for him was the team that won the Super Bowl Hahahahaha yeah the team that only won it because they changed the QB for someone capable, and you say this like Ramsey is the only good player in that team LMAO .  They were in no way dissuaded from trading for him, nor were they in any way dissuaded from signing him to a long term contract Why you keep bringing this up? KHAN SAID HE WAS WILLING TO MAKE HIM THE HIGHEST PAID CB IN THE LEAGUE, WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?.  After trading Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars were nowhere close to winning the Super Bowl HAHAHAHA and this is only due to the fact that we traded those 2? lolololololol.  In fact, the team was literally the furthest team away from winning the Super Bowl.  The last time the Jaguars were even close to the Super Bowl was in 2017, with a team featuring....wait for it....Jalen Ramsey and Yannick Ngakoue. Yeah because they were the stars of the team LOL Bouye was as good as Ramsey that year, we had Telvin, M. Jackson, Dareus, Poz and Calais was our best D-line player and it wasn't even close, but yeah it was only thanks to Ngkoue and Ramsey xD

I'm also not sure why you think their presence would have only made the difference in 1 game.  Out of what body cavity of yours did you pull that figure?!? Ok then show me proof we would have gone to the playoffs with those 2 on the team, I'll wait. I guess you also forgot BOTH guys were on the team on 2018 and what happened? LOL 5-11

What kills me is you take some sort of victory in not paying for players who have performed at a high level for this team, only to celebrate a record breaking class of free agent signings of players totaling over $170 million Celebrate? I said Baalke did good, that's about it, I don't remember celebrating much, you are welcome to prove me wrong though. Also none of the guys we signed were headaches like those 2 guys you love so much in guaranteed money to guys who were nowhere near as productive for their teams as Ramsey and Ngakoue were for ours.  We signed a #3 WR at best in Kirk, a #4 WR at best in Zay Jones, who failed miserably in Buffahole, a guy who was deemed a disappointment in NY for Evan Engram.  Scherff was a good signing.  Oluakun and FO were good signings.  Williams was a good signing.  But our cap, at face value, isn't as good as it might otherwise have been before all of the signings.  So you burned through all of the cap room you created by not signing Ngakoue and Ramsey for players not as good.  The team hasn't won any more games since trading them away Because those 2 are the only guys that left, and nothing else happened that could have made us a worse team right? my god .  We didn't even maximize the return from the trades, absolutely botching the 2020 draft.  What is there to show for letting them get away? Show me proof that we would be a much better team with much better talent and a record had we kept those guys

And once freaking again (starting to wonder if you have alzheimer or something) 

One idiot FAKED AN INJURY just to get his wish and HE OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WANNA STAY HERE
The other idiot thought he was the best pass rusher in the league (LOL) and thought he deserved and big fat contract when NO ONE BUT YOU AND HIM think he deserves that. He also was being a headcase and even insulted the owner. He also refused to negotiate and asked for a trade

AGAIN, THEY DIDN'T WANNA BE HERE ANYMORE!!! 

I wanted Ramsey to stay (WE ALL DID) before he started his crap, HE WASN'T GONNA SIGN A CONTRACT WITH US ANYMORE!!
Ngakoue you can sing all the praise you want but 3 facts 1.- NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE HIM A BIG FAT CONTRACT OR EVEN KEEP HIM FOR MORE THAN 1 YEAR. 2 HE IS GOD AWFUL VS THE RUN. 3 HE IS A GOOD PASS RUSHER, NOT GREAT, NOT ELITE WHICH IS WHY NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE HIM THE MONEY HE WANTS.

I am out. It's pathetic people still cry about this.

I didn't cite either Cooks or Ngakoue to say that either were superstars.  I cited them to show how completely silly it is to trash a player who has bounced around from team to team, when he's better than anyone you have at the relevant position.  But I suppose next you're going to tell me we've had more productive players than Brandin Cooks and Yannick Ngakoue over the past two years.  I mean I know you glom onto Josh Allen, though the numbers don't show the impact.

As far as the DE/OLBs being better against the run than Ngakoue, aside from that being false (Chaisson clearly is not better than Yan), the primary purpose of the edge rusher is to provide impact in the pas rush.  You sound like those guys who were propping up Reggie Williams because he was a good blocker.  Nevermind that he couldn't separate underneath or deep in a game to save his life.  What was important to them was that he could block-clearly a secondary function.  Anything to keep from admitting he was a bust.

Not once did I ever say either expressly or tacitly that Ramsey or Ngakjoue were the only good players on our team or, in Ramsey's case, the Rams.  To the contrary.  I have ALWAYS asserted the best franchises accumulate talent to find success.  There was a time where the Rams were among the worst run franchises in football.  Wanna know why?  They became a team that had constant acrimony with their star players (Dickerson, Kevin Greene, and Jerome Bettis-three future Hall of Fameers), and compounded that with piss poor drafting to try to replace those players (see aftermath of the Eric Dickerson trade, and the drafting of Lawrence Phillips to replace Jerome Bettis).  Does any of this sound familiar at all?  Any eerie parallels coming to mind?  No, I don't assert Ngakoue is a Hall of Famer, but he IS someone we should have retained, and he IS someone we have not adequately replaced some three years after the fact.

For sacks only?  See my response to flgatorsjags.

You wanted a link measuring teams' interest in trading for Ramsey?  https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...u8nan4cgdb

As far as Khan saying after all the damage was done he wanted to re-sign Ramsey to a long term deal, apparently he did not adequately convey that desire to the front office (TC, Caldwell). After that Ramsey fiasco, Khan said he wanted to be updated on contract talks in the future. Funny how every other team who drafted in the top 5 of that year signed their players to contract extensions...most of whom were given extensions by 2019.

Jared Goff...https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/02/rams-jared-goff-extension-early-cost/

Carson Wentz...https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2835079-carson-wentz-eagles-agree-to-4-year-contract-extension-through-2024-season

Joey Bosa... https://theathletic.com/1959085/2020/07/...-deserved/

Ezekiel Elliott...https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2019/09/04/source-cowboys-rb-ezekiel-elliott-ends-holdout-agrees-to-6-year-90-million-contract-extension/

With the Elliott re-signing, there was the added element of acrimony due to a holdout, and Dallas still got the deal done.  Which is the ONLY team missing from that froup?  Hmmm....who could it be?

Bouye was NOT as good as Ramsey that year.  Ramsey made 1st team all pro.  Bouye did not.  Furthermore, Ramsey and Ngakoue made their impacts on the defense felt long before Campbell, Bouye, Dareus, and Church were ever signed by the team.  His rookie year, Ramsey had Prince Amukamara opposite him.  There were no Dareus, Church or Campbell on the rosters.  Yet Ngakoue led the team in sacks as a rookie, and the defense overall ranked in the top 5 after languishing near the bottom for years.

Once again, for the hard of reading, I am not saying the team would have gone to the playoffs had they kept those two players..  But nether were part of a 1 win team during their stays here, even when playing for who we thought would be the worst coach the Jaguars would ever have in Hus Bradley.  They had something to do with winning some games.  Ramsey had a pick six against Tennessee late in his rookie season that contributed to a blowout win.  Once again, for the literacy challenged, my point has always been to accumulate and retain as many talented players as possible.  We already had guys like Poz, Telvin Smith, Ramsey and Yan on the roster.  We added Campbell, Bouye, Church and Dareus to them.  Lo and behold, we had our one winning season since 2007.  When we lost those players, either through retirement (Poz), old age (Dareus, Jackson, Campbell, Church). or from front office ineptitude (Ngakoue, Ramsey), we've had the worst stretch of football in our team's history.  I did not forget either player was on the 2018 team that collapsed.  That collapse had nothing to do with either player.  The season was progressing well early (3-1 record in first 4 games)in until the injuries started hitting on the offensive line, starting with losing Cam Robinson to a torn ACL late against the Patriots.  With Ramsey and Ngakoue, the defense finished 4th in points and 5th in yards allowed.  On that same team, the offense was 31st in scoring and 27th in yards. It's all there to see. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...x/2018.htm  But go ahead and contiue to blame Ramsey and Ngakoue for not helping when the team's failings were clearly on the offensive side of the ball.  Since then, Ramsey was eventually dealt as was Ngakoue, Campbell, and Bouye.  Telvin Smith had his meldown (speaking of someone who couldn't stop the run..and you had the gall to add him to the analysis?!?)  The defense hasn't been close to top 5 since.  Apparently you didn't remember any of this.  I will refrain from using my internet medical degree to diagnose you with Alzheimer's.  But appareently I DID forget I was dealing with someone fact averse.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Let me guess....you got this from the same source that told you Jameis Winston threw more INTs in one season than any other QB in NFL history?  The same source that told you Tebow was any good?  Maybe you'll have better luck with another position.

By the way here is a direct comparison between the two.

https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder...&request=1

If you want to compare Ngakoue's first three years to Allen's, I can do that too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...akYa00.htm

Ngakoue's three year totals were 48 games to Allen's 40.  He proved to be more durable.

Forced fumbles?  10-3 Ngakoue.

INTs?  1-1.  Push.

TFL?  29-25.  Edge:  Ngakoue

FR:  2-0 Ngakoue

Tackles 128-78:  Edge Allen

Solo Tackles:  84-69 Edge:  Allen

Sacks:  29.5=20  Edge:  Ngakoue

The one thing Allen is better at is stopping the run.  He still hasn't made anywhere near the # of impact plays Ngakoue did in his first three seasons, which is the main reason to keep Ngakoue.  But if you're happy with fewer impact plays from your defense...as I said..you got the team you deserved and wanted the past two seasons.

Winston threw more Ints than anyone in 30 years, lol.  One [BLEEP] might stink worse than the other lmao.  One think you probably didn't know is that Yawn had waaaayyyyyyy more talent on those Jags teams than Allen has ever had.   If you want to talk about stats on a fair playing field there isn't a better way then to compare the 1 year they were both on the same team which was Allen's rookie year.  Yawn had 8 sacks while Allen had 10.5.  Not to mention Allen isn't a liability in any aspect while Yawn is the worst at his position in 1, Allen can also drop in coverage and confuse defenses and he is good at that something Yawn isn't cable of.  Yawn has had a couple good games when he got a sack strip but he has never dominated a game like Allen did last year in the Buff game.  The Colts and Dolphins game Allen was pretty dominant as well regardless what a stat sheet says.  We will see what Allen can do this year with finally some talent around him.

---

LOL, this is painful for you isn't it?  The truth hurts lmao.  The grades aren't even close.  It's good to know we won't have the liability on the end.


https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/yannick-ngakoue/10703

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/josh-allen/50235

I already pointed out Ramsey and Ngakoue come to a defense that ranked 31st out of 32nd in scoring in 2015 and those two helped bring the defense up to 5th their rookie years. Yan STILL led the team in sacks without the talent of the 2017 team around him.  His rookie year without all of that surrounding talent, he put up more sacks than Josh Allen did in ANY season where HE didn't have all of that talent.

PFF?!?  Seriously?

This is the same group that gave Derek Cox a higher grade than Darelle Revis.  God.  How many Gene Smith acolytes ran with that one?!?

PFF?!?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Winston threw more Ints than anyone in 30 years, lol.  One [BLEEP] might stink worse than the other lmao.  One think you probably didn't know is that Yawn had waaaayyyyyyy more talent on those Jags teams than Allen has ever had.   If you want to talk about stats on a fair playing field there isn't a better way then to compare the 1 year they were both on the same team which was Allen's rookie year.  Yawn had 8 sacks while Allen had 10.5.  Not to mention Allen isn't a liability in any aspect while Yawn is the worst at his position in 1, Allen can also drop in coverage and confuse defenses and he is good at that something Yawn isn't cable of.  Yawn has had a couple good games when he got a sack strip but he has never dominated a game like Allen did last year in the Buff game.  The Colts and Dolphins game Allen was pretty dominant as well regardless what a stat sheet says.  We will see what Allen can do this year with finally some talent around him.

---

LOL, this is painful for you isn't it?  The truth hurts lmao.  The grades aren't even close.  It's good to know we won't have the liability on the end.


https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/yannick-ngakoue/10703

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/josh-allen/50235

I already pointed out Ramsey and Ngakoue come to a defense that ranked 31st out of 32nd in scoring in 2015 and those two helped bring the defense up to 5th their rookie years. Yan STILL led the team in sacks without the talent of the 2017 team around him.  His rookie year without all of that surrounding talent, he put up more sacks than Josh Allen did in ANY season where HE didn't have all of that talent.

PFF?!?  Seriously?

This is the same group that gave Derek Cox a higher grade than Darelle Revis.  God.  How many Gene Smith acolytes ran with that one?!?

PFF?!?

Now you are talking out your [BLEEP] and trying to make [BLEEP] up.  Josh Allen has that rookie sack record.  Yes pff, the site that grades for a living.  They have improved a ton since Cox was on the Jags.  Cox was damn good that year though.  The one year Yawn and Allen played together Allen had more sacks. The 32 GMs don't think Yawn is worth what you think he is and that says it all.  You are probably the only one on this planet that thinks higher of Yawn than he does of himself lmao.  I'm just thankful we don't have that 20 mil liability like you wish we have.

---

I already pointed out Ramsey and Ngakoue come to a defense that ranked 31st out of 32nd in scoring in 2015 and those two helped bring the defense up to 5th their rookie years. Yan STILL led the team in sacks without the talent of the 2017 team around him.  His rookie year without all of that surrounding talent, he put up more sacks than Josh Allen did in ANY season where HE didn't have all of that talent.

PFF?!?  Seriously?

This is the same group that gave Derek Cox a higher grade than Darelle Revis.  God.  How many Gene Smith acolytes ran with that one?!?

PFF?!?

Now you are talking out your [BLEEP] and trying to make [BLEEP] up.  Josh Allen has that rookie sack record.  Yes pff, the site that grades for a living.  They have improved a ton since Cox was on the Jags.  Cox was damn good that year though.  The one year Yawn and Allen played together Allen had more sacks. The 32 GMs don't think Yawn is worth what you think he is and that says it all.  You are probably the only one on this planet that thinks higher of Yawn than he does of himself lmao.  I'm just thankful we don't have that 20 mil liability like you wish we have.

Do I need sock puppets to explain this to you?

Let me try again.

Josh Allen's rookie year, he finished with 10.5 sacks.  Outstanding wor by Allen, no denying that.  However, he had talented players taking attention away from him, including Calais Campbell and Yannick Ngakoue.

Are you with me so far?

In the two years he has played without Campbell, Ngakoue, et al taking attention away from him, his BEST sack total season was 7.5 sacks.

Still with me?

That 7.5 sack total is LESS than Ngakoue's 8 sacks he had as a rookie in 2016, which were amassed without Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus, et al.

That 7.5 sack total is less than Ngakoue's 10 sacks he amassed for the Raiders last year without Calais Campbell, Dareus, etc.

That 7.5 sack total was less than Ngakoue's combined sack total when he played for the Vikings (without Calais Campbell and Marcell Dareus) and Baltimore (who had Campbell, but was clearly past his prime by that point).

What I am saying is Ngakoue's history without Campbell, Dareus, et al shows more productivity than Allen's numbers without Campbell, Ngakoue, et al.

Got it now?

Sadly, you are one of a few just on this board who think less productive defenders are better than more productive defenders...and teams are better off giving away key contributors than retaining them and building around them.

The numbers speak for themselves.  With Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars defense was top 5 for three straight years.  Without Ramsey and Ngakoue and with Allen, the defense was not CLOSE to that.  With Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars showed a dramatic upward trajectory at least one year.  Without Ngakoue and Ramsey and with Allen?  Not at all.  In fact, they finished with the league's worst record the last two seasons-which coincide with the two seasons the Jaguars have played without Ramsey and Ngakoue.

Refute ANYTHING I've said in that closing paragraph.  I DARE you.  Deny ANY of the facts I've laid out.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

2017 we had Bortles guys!!! We almost reach the SB with him, What have we done with Trevor??? Nothing!!! Bring back Bortles and Fournette, cut Trevor and J. Robinson. While we are at it bring back Hurns! Church and Gipson 2017 guys! 2017!!! Fournette won A SB, what has Robinson done? What has Etienne done?? Cut them!!! Bring back Bouye too and Malik Jackson 2017!!

Compare Stats between Trevor best season VS Bortles best season!! 35 TDs with Bortles bring him back Now!!!

Bring back Todd Wash, remember 2017?? Our defense has been crap without him!!

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

2017 we had Bortles guys!!! We almost reach the SB with him, What have we done with Trevor??? Nothing!!! Bring back Bortles and Fournette, cut Trevor and J. Robinson. While we are at it bring back Hurns! Church and Gipson 2017 guys! 2017!!! Fournette won A SB, what has Robinson done? What has Etienne done?? Cut them!!! Bring back Bouye too and Malik Jackson 2017!!

Compare Stats between Trevor best season VS Bortles best season!! 35 TDs with Bortles bring him back Now!!!

Bring back Todd Wash, remember 2017?? Our defense has been crap without him!!

How about...you know...we have Trevor Lawrence.  He's a talented player who has yet to reach his prime.  Why throw HIM out because the rest of the team is bad?  Why not, I dunno...add some talent around him to enable him and the team to flourish?

Naah.  We'd rather take the minimalist approach to football.

Talent?!?  Pssshhhh.  Who needs it?  All wee need is blind compliance!

You say guys like Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw once asked to be traded?!? John Riggins once held out an entire season om a contract dispute?!?  You mean those teams managed to keep all of those players?  Forget those examples.  Players aren't allowed to have minds of their own.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Now you are talking out your [BLEEP] and trying to make [BLEEP] up.  Josh Allen has that rookie sack record.  Yes pff, the site that grades for a living.  They have improved a ton since Cox was on the Jags.  Cox was damn good that year though.  The one year Yawn and Allen played together Allen had more sacks. The 32 GMs don't think Yawn is worth what you think he is and that says it all.  You are probably the only one on this planet that thinks higher of Yawn than he does of himself lmao.  I'm just thankful we don't have that 20 mil liability like you wish we have.

Do I need sock puppets to explain this to you?

Let me try again.

Josh Allen's rookie year, he finished with 10.5 sacks.  Outstanding wor by Allen, no denying that.  However, he had talented players taking attention away from him, including Calais Campbell and Yannick Ngakoue.

Are you with me so far?

In the two years he has played without Campbell, Ngakoue, et al taking attention away from him, his BEST sack total season was 7.5 sacks.

Still with me?

That 7.5 sack total is LESS than Ngakoue's 8 sacks he had as a rookie in 2016, which were amassed without Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus, et al.

That 7.5 sack total is less than Ngakoue's 10 sacks he amassed for the Raiders last year without Calais Campbell, Dareus, etc.

That 7.5 sack total was less than Ngakoue's combined sack total when he played for the Vikings (without Calais Campbell and Marcell Dareus) and Baltimore (who had Campbell, but was clearly past his prime by that point).

What I am saying is Ngakoue's history without Campbell, Dareus, et al shows more productivity than Allen's numbers without Campbell, Ngakoue, et al.

Got it now?

Sadly, you are one of a few just on this board who think less productive defenders are better than more productive defenders...and teams are better off giving away key contributors than retaining them and building around them.

The numbers speak for themselves.  With Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars defense was top 5 for three straight years.  Without Ramsey and Ngakoue and with Allen, the defense was not CLOSE to that.  With Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars showed a dramatic upward trajectory at least one year.  Without Ngakoue and Ramsey and with Allen?  Not at all.  In fact, they finished with the league's worst record the last two seasons-which coincide with the two seasons the Jaguars have played without Ramsey and Ngakoue.

Refute ANYTHING I've said in that closing paragraph.  I DARE you.  Deny ANY of the facts I've laid out.

In 2016 we had a true leader on D in Poz, Telvin, and just signed Jackson to a huge contract, that D was much more talented than any of these Ds Allen has been on. Allen and Yawn played together on the same team in 2019 and Allen had more sacks, that's all you need to know.  You think Robert Quinn is better than Myles Garrett because Quinn had more sacks last year, lmao.  
It's comical you act like all we lost and had was Yawn and Ms Ramsey lol, we also lost our best player in Calais, All Pro in Telvin, All Pro Bouye who started to get hurt, Gipson, Jackson etc.  We lost much more than just Those 2.  All those players where a huge part when we made our run.  It's way too easy to refute that last paragraph when you always leave out the most important facts

---

I will say this, I would take our CB group over the Rams CB group and I would take our edge group over the Colts edge group.

---

2017 we had Bortles guys!!! We almost reach the SB with him, What have we done with Trevor??? Nothing!!! Bring back Bortles and Fournette, cut Trevor and J. Robinson. While we are at it bring back Hurns! Church and Gipson 2017 guys! 2017!!! Fournette won A SB, what has Robinson done? What has Etienne done?? Cut them!!! Bring back Bouye too and Malik Jackson 2017!!

Compare Stats between Trevor best season VS Bortles best season!! 35 TDs with Bortles bring him back Now!!!

Bring back Todd Wash, remember 2017?? Our defense has been crap without him!!

How about...you know...we have Trevor Lawrence.  He's a talented player who has yet to reach his prime.  Why throw HIM out because the rest of the team is bad?  Why not, I dunno...add some talent around him to enable him and the team to flourish?

Naah.  We'd rather take the minimalist approach to football.

Talent?!?  Pssshhhh.  Who needs it?  All wee need is blind compliance!

You say guys like Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw once asked to be traded?!? John Riggins once held out an entire season om a contract dispute?!?  You mean those teams managed to keep all of those players?  Forget those examples.  Players aren't allowed to have minds of their own.

Naw, Trev isn't a cry baby and he isn't faking any injury.  He's more of a man than that, Trevor also wants to be here, Yawn and Ms. Ramsey didn't.  Huge difference, we were going to give Yawn much more than what he was worth and we were going to make the corner the highest paid in the league but his little feelings got hurt because his skin his to thin.  It's good to have guys with high character on top of being a good football player.

---

Do I need sock puppets to explain this to you?

Let me try again.

Josh Allen's rookie year, he finished with 10.5 sacks.  Outstanding wor by Allen, no denying that.  However, he had talented players taking attention away from him, including Calais Campbell and Yannick Ngakoue.

Are you with me so far?

In the two years he has played without Campbell, Ngakoue, et al taking attention away from him, his BEST sack total season was 7.5 sacks.

Still with me?

That 7.5 sack total is LESS than Ngakoue's 8 sacks he had as a rookie in 2016, which were amassed without Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus, et al.

That 7.5 sack total is less than Ngakoue's 10 sacks he amassed for the Raiders last year without Calais Campbell, Dareus, etc.

That 7.5 sack total was less than Ngakoue's combined sack total when he played for the Vikings (without Calais Campbell and Marcell Dareus) and Baltimore (who had Campbell, but was clearly past his prime by that point).

What I am saying is Ngakoue's history without Campbell, Dareus, et al shows more productivity than Allen's numbers without Campbell, Ngakoue, et al.

Got it now?

Sadly, you are one of a few just on this board who think less productive defenders are better than more productive defenders...and teams are better off giving away key contributors than retaining them and building around them.

The numbers speak for themselves.  With Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars defense was top 5 for three straight years.  Without Ramsey and Ngakoue and with Allen, the defense was not CLOSE to that.  With Ramsey and Ngakoue, the Jaguars showed a dramatic upward trajectory at least one year.  Without Ngakoue and Ramsey and with Allen?  Not at all.  In fact, they finished with the league's worst record the last two seasons-which coincide with the two seasons the Jaguars have played without Ramsey and Ngakoue.

Refute ANYTHING I've said in that closing paragraph.  I DARE you.  Deny ANY of the facts I've laid out.

In 2016 we had a true leader on D in Poz, Telvin, and just signed Jackson to a huge contract, that D was much more talented than any of these Ds Allen has been on. Allen and Yawn played together on the same team in 2019 and Allen had more sacks, that's all you need to know.  You think Robert Quinn is better than Myles Garrett because Quinn had more sacks last year, lmao.  
It's comical you act like all we lost and had was Yawn and Ms Ramsey lol, we also lost our best player in Calais, All Pro in Telvin, All Pro Bouye who started to get hurt, Gipson, Jackson etc.  We lost much more than just Those 2.  All those players where a huge part when we made our run.  It's way to easy to refute that last paragraph when you always leave out the most important facts

In 2016 the Jaguars were not a heavy blitzing team.

As a 4-3 scheme, the Jaguars LBs are more apt to drop into coverage.

They weren't habitual pass rushers that offensive schemes had to worry about blocking.  While they were key contributors to the defense, within the context of this conversation (DL production with and without surrounding help), their inclusion in this would not be appropriate.

But since you included them, both Telvin Smith and Poz were on the team and had the same attributes back in 2014 and 2015...before Ramsey and Ngakoue arrived on the team in 2016.  Both were excellent players for us.

But here were the Jaguars defensive rankings those years.

2014: 26th in points allowed and 25th in yards.
2015:  31st in points allowed and 24th in yards.

Ramsey and Ngakoue were drafted in 2016.
in 2016 They were 25th in scoring defense and 6th in yards allowed.  Notice the jumps in performance?  6 rankings higher in scoring, and 6th in yardage, up from 25th and 24th?  That was with them as rookies, and before Campbell and Bouye and Dareus were added.

There is no way you can avoid the fact Ngakoue and Ramsey were integral parts of the defense that improved between 2026-2018.

I don't act as if Ngakoue and Ramswey were the only reasons why the defense played well during that time.  To the contrary, over the years, I have lauded Campbell, Dareus, Jackson, Telvin Smith, Poz, Bouye, Church and Gipson for their play, in addition to Ramsey and Ngakoue.  But unlike those other guys, their departures were avoidable and ultimately bad for the team.  With Campbell's age and his declining play, eventually it made sense to get rid of him when we did.  Poz retired.  Again, an unavoidable departure.  Telvin Smith had his meltdown/stepped away...after the team actually extended him.  Again, that was unavoidable.  Church's and Bouye's play fell off dramatically.  They needed to go.  But Ramsey and Ngakoue were well inside their primes.  Both remained productive players, until the team pissed them off with their reluctance to sign either player.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

How about...you know...we have Trevor Lawrence.  He's a talented player who has yet to reach his prime.  Why throw HIM out because the rest of the team is bad?  Why not, I dunno...add some talent around him to enable him and the team to flourish?

Naah.  We'd rather take the minimalist approach to football.

Talent?!?  Pssshhhh.  Who needs it?  All wee need is blind compliance!

You say guys like Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw once asked to be traded?!? John Riggins once held out an entire season om a contract dispute?!?  You mean those teams managed to keep all of those players?  Forget those examples.  Players aren't allowed to have minds of their own.

Naw, Trev isn't a cry baby and he isn't faking any injury.  He's more of a man than that, Trevor also wants to be here, Yawn and Ms. Ramsey didn't.  Huge difference, we were going to give Yawn much more than what he was worth and we were going to make the corner the highest paid in the league but his little feelings got hurt because his skin his to thin.  It's good to have guys with high character on top of being a good football player.

Trevor Lawrence has played all of one year.  While I don't think he would ever be deemed a malcontent, you have no idea how contract negotiations will unfold.  Typically, if QBs play well, they get what they want without pushback from fans or the team.  Given this team's history of screw ups, Lawrence's mind could change if the neolithic incompetence continues with this organization.  Don't take Lawrence's presence here for granted.  Other positional players get pushback for having the temerity to be hard negotiators or stand on principle about their worth. wholly irrespective of how productive they have been.  Ngakoue wasn't deemed a malcontent by anyone until the difficulty in contract negotiations became public.  MJD wasn't considered a malcontent until his contract negotiations became public, and he led the league in rushing.  DD was considered an upstanding person/player until he kept being franchised.  Brackens was trashed when he had a contract stalemate with the team and he's the team's all time leading sacker.

But continue to push for the team to refuse to pay productive players (instead of guys like Kirk and Zay Jones).  It's gotten us DAL for two straight years now.  Not just in the division...but in the league!  Congrats!

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

In 2016 we had a true leader on D in Poz, Telvin, and just signed Jackson to a huge contract, that D was much more talented than any of these Ds Allen has been on. Allen and Yawn played together on the same team in 2019 and Allen had more sacks, that's all you need to know.  You think Robert Quinn is better than Myles Garrett because Quinn had more sacks last year, lmao.  
It's comical you act like all we lost and had was Yawn and Ms Ramsey lol, we also lost our best player in Calais, All Pro in Telvin, All Pro Bouye who started to get hurt, Gipson, Jackson etc.  We lost much more than just Those 2.  All those players where a huge part when we made our run.  It's way to easy to refute that last paragraph when you always leave out the most important facts

In 2016 the Jaguars were not a heavy blitzing team.

As a 4-3 scheme, the Jaguars LBs are more apt to drop into coverage.

They weren't habitual pass rushers that offensive schemes had to worry about blocking.  While they were key contributors to the defense, within the context of this conversation (DL production with and without surrounding help), their inclusion in this would not be appropriate.

But since you included them, both Telvin Smith and Poz were on the team and had the same attributes back in 2014 and 2015...before Ramsey and Ngakoue arrived on the team in 2016.  Both were excellent players for us.

But here were the Jaguars defensive rankings those years.

2014: 26th in points allowed and 25th in yards.
2015:  31st in points allowed and 24th in yards.

Ramsey and Ngakoue were drafted in 2016.
in 2016 They were 25th in scoring defense and 6th in yards allowed.  Notice the jumps in performance?  6 rankings higher in scoring, and 6th in yardage, up from 25th and 24th?  That was with them as rookies, and before Campbell and Bouye and Dareus were added.

There is no way you can avoid the fact Ngakoue and Ramsey were integral parts of the defense that improved between 2026-2018.

I don't act as if Ngakoue and Ramswey were the only reasons why the defense played well during that time.  To the contrary, over the years, I have lauded Campbell, Dareus, Jackson, Telvin Smith, Poz, Bouye, Church and Gipson for their play, in addition to Ramsey and Ngakoue.  But unlike those other guys, their departures were avoidable and ultimately bad for the team.  With Campbell's age and his declining play, eventually it made sense to get rid of him when we did.  Poz retired.  Again, an unavoidable departure.  Telvin Smith had his meltdown/stepped away...after the team actually extended him.  Again, that was unavoidable.  Church's and Bouye's play fell off dramatically.  They needed to go.  But Ramsey and Ngakoue were well inside their primes.  Both remained productive players, until the team pissed them off with their reluctance to sign either player.

---

"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

In 2016 the Jaguars were not a heavy blitzing team.

As a 4-3 scheme, the Jaguars LBs are more apt to drop into coverage.

They weren't habitual pass rushers that offensive schemes had to worry about blocking.  While they were key contributors to the defense, within the context of this conversation (DL production with and without surrounding help), their inclusion in this would not be appropriate.

But since you included them, both Telvin Smith and Poz were on the team and had the same attributes back in 2014 and 2015...before Ramsey and Ngakoue arrived on the team in 2016.  Both were excellent players for us.

But here were the Jaguars defensive rankings those years.

2014: 26th in points allowed and 25th in yards.
2015:  31st in points allowed and 24th in yards.

Ramsey and Ngakoue were drafted in 2016.
in 2016 They were 25th in scoring defense and 6th in yards allowed.  Notice the jumps in performance?  6 rankings higher in scoring, and 6th in yardage, up from 25th and 24th?  That was with them as rookies, and before Campbell and Bouye and Dareus were added.

There is no way you can avoid the fact Ngakoue and Ramsey were integral parts of the defense that improved between 2026-2018.

I don't act as if Ngakoue and Ramswey were the only reasons why the defense played well during that time.  To the contrary, over the years, I have lauded Campbell, Dareus, Jackson, Telvin Smith, Poz, Bouye, Church and Gipson for their play, in addition to Ramsey and Ngakoue.  But unlike those other guys, their departures were avoidable and ultimately bad for the team.  With Campbell's age and his declining play, eventually it made sense to get rid of him when we did.  Poz retired.  Again, an unavoidable departure.  Telvin Smith had his meltdown/stepped away...after the team actually extended him.  Again, that was unavoidable.  Church's and Bouye's play fell off dramatically.  They needed to go.  But Ramsey and Ngakoue were well inside their primes.  Both remained productive players, until the team pissed them off with their reluctance to sign either player.

Not trashing key contributors because I dislike their personalities is NOT the same as restricting kudos to them.

Serious question:  Have the Jaguars had enough pro bowl performances over the years to forget or completely disregard the contributions of Ngakoue and Ramsey-both of whom made the pro bowl?

The Jaguars have drafted all of two (2) Pro Bowlers at DE in our roughly 28 years of existencce. Tony Brackens in 1996 and Ngakoue in 2016-some 20 years later. But Jaguars fans hated both guys. I just hope we don't have to wait another 20 years before we manage to draft another Pro Bowl edge rusher, though I don't know why they'd ever want to play for us. Fans here hate productive defenders and the team historically does not shell out money for them.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Not trashing key contributors because I dislike their personalities is NOT the same as restricting kudos to them.

Serious question:  Have the Jaguars had enough pro bowl performances over the years to forget or completely disregard the contributions of Ngakoue and Ramsey-both of whom made the pro bowl?

The Jaguars have drafted all of two (2) Pro Bowlers at DE in our roughly 28 years of existencce.  Tony Brackens in 1996 and Ngakoue in 2016-some 20 years later.  But Jaguars fans hated both guys.  I just hope we don't have to wait another 20 years before we manage to draft another Pro Bowl edge rusher, though I don't know why they'd ever want to play for us.  Fans here hate productive defenders and the team historically does not shell out money for them.

Pro Bowls are a sign of teams that consistently win or play in big markets. In either case, they are popularity contests.

Along this same line, we've only drafted one Pro Bowl QB in franchise history too, and he wasn't well-liked, either. @Maybe there's a pattern among our fans....@

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Not trashing key contributors because I dislike their personalities is NOT the same as restricting kudos to them.

Serious question:  Have the Jaguars had enough pro bowl performances over the years to forget or completely disregard the contributions of Ngakoue and Ramsey-both of whom made the pro bowl?

The Jaguars have drafted all of two (2) Pro Bowlers at DE in our roughly 28 years of existencce.  Tony Brackens in 1996 and Ngakoue in 2016-some 20 years later.  But Jaguars fans hated both guys.  I just hope we don't have to wait another 20 years before we manage to draft another Pro Bowl edge rusher, though I don't know why they'd ever want to play for us.  Fans here hate productive defenders and the team historically does not shell out money for them.

Josh Allen don't count?  I haven't seen anyone on here say they hate Yawn or Brackens.  Most just say Yawn wasn't worth 20 mil and is the worst at his position in run defense/ a huge liability.  When he was a FA a couple years ago his market wasn't even that big.  Why is Yawn nothing getting a huge contract and and making only 13 mil per year being he is still young if he is as good as you think he is?  There is a reason teams wasn't lining up to sign him and he keeps getting traded.

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