(06-12-2022, 04:20 PM)Bullseye Wrote:

(06-12-2022, 07:44 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: In 2016 we had a true leader on D in Poz, Telvin, and just signed Jackson to a huge contract, that D was much more talented than any of these Ds Allen has been on. Allen and Yawn played together on the same team in 2019 and Allen had more sacks, that's all you need to know.  You think Robert Quinn is better than Myles Garrett because Quinn had more sacks last year, lmao.  
It's comical you act like all we lost and had was Yawn and Ms Ramsey lol, we also lost our best player in Calais, All Pro in Telvin, All Pro Bouye who started to get hurt, Gipson, Jackson etc.  We lost much more than just Those 2.  All those players where a huge part when we made our run.  It's way to easy to refute that last paragraph when you always leave out the most important facts

In 2016 the Jaguars were not a heavy blitzing team.

As a 4-3 scheme, the Jaguars LBs are more apt to drop into coverage.

They weren't habitual pass rushers that offensive schemes had to worry about blocking.  While they were key contributors to the defense, within the context of this conversation (DL production with and without surrounding help), their inclusion in this would not be appropriate.

But since you included them, both Telvin Smith and Poz were on the team and had the same attributes back in 2014 and 2015...before Ramsey and Ngakoue arrived on the team in 2016.  Both were excellent players for us.

But here were the Jaguars defensive rankings those years.

2014: 26th in points allowed and 25th in yards.
2015:  31st in points allowed and 24th in yards.

Ramsey and Ngakoue were drafted in 2016.
in 2016 They were 25th in scoring defense and 6th in yards allowed.  Notice the jumps in performance?  6 rankings higher in scoring, and 6th in yardage, up from 25th and 24th?  That was with them as rookies, and before Campbell and Bouye and Dareus were added.

There is no way you can avoid the fact Ngakoue and Ramsey were integral parts of the defense that improved between 2026-2018.

I don't act as if Ngakoue and Ramswey were the only reasons why the defense played well during that time.  To the contrary, over the years, I have lauded Campbell, Dareus, Jackson, Telvin Smith, Poz, Bouye, Church and Gipson for their play, in addition to Ramsey and Ngakoue.  But unlike those other guys, their departures were avoidable and ultimately bad for the team.  With Campbell's age and his declining play, eventually it made sense to get rid of him when we did.  Poz retired.  Again, an unavoidable departure.  Telvin Smith had his meltdown/stepped away...after the team actually extended him.  Again, that was unavoidable.  Church's and Bouye's play fell off dramatically.  They needed to go.  But Ramsey and Ngakoue were well inside their primes.  Both remained productive players, until the team pissed them off with their reluctance to sign either player.