I disagree. With the assessment regarding Pederson. Lawrence turning the football over seven times in two games has nothing to do with Pederson.

The running calls are optional in this offense as well. I think after they got off to a 2 - 1 start and played sloppy in Philadelphia I personally think Pederson was giving Lawrence the opportunity to bounce back yesterday and he failed to do so.

The overthrows are frustrating. The crucial mistakes in the redzone, twice now in a row where, in fairness? Lawrence was driving in both games, Pederson is making the right calls, he's moving him left, he's moving him right and then Lawrence throws two boneheaded interceptions.

Also, Pederson has stated it plainly that he believes in passing it to score and running it to win. If Lawrence scores there in the 2nd half opening drive, and they go up 13 - 6? He's potentially going to run the football more.

I have more confidence in Pederson and his staff over Lawrence at the moment. The turnovers were an issue last year for him. The last two weeks are starting to show that he's not protecting the football.

Keep in mind. Lawrence threw the football a lot in the opener and a lot on the road in L.A. He was ascending two weeks in a row. Pederson is going to keep giving him the opportunities. They had 422 yards of total offense yesterday. They just didn't get it done in the redzone and turned it over in the endzone.

Now, going on the road this Sunday? You may very well see Pederson shift to running the ball more often and early and taking the ball out of Lawrence's hands in crucial situations. It's fair. It's five games in.

First week? Everybody got a pass.

Second week? Lawrence was great.

Third week? Lawrence was greater.

Fourth week? Bad weather. Ball put on the ground too much against the best team in football on the road. Maybe it was a fluke?

Yesterday? Great weather. Great defense. Bad QB play in scoring opportunities and accuracy issues with one really bad decision by Walker yesterday cost you the game.

It's a wash. Pederson now has some opportunities and adjustments to make.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Pederson could be working towards getting Trevor up to pace and in the right direction while still winning these games. 

Take what the defense gives you. The majority of defenses this year has allowed our RB's the opportunity to have huge games and Pederson has done everything he can to avoid it. 
I sure hope Trevor has some really thick skin or he figures out his problems because he wont get any better if hes down on himself from these last 2 games. 

Trevor being young is something everyone is leaning on, about how he needs time because hes young. Well apparently you need to let Pederson in on this info because hes got him out here slinging the ball like Brett Favre. 

Maybe I'm not seeing the picture how he sees it, but what I can see is a team that very well could of won all of its games so far.

While Doug is light years ahead of the last guy regarding putting Lawrence in a good situation and utilizing our backs - it still comes down to his pass/run philosophy. 

He firmly believes that success with the pass is what is making our effective run game so effective. So he's going to keep throwing it in situations where more traditionally thinking fans would run it.
 Instead of going back to the well with run after run, he believes he needs to get back to a few completions in order to sustain the run game's effectiveness. 

There's definitely some real logic in there, but I would rather stick with what is working on the ground until it actually stops working - ESPECIALLY the the young QB is clearly having a bad day.

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Hahahah

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS! He's a Jets fan coming on the Jags message board!

Remember when there was the one guy who said Bortles was playing bad on purpose so he could force a trade to the Jets and be elite? Or some [BLEEP] like that? hahahaha

I can't remember who it was but we had someone telling us over and over that AJ McCarron was the next Brady and the answer to all our problems!

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Pederson could be working towards getting Trevor up to pace and in the right direction while still winning these games. 

Take what the defense gives you. The majority of defenses this year has allowed our RB's the opportunity to have huge games and Pederson has done everything he can to avoid it. 
I sure hope Trevor has some really thick skin or he figures out his problems because he wont get any better if hes down on himself from these last 2 games. 

Trevor being young is something everyone is leaning on, about how he needs time because hes young. Well apparently you need to let Pederson in on this info because hes got him out here slinging the ball like Brett Favre. 

Maybe I'm not seeing the picture how he sees it, but what I can see is a team that very well could of won all of its games so far.

While Doug is light years ahead of the last guy regarding putting Lawrence in a good situation and utilizing our backs - it still comes down to his pass/run philosophy. 

He firmly believes that success with the pass is what is making our effective run game so effective. So he's going to keep throwing it in situations where more traditionally thinking fans would run it.
 Instead of going back to the well with run after run, he believes he needs to get back to a few completions in order to sustain the run game's effectiveness. 

There's definitely some real logic in there, but I would rather stick with what is working on the ground until it actually stops working - ESPECIALLY the the young QB is clearly having a bad day.

The Jags were moving the ball yesterday. It's the Redzone that's the issue at the moment.

20 to 20. Jags are money.
Redzone. Game blown.

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He's 22 and this is essentially his rookie year. He's had a couple of pretty good games and 3 pretty bad ones. I'm still inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt but he's got to show he can get past the bad decisions and improve his accuracy. Everything else will come in time, but if you don't have those two, you're destined for the bench.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

I have some optimism but its beginning to fade. Year 3 is the year for him, still hasn't had that IT moment in the NFL. No down 4, drive down and score 6 moment or a 4/5 TD game. Its feast or famine with Trevor, hes either blowing the other team out and having a solid game or it's close and he is playing terribly. He has all the tools, he just needs the mental side worked out. Hoping he figures it out this year.

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Remember when there was the one guy who said Bortles was playing bad on purpose so he could force a trade to the Jets and be elite? Or some [BLEEP] like that? hahahaha

Wasn't that the same knucklehead who said his Dad was George O'Leary's realtor or some stupid [BLEEP] like that?

Ha! Yeah it was something like that

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Honestly, this isn't TLaw's rookie year, but personally, I consider it his rookie year. Dude was treated like a second rate QB with Urban, didn't even get the first team reps when it counted the most.

Urban almost destroyed TLaw, imo.. And I have 100% faith that Pederson will make it right. Pederson knows what his QB needs to be successful and he's already shown major improvements over Urbs "coaching"..

I think people are forgetting just how bad last year was for Lawrence. First game at Houston they had him throw nearly 50 times, the D was terrible early on so often found ourselves down by double digits in the first Q so started going pass heavy early. Meyer never used Robinson effectively as Hyde was his guy and I think Meyer took Lawrence two steps back if anything. Like you say he wasn't even taking all first team reps in preseason yet was Week 1 starter.

I certainly see this as Lawrence's first real year as a QB and actually learning how to be an NFL QB. He got none of that last year. And its Week 5! Still a lot of season left to play and improve and the coaches are learning what this rosters strengths and weakness are, not just Lawrence's.

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Honestly, this isn't TLaw's rookie year, but personally, I consider it his rookie year. Dude was treated like a second rate QB with Urban, didn't even get the first team reps when it counted the most.

Urban almost destroyed TLaw, imo.. And I have 100% faith that Pederson will make it right. Pederson knows what his QB needs to be successful and he's already shown major improvements over Urbs "coaching"..

I think people are forgetting just how bad last year was for Lawrence. First game at Houston they had him throw nearly 50 times, the D was terrible early on so often found ourselves down by double digits in the first Q so started going pass heavy early. Meyer never used Robinson effectively as Hyde was his guy and I think Meyer took Lawrence two steps back if anything. Like you say he wasn't even taking all first team reps in preseason yet was Week 1 starter.

I certainly see this as Lawrence's first real year as a QB and actually learning how to be an NFL QB. He got none of that last year. And its Week 5! Still a lot of season left to play and improve and the coaches are learning what this rosters strengths and weakness are, not just Lawrence's.

Bingo..

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Honestly, this isn't TLaw's rookie year, but personally, I consider it his rookie year. Dude was treated like a second rate QB with Urban, didn't even get the first team reps when it counted the most.

Urban almost destroyed TLaw, imo.. And I have 100% faith that Pederson will make it right. Pederson knows what his QB needs to be successful and he's already shown major improvements over Urbs "coaching"..

I think people are forgetting just how bad last year was for Lawrence. First game at Houston they had him throw nearly 50 times, the D was terrible early on so often found ourselves down by double digits in the first Q so started going pass heavy early. Meyer never used Robinson effectively as Hyde was his guy and I think Meyer took Lawrence two steps back if anything. Like you say he wasn't even taking all first team reps in preseason yet was Week 1 starter.

I certainly see this as Lawrence's first real year as a QB and actually learning how to be an NFL QB. He got none of that last year. And its Week 5! Still a lot of season left to play and improve and the coaches are learning what this rosters strengths and weakness are, not just Lawrence's.

I've been screaming this all offseason. Trevor regressed under the Urban Blight. Not only did Pederson have to undo what happened there, he then has to start developing him properly. He's on the right path.

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I think people are forgetting just how bad last year was for Lawrence. First game at Houston they had him throw nearly 50 times, the D was terrible early on so often found ourselves down by double digits in the first Q so started going pass heavy early. Meyer never used Robinson effectively as Hyde was his guy and I think Meyer took Lawrence two steps back if anything. Like you say he wasn't even taking all first team reps in preseason yet was Week 1 starter.

I certainly see this as Lawrence's first real year as a QB and actually learning how to be an NFL QB. He got none of that last year. And its Week 5! Still a lot of season left to play and improve and the coaches are learning what this rosters strengths and weakness are, not just Lawrence's.

I've been screaming this all offseason. Trevor regressed under the Urban Blight. Not only did Pederson have to undo what happened there, he then has to start developing him properly. He's on the right path.

So basically you're saying that everything he does wrong is due to Meyer corrupting him last year, and all that has to be undone. So, are accuracy issues mostly talent or mostly coaching?

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

I've been screaming this all offseason. Trevor regressed under the Urban Blight. Not only did Pederson have to undo what happened there, he then has to start developing him properly. He's on the right path.

So basically you're saying that everything he does wrong is due to Meyer corrupting him last year, and all that has to be undone.  So, are accuracy issues mostly talent or mostly coaching?

Meyer treated TLaw like his diamond in the rough.. He didn't need any preseason reps. He didn't need practice games. He was ready from day one..

TLaw's games proved that. The run got totally abandoned and I'm surprised Trevor didn't need Tommy John after all the pass attempts. Urbs was coaching college football at the pro level, and it showed.

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I've been screaming this all offseason. Trevor regressed under the Urban Blight. Not only did Pederson have to undo what happened there, he then has to start developing him properly. He's on the right path.

So basically you're saying that everything he does wrong is due to Meyer corrupting him last year, and all that has to be undone.  So, are accuracy issues mostly talent or mostly coaching?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying he didn't get the right coaching and development to learn NFL tendencies and defenses and has developed bad habits and thought processes that need to get corrected. Accuracy issues are what they are, due to footwork and whatnot, which YES is coachable.

The VAST majority of his issues are coachable.

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To answer the initial question. Will he figure it out and be our franchise QB with Doug Pederson? Right now after five games? The answer is a yes for me. However, just because I think you're the guy right now doesn't mean you're really anything special.

My expectations are dialed back with him now after the last two weeks. So far he's not really taking complete control of the game, he's still wildly inaccurate at times, he's still failing miserably to get this team off to a fast start as I think this is the fifth straight week in a row now where he's yet to lead this offense to a TD on their first offensive possession.

The interceptions in the red zone are just unforgivable for me. At any level in this sport. You cannot [BLEEP] do that guys. I am sorry. Protecting the football is basic level stuff that gets preached at all levels of the sport. When you're in one possession games there's no reason or excuse to make those mistakes. The pass is either there or it's not. He killed us in Philadelphia with the same mistake and he killed us yesterday with the same exact mistake, just much worse because it was in the actual end zone.

This is why I keep referring to him as Sunshine Brett Favre. Because that's how he's playing right now. It's frustrating. One week he's streaky good and then the next he's streaky bad and then good BUT...manages to [BLEEP] up in the most crucial situations of the game that change the ultimate outcome. Classic Favre. The bullet and laser passes too. He still has a long way to go.

He's not Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers though. He's more along the lines of being in between Alex Smith & Matt Ryan for me at the moment.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Pederson could be working towards getting Trevor up to pace and in the right direction while still winning these games. 

Take what the defense gives you. The majority of defenses this year has allowed our RB's the opportunity to have huge games and Pederson has done everything he can to avoid it. 
I sure hope Trevor has some really thick skin or he figures out his problems because he wont get any better if hes down on himself from these last 2 games. 

Trevor being young is something everyone is leaning on, about how he needs time because hes young. Well apparently you need to let Pederson in on this info because hes got him out here slinging the ball like Brett Favre. 

Maybe I'm not seeing the picture how he sees it, but what I can see is a team that very well could of won all of its games so far.

While Doug is light years ahead of the last guy regarding putting Lawrence in a good situation and utilizing our backs - it still comes down to his pass/run philosophy. 

He firmly believes that success with the pass is what is making our effective run game so effective. So he's going to keep throwing it in situations where more traditionally thinking fans would run it.
 Instead of going back to the well with run after run, he believes he needs to get back to a few completions in order to sustain the run game's effectiveness. 

There's definitely some real logic in there, but I would rather stick with what is working on the ground until it actually stops working - ESPECIALLY the the young QB is clearly having a bad day.

This right here is huge to me. I don't know what Trevors mind is like, but you've got a dude that was drafted 1st, being talked about as one of the best prospects ever and hes not looked the best as of yet. Blame Urban, blame age, blame whatever. He mentally went from the very top to near the very bottom with people questioning him right and left. Add in a super bad game against the Eagles, that is tough not to put the blame on him and Pederson for the L, then you go against a winless team and get beat at home? The kid isn't ready to lead this team to wins yet, but he does have the tools to be a very good qb, even right now. Feel like Pederson would be doing Lawrence and himself alot of good by shifting his gameplan towards the run and slowly implement Trevor instead of trying to make him the focal point when he isn't ready.



Also, I voted no because I haven't seen enough change in Lawrence from last year to this year yet to think he has what it takes to be a top 10 qb. Right now I feel like his ceiling is more of a top 15 qb in the league from years to come. That's not knocking him in anyway, he didn't choose to be the #1 pick and go through the Urban crap.

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In Dougie I Trust!

While Doug is light years ahead of the last guy regarding putting Lawrence in a good situation and utilizing our backs - it still comes down to his pass/run philosophy. 

He firmly believes that success with the pass is what is making our effective run game so effective. So he's going to keep throwing it in situations where more traditionally thinking fans would run it.
 Instead of going back to the well with run after run, he believes he needs to get back to a few completions in order to sustain the run game's effectiveness. 

There's definitely some real logic in there, but I would rather stick with what is working on the ground until it actually stops working - ESPECIALLY the the young QB is clearly having a bad day.

This right here is huge to me. I don't know what Trevors mind is like, but you've got a dude that was drafted 1st, being talked about as one of the best prospects ever and hes not looked the best as of yet. Blame Urban, blame age, blame whatever. He mentally went from the very top to near the very bottom with people questioning him right and left. Add in a super bad game against the Eagles that is tough not to put the blame on him and Pederson for the L, then you go against a winless team and get beat at home? The kid isn't ready to lead this team to wins yet, but he does have the tools to be a very good qb, even right now. Feel like Pederson would be doing Lawrence and himself alot of good by shifting his gameplan towards the run and slowly implement Trevor instead of trying to make him the focal point when he isn't ready.



Also, I voted no because I haven't seen enough change in Lawrence from last year to this year yet to think he has what it takes to be a top 10 qb. Right now I feel like his ceiling is more of a top 15 qb in the league from years to come. That's not knocking him in anyway, he didn't choose to be the #1 pick and go through the Urban crap.

I agree with the statement above in bold. As of today Lawrence is 11th in total pass attempts. He's 22nd in completion percentage. With two great games on film and two terrible games on film this should be an opportunity for Pederson to reconfigure his approach. 

Lawrence clearly has a hard time with the deep ball, he's being underutilized in the ground game, as I feel like he should be keeping the ball more and using his legs more. 

It's adapt or die time here in Jacksonville. 2 - 3 is rough. 2 - 4 is rougher on paper. Need to call a gameplan this week that builds Lawrence's confidence back up, puts him in less hero ball situations and allows him to move around more outside of the pocket and use his legs.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

So basically you're saying that everything he does wrong is due to Meyer corrupting him last year, and all that has to be undone.  So, are accuracy issues mostly talent or mostly coaching?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying he didn't get the right coaching and development to learn NFL tendencies and defenses and has developed bad habits and thought processes that need to get corrected. Accuracy issues are what they are, due to footwork and whatnot, which YES is coachable.

The VAST majority of his issues are coachable.

Then by that definition, Tebow should have been able to be coached up to be an acceptable NFL QB in terms of accuracy. My point is that some things aren't necessarily coachable, they are inherent traits that you are given at birth. It's fair to wonder if Lawrence has those traits.

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So basically you're saying that everything he does wrong is due to Meyer corrupting him last year, and all that has to be undone.  So, are accuracy issues mostly talent or mostly coaching?

Meyer treated TLaw like his diamond in the rough.. He didn't need any preseason reps. He didn't need practice games. He was ready from day one..

TLaw's games proved that. The run got totally abandoned and I'm surprised Trevor didn't need Tommy John after all the pass attempts. Urbs was coaching college football at the pro level, and it showed.

Agree that Meyer didn't prepare him adequately. What I wonder is if Lawrence has the intangibles, many of which are given at birth, to be what he's expected to be.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

This right here is huge to me. I don't know what Trevors mind is like, but you've got a dude that was drafted 1st, being talked about as one of the best prospects ever and hes not looked the best as of yet. Blame Urban, blame age, blame whatever. He mentally went from the very top to near the very bottom with people questioning him right and left. Add in a super bad game against the Eagles that is tough not to put the blame on him and Pederson for the L, then you go against a winless team and get beat at home? The kid isn't ready to lead this team to wins yet, but he does have the tools to be a very good qb, even right now. Feel like Pederson would be doing Lawrence and himself alot of good by shifting his gameplan towards the run and slowly implement Trevor instead of trying to make him the focal point when he isn't ready.



Also, I voted no because I haven't seen enough change in Lawrence from last year to this year yet to think he has what it takes to be a top 10 qb. Right now I feel like his ceiling is more of a top 15 qb in the league from years to come. That's not knocking him in anyway, he didn't choose to be the #1 pick and go through the Urban crap.

I agree with the statement above in bold. As of today Lawrence is 11th in total pass attempts. He's 22nd in completion percentage. With two great games on film and two terrible games on film this should be an opportunity for Pederson to reconfigure his approach. 

Lawrence clearly has a hard time with the deep ball, he's being underutilized in the ground game, as I feel like he should be keeping the ball more and using his legs more. 

It's adapt or die time here in Jacksonville. 2 - 3 is rough. 2 - 4 is rougher on paper. Need to call a gameplan this week that builds Lawrence's confidence back up, puts him in less hero ball situations and allows him to move around more outside of the pocket and use his legs.

While I've been espousing more run game for weeks at this point, and I still want tot see it, I also want to see them taking shots downfield with Trevor. 
Yes he's struggling with it right now, but I don't think it's a major issue he can't be coached through and improve. We've seen him make very accurate deep passes. He is capable. 

Bottom line, yes they can mitigate some of his mistakes, but I'd also like to see him get the experience of running a real pro offense that isn't inordinately watered down. 
Even if he struggles at times, there is no better experience for him now than putting it on tape against real opponents and learning from it. 

Hopefully Doug finds some happy middle ground with all of this.

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That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying he didn't get the right coaching and development to learn NFL tendencies and defenses and has developed bad habits and thought processes that need to get corrected. Accuracy issues are what they are, due to footwork and whatnot, which YES is coachable.

The VAST majority of his issues are coachable.

Then by that definition, Tebow should have been able to be coached up to be an acceptable NFL QB in terms of accuracy.  My point is that some things aren't necessarily coachable, they are inherent traits that you are given at birth.  It's fair to wonder if Lawrence has those traits.

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Meyer treated TLaw like his diamond in the rough.. He didn't need any preseason reps. He didn't need practice games. He was ready from day one..

TLaw's games proved that. The run got totally abandoned and I'm surprised Trevor didn't need Tommy John after all the pass attempts. Urbs was coaching college football at the pro level, and it showed.

Agree that Meyer didn't prepare him adequately.  What I wonder is if Lawrence has the intangibles, many of which are given at birth, to be what he's expected to be.

RE: the red sentence

In terms of throwing mechanics and "arm talent"  - you are comparing apples and hot water heaters

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https://twitter.com/dougkyed/status/1579...Pyyqmyq9Yw

Smfh stuff like this pisses me off we could’ve traded down got a haul and let someone else take this overhyped QB

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Before the last 2 games I thought he would be a Kirk Cousins at best.... Now I am not even sure he will be able to reach that level.

I am not gonna say he won't and there is no way he will be. What I will say is that with what I've seen so far from him (last Clemson game until yesterday) I highly doubt he will be a franchise QB.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

https://twitter.com/dougkyed/status/1579...Pyyqmyq9Yw

Smfh stuff like this pisses me off we could’ve traded down got a haul and let someone else take this overhyped QB

1. You are using PFF to make your decision on if he was the right choice or not?

2. Which of those guys would you rather have over Lawrence? Personally I would still pick Trevor over any of those guys. 


Lets take a step back. I understand the frustration, but you are taking it a little too far.

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In Dougie I Trust!