Lol, you guys think the system is going to limit the system's power? For real? The only way we're going to change this is by tearing it down by force. The American Experiment is over, and America lost.

Tough guy.  The man overcome by learned helplessness thinks he's a tough guy.
Real talk.
If there's a Boogaloo, EricC85 might be fine, and L2L will probably be fine, but you and I? Intellectual class office dwelling database navigating bean counters? Our lifestyle would change drastically and for the worse.

Uh yeah, ok. Just because I work in an office doesn't mean my neck isn't pretty red.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Tough guy.  The man overcome by learned helplessness thinks he's a tough guy.
Real talk.
If there's a Boogaloo, EricC85 might be fine, and L2L will probably be fine, but you and I? Intellectual class office dwelling database navigating bean counters? Our lifestyle would change drastically and for the worse.

Uh yeah, ok. Just because I work in an office doesn't mean my neck isn't pretty red.

I say yes ma'am and y'all just as much as you do but that doesn't mean either of us is ready for an amorphous asymmetric civil war.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Uh yeah, ok. Just because I work in an office doesn't mean my neck isn't pretty red.

I say yes ma'am and y'all just as much as you do but that doesn't mean either of us is ready for an amorphous asymmetric civil war.

Lol, but yet you think others on here are. Good one. Do I want war? Of course not, but you know that saying about let it be me instead of my kids as well as I do. The longer we take to institute this national divorce the bloodier it will be when we get there. You're so afraid of losing your scraps that you won't step out of line for the greater good.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I honestly don't think it will ever stop. The left is a religion. Unfortunately, their utopia takes place on earth. They are the gods in forming it. They won't stop until they convert the whole world. So, even if you win your independence, they won't stop trying to convert you.

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All I kept hearing in 2016, between Trump Vs. Clinton. Between the body count history of the Clinton's, the crazy [BLEEP] that happened with the DNC Whistleblower, about Sanders having the Democratic nomination stolen from him, etc. Between Trump's history as a billionaire and some of the things he did throughout his career, his behavior, the infamous "Grab them by the [BLEEP]" soundbite. All I kept hearing was "Well, I am voting for Trump" or "Well, I am voting for Clinton" and both would finish the side of their logic with "Because they're the lesser of two evils".

What a piss poor "logic" to apply here. This is why candidates like Ron Paul and Jesse Ventura get absolutely buried in the mainstream. This is why potential candidates that have an actual strong moral compass, a decent track record of doing the right things, saying the right things, the reputation of not shying away from real issues, like the Federal Reserve [BLEEP] up our fiat currency and making our lives miserable, etc. 

This is why we keep getting these garbage in, garbage out candidates every four years. Until the majority of these two primary voter bases, realizes and understands, that, voting this way every four years has resulted in the same cyclical, abusive relationships we all have with our Government? Nothing will ever change. It's terrifying. Some of you know better than this. 

Would you let your wife, husband, son, daughter, family member, best friend, coworker, etc. Would you let them get behind the wheel drunk? Would you speak up if they were around shady or [BLEEP] [BLEEP] people? Of course you would. So, why are we not applying this same logic as citizens? As tax payers? As neighbors? It's not left Vs. right, it's not liberal Vs. conservative, it's not Democrat Vs. Republican. It's US Vs. THEM. It's always been US Vs. THEM. This is class warfare. It's about the plutocracy, the real movers and the shakers, the bankers, the real gangsters Vs. us, the little guy, the struggling single mother at home working two jobs, the hard working father trying to scrape by to make ends meet breaking his back 14 hours or more a day, the forgotten veterans that did these people's dirty work for them. 

When are we going to see this as a society? When are we going to wake up and take our country back from these pigs? These ticks, leeches? These vultures? Because that's what they are.

Yes, I understand all that, but voting the lesser of two evils is all we have.

No it isn’t.  You’ve been brainwashed to believe that the only choice you have is “d” or “r”.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

It's called frustration, man. I've been trying to deflect this "big money is the problem" nonsense for as long as Ive been old enough to vote.  I'm not a machine.  Maybe you've never said it to me, but I have heard it too many times.
The others on here say I'm too robotic.
Can't win.  No one wants to change their minds about anything.
Have fun staying dumb.
Keeping losing.  Keep watching things get worse.  Keep not understanding why.
Go Jags.

It's complex. For sure. It's not always about big bad corporations and money, it's a game of give and take. Politicians also play a part in accepting bribes and doing these corporate overlords favors underneath the table. The voter base has to play it's part as well. We cannot keep voting the way that it stands now. It's driving our country into the ground. 

We also need these parties to take responsibility and own up to their own personal shortcomings instead of continuing this dog and pony show where they pretend to hate one another when we all know these people are bumping elbows and eating from the same exact tables held by the same exact corporations looking to buy them out for laws and tax breaks to benefit them. 

It's like having a leak in your home with old copper plumbing, you can patch one area of the pipe up after you discover one source of the leak, but, the chances of you solving your issue there for the long term is highly unlikely as it'll just spring up again elsewhere within your foundation. In those instances you cut the foundation off from the source, bleed it dry, and refit the foundation and home with new systems and pipes. Sharkbite goes a long way as well.

But it’s not that complex.  Single issue Bills, no riders, no attachments.  Say a Tennessee senator wants to propose replacing a bridge in Memphis that crosses the Mississippi River, then that is the issue.  If a senator in St. Louis or Baton Rouge has a “What about?” issue then send it back until they hammer it out.  However if a senator from California offers a I’ll vote for it if you add this for The Los Angles River then nope!  Sorry! Bring it up in a separate Bill.  

The only way to get corruption out of politics is to have them justify every dollar they vote to spend and have it public record.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Yes, I understand all that, but voting the lesser of two evils is all we have.

No it isn’t.  You’ve been brainwashed to believe that the only choice you have is “d” or “r”.

Voting independent or third party in our system is nothing more than a form of protest.  And a form of protest with no endgame, at that.  If not enough people do it, no one cares.  If more than about 5% of the people do it, that signals to one of the bigger parties that they need to co-opt some of the ideas, but you never know which ones.  And you never know if they'll actually implement them.  Regardless, the co-opting preserves the two party system. It does not reduce corruption nor does it ever present a positive choice to the voter.  
It is not this way in other countries. Other countries do one of two things. They either give seats to second and third place candidates, or they let voters rank candidates. I think the first idea is not really compatible with our constitution, because there's usually only one seat (say a single senate seat) to win at a time.
So only ranked choice voting will ever reliably present most voters with a positive choice.  If they only let you put one mark on your ballot, you will only ever use it out of fear to say no to the candidate you hate.  It's only when you have more than one mark to give that you will feel secure enough and wealthy enough to give some marks out of pride or hope or virtue.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It's complex. For sure. It's not always about big bad corporations and money, it's a game of give and take. Politicians also play a part in accepting bribes and doing these corporate overlords favors underneath the table. The voter base has to play it's part as well. We cannot keep voting the way that it stands now. It's driving our country into the ground. 

We also need these parties to take responsibility and own up to their own personal shortcomings instead of continuing this dog and pony show where they pretend to hate one another when we all know these people are bumping elbows and eating from the same exact tables held by the same exact corporations looking to buy them out for laws and tax breaks to benefit them. 

It's like having a leak in your home with old copper plumbing, you can patch one area of the pipe up after you discover one source of the leak, but, the chances of you solving your issue there for the long term is highly unlikely as it'll just spring up again elsewhere within your foundation. In those instances you cut the foundation off from the source, bleed it dry, and refit the foundation and home with new systems and pipes. Sharkbite goes a long way as well.

But it’s not that complex.  Single issue Bills, no riders, no attachments.  Say a Tennessee senator wants to propose replacing a bridge in Memphis that crosses the Mississippi River, then that is the issue.  If a senator in St. Louis or Baton Rouge has a “What about?” issue then send it back until they hammer it out.  However if a senator from California offers a I’ll vote for it if you add this for The Los Angles River then nope!  Sorry! Bring it up in a separate Bill.  

The only way to get corruption out of politics is to have them justify every dollar they vote to spend and have it public record.

They'll make the deals behind closed doors instead.  Your idea has been tried.  Repeatedly.  It does not work.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Term limits won't work. Getting corporate money out of politics would be nice, but it doesn't solve the problem of the corporate-government carousel, or the ability for the elite to make politicians rich through insider trading and faux book deals. The solution is to (1) cap earnings, (2) limit campaign donations to personal donations that are capped at a set amount (like 5% of yearly income), and (3) give people the ability to give a vote of no-confidence to politicians in power.

(1) amounts to a 100% marginal tax rate.  No place would ever do that.  The evasive financial maneuvers would boggle the mind.

(2) we do this already, in terms of donations from a person or corporation to a candidate.  But then we say that anyone can create a PAC that takes any amount of post tax income and that PAC can spend its money on whatever political message they want.  The Supreme Court says that any effort to say "PACs can't spend that money" or "PACs can't accept that money" or "PACs can't spread those messages" is a violation of the 1st amendment, and I tend to agree.

(3) I think this is a good idea and would help.  But I think a true round Robin ranked voting system would basically allow us to have a "no confidence" vote and select a new person at the same time.  Uniquely with round Robin, you are comparing the incumbent to each possible alternative separately.

Your continued proposal of a ranked voting system will never work on its own.  Since the masses rely on a corrupt corporate media (which is what is what we have now) then the same corrupt politicians will continue to be voted in.

---

I say yes ma'am and y'all just as much as you do but that doesn't mean either of us is ready for an amorphous asymmetric civil war.

Lol, but yet you think others on here are. Good one. Do I want war? Of course not, but you know that saying about let it be me instead of my kids as well as I do. The longer we take to institute this national divorce the bloodier it will be when we get there. You're so afraid of losing your scraps that you won't step out of line for the greater good.

Well stated

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

But it’s not that complex.  Single issue Bills, no riders, no attachments.  Say a Tennessee senator wants to propose replacing a bridge in Memphis that crosses the Mississippi River, then that is the issue.  If a senator in St. Louis or Baton Rouge has a “What about?” issue then send it back until they hammer it out.  However if a senator from California offers a I’ll vote for it if you add this for The Los Angles River then nope!  Sorry! Bring it up in a separate Bill.  

The only way to get corruption out of politics is to have them justify every dollar they vote to spend and have it public record.

They'll make the deals behind closed doors instead.  Your idea has been tried.  Repeatedly.  It does not work.

 When?  Where?  I call BS until you show me otherwise because I have never seen nor heard of such a thing except small club basic parliamentary procedure.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I honestly don't think it will ever stop. The left is a religion. Unfortunately, their utopia takes place on earth. They are the gods in forming it. They won't stop until they convert the whole world. So, even if you win your independence, they won't stop trying to convert you.

And the right is literally handcuffed to a religion.
Not much difference there.
Christianity has literally been trying to convert the world for centuries. 
Did you not anticipate a natural reciprocation? 

Folks feel strongly about their convictions no matter what they are. 
Whether they think praying to their God and adopting their morality is the only way, or if they reject having someone else's morality shoved down their throats. 

What a revelation.

---

I say yes ma'am and y'all just as much as you do but that doesn't mean either of us is ready for an amorphous asymmetric civil war.

Lol, but yet you think others on here are. Good one. Do I want war? Of course not, but you know that saying about let it be me instead of my kids as well as I do. The longer we take to institute this national divorce the bloodier it will be when we get there. You're so afraid of losing your scraps that you won't step out of line for the greater good.

OK, you're talking on my level now. In theory a federal system can peaceably divorce, but more often at least some blood is shed.  And if a separatist like you could convince an anti-separatist like me to just let go, that would greatly decrease the bloodshed.  That's reasonable.
Until you start looking at a map.  Look at an election results map at the county or precinct level.  Now, try to draw those lines for the national divorce

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

They'll make the deals behind closed doors instead.  Your idea has been tried.  Repeatedly.  It does not work.

 When?  Where?  I call BS until you show me otherwise because I have never seen nor heard of such a thing except small club basic parliamentary procedure.

The single subject rule exists in 43 state constitutions in the United States. 41 states apply the rule to all legislation, whereas Mississippi and Arkansas apply it only to appropriations bills.

Have these 41 states become models of good governance?

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

 When?  Where?  I call BS until you show me otherwise because I have never seen nor heard of such a thing except small club basic parliamentary procedure.

The single subject rule exists in 43 state constitutions in the United States. 41 states apply the rule to all legislation, whereas Mississippi and Arkansas apply it only to appropriations bills.

Have these 41 states become models of good governance?

Link plz

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

(1) amounts to a 100% marginal tax rate.  No place would ever do that.  The evasive financial maneuvers would boggle the mind.

(2) we do this already, in terms of donations from a person or corporation to a candidate.  But then we say that anyone can create a PAC that takes any amount of post tax income and that PAC can spend its money on whatever political message they want.  The Supreme Court says that any effort to say "PACs can't spend that money" or "PACs can't accept that money" or "PACs can't spread those messages" is a violation of the 1st amendment, and I tend to agree.

(3) I think this is a good idea and would help.  But I think a true round Robin ranked voting system would basically allow us to have a "no confidence" vote and select a new person at the same time.  Uniquely with round Robin, you are comparing the incumbent to each possible alternative separately.

Your continued proposal of a ranked voting system will never work on its own.  Since the masses rely on a corrupt corporate media (which is what is what we have now) then the same corrupt politicians will continue to be voted in.

---

Lol, but yet you think others on here are. Good one. Do I want war? Of course not, but you know that saying about let it be me instead of my kids as well as I do. The longer we take to institute this national divorce the bloodier it will be when we get there. You're so afraid of losing your scraps that you won't step out of line for the greater good.

Well stated

The ranked voting changes the incentive structure, allowing a candidate to make ending corruption his main issue without having to worry about other candidates outflanking him on other shiny object type issues that the media will try to distract us with.  That candidate will then be able to expose corruption in ways the media will be less able to ignore, because a vote for that candidate wouldn't necessarily be wasted, so it would be plausible that many would vote for them..

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Have these 41 states become models of good governance?

Link plz

Google the quote. It's just Wikipedia.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

lolol

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lolol

I guess that is oneway to respond to him.  I am utterly speechless and am unable to comprehend this logic.  Never mind the response to the request for a link.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

lolol

I guess that is oneway to respond to him.  I am utterly speechless and am unable to comprehend this logic.  Never mind the response to the request for a link.

Read the state constitutions for yourself.  Start with Minnesota.
Minnesota's legislature has been bound by a single subject rule for some time now.  How's that working?

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Lol, you guys think the system is going to limit the system's power? For real? The only way we're going to change this is by tearing it down by force. The American Experiment is over, and America lost.

Is this not an extreme viewpoint?  Does it not call for violence?

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Lol, you guys think the system is going to limit the system's power? For real? The only way we're going to change this is by tearing it down by force. The American Experiment is over, and America lost.

Is this not an extreme viewpoint?  Does it not call for violence?

Nah, it's a statement of fact.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato