Not really sure about the ascending part. Looking at the last couple of drafts I think the Jaguars are probably already as good as they get until they find a new GM that can evaluate talent.

I know there's no dissuading people who are locked into the "I hate Baalke" position, but my present opinion is, I would not try to replace the GM that, in about 2 seasons, took this team from worst in the league to top-10 or better.  

Other successful GMs have massive failures routinely.  Look at John Lynch in San Francisco with the deal that landed them Trey Lance.  What a disaster that was.  And look at the Chiefs with the Jawaan Taylor deal.  That was a terrible deal.  

Seriously, I don't know what we're complaining about.  Some people seem to want every move to be perfect and the team to immediately go from worst to first and win the Super Bowl.

You make some good points. I also believe Pederson had the most to do with the terrible picks in rounds 2 and 3 last season. Baalke's personality and reputation prior to joining the Jaguars also make him difficult to like. Overall, he has done a good job with the 2022 free agency class being the highlight. As you said, most of us are so invested in this team that we tend to overreact to transactions which we are totally against at the times they are made. I continue to feel that way about the Strange and Bigsby picks, but hopefully both will become productive players as they gain experience.

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I know there's no dissuading people who are locked into the "I hate Baalke" position, but my present opinion is, I would not try to replace the GM that, in about 2 seasons, took this team from worst in the league to top-10 or better.  

Other successful GMs have massive failures routinely.  Look at John Lynch in San Francisco with the deal that landed them Trey Lance.  What a disaster that was.  And look at the Chiefs with the Jawaan Taylor deal.  That was a terrible deal.  

Seriously, I don't know what we're complaining about.  Some people seem to want every move to be perfect and the team to immediately go from worst to first and win the Super Bowl.

You make some good points. I also believe Pederson had the most to do with the terrible picks in rounds 2 and 3 last season. Baalke's personality and reputation prior to joining the Jaguars also make him difficult to like. Overall, he has done a good job with the 2022 free agency class being the highlight. As you said, most of us are so invested in this team that we tend to overreact to transactions which we are totally against at the times they are made. I continue to feel that way about the Strange and Bigsby picks, but hopefully both will become productive players as they gain experience.

I've seen runs from Bigsby that give me hope. He may yet become a good rotational piece. 

Sadly - I haven't seen a block or a route from Strange that convinces me he's not a fifth round pick at best.

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You make some good points. I also believe Pederson had the most to do with the terrible picks in rounds 2 and 3 last season. Baalke's personality and reputation prior to joining the Jaguars also make him difficult to like. Overall, he has done a good job with the 2022 free agency class being the highlight. As you said, most of us are so invested in this team that we tend to overreact to transactions which we are totally against at the times they are made. I continue to feel that way about the Strange and Bigsby picks, but hopefully both will become productive players as they gain experience.

I've seen runs from Bigsby that give me hope. He may yet become a good rotational piece. 

Sadly - I haven't seen a block or a route from Strange that convinces me he's not a fifth round pick at best.

As a Penn State alumnus, I'm usually happy when the Jaguars draft one of their players. That wasn't at all the case with Strange, who lacks the traits necessary to be a difference-making tight end. Pederson made that pick due to his affinity for utilizing tight ends combined with the fact that Mayer, Laporta and Musgrave were all off the board. It was truly a reach, especially when someone like Torrence was available prior to trading back a few spots. Strange will likely become an average player who should have been drafted much later.

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Don't forget the part where they focus more on a stat line than on watching a particular player play and go "Aha!  See I knew he was terrible."

My opinions on the quality of the roster aren't about stats, it's about the eye test.

When I watch the Jaguars play what I see is a very well coached team getting the most out of a so-so defensive roster and a QB playing behind a bad offensive line.

Whose fault is it that the line is bad? Whose fault is it that the defense can mostly bend without breaking against bad offensive teams (until those teams decide they have to throw deep, then they go right down the field for TDs during points in the game when that should be the thing our defense is the most focused on stopping) but get run over by the 49ers and texans?

Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, we're not the best team in the league?  Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, the team is not completely rebuilt, without a single remaining weakness, and clobbering all the elite teams?  Is that what you're asking?

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My opinions on the quality of the roster aren't about stats, it's about the eye test.

When I watch the Jaguars play what I see is a very well coached team getting the most out of a so-so defensive roster and a QB playing behind a bad offensive line.

Whose fault is it that the line is bad? Whose fault is it that the defense can mostly bend without breaking against bad offensive teams (until those teams decide they have to throw deep, then they go right down the field for TDs during points in the game when that should be the thing our defense is the most focused on stopping) but get run over by the 49ers and texans?

Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, we're not the best team in the league?  Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, the team is not completely rebuilt, without a single remaining weakness, and clobbering all the elite teams?  Is that what you're asking?

Don't straw-man me, it only undermines your argument. The Jaguars' offensive line so far has probably been the bottom of the league. I'm not asking for them to be number one, I'm stating that Baalke has been the GM for three years, drafted three offensive linemen and signed another in high price free agency, and it's a bottom of the league unit. Is that acceptable to you? We're not talking about them being average, with average this team probably has another win or two and Trevor never got his knee injury.

The fact that Doug and Trevor have gotten the Jaguars to 7-3 in spite of it says incredible things about them both, but you don't win Superbowls when the ball has to be out of the QBs' hands in two seconds to save him from being crunched and you're running for 3.8 yards an attempt with a first round running back.

The worst part about the Jaguars right now is most of our impact talent is from free agency or the last regime. Trevor was a no brainier, but besides making the pick anyone could have made, which draftees that Baalke has taken seem to be headed for pro bowl status? Etienne? Maybe, but a first round running back had better be an elite back for you to take them that high, and he hasn't been that this year, good, but by no means elite. Campbell? Probably not while playing for Jax. Lloyd? He's playing decently, but again, off the ball linebackers on teams like Jax don't get much love. Cisco? He'll need a lot more ints before he gets consideration.

It's hard to win long term when you're drafting backup level players on the second day of the draft on a team that is by no means stacked with elite talent.

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Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, we're not the best team in the league?  Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, the team is not completely rebuilt, without a single remaining weakness, and clobbering all the elite teams?  Is that what you're asking?

Don't straw-man me, it only undermines your argument. The Jaguars' offensive line so far has probably been the bottom of the league. I'm not asking for them to be number one, I'm stating that Baalke has been the GM for three years, drafted three offensive linemen and signed another in high price free agency, and it's a bottom of the league unit. Is that acceptable to you? We're not talking about them being average, with average this team probably has another win or two and Trevor never got his knee injury.

The fact that Doug and Trevor have gotten the Jaguars to 7-3 in spite of it says incredible things about them both, but you don't win Superbowls when the ball has to be out of the QBs' hands in two seconds to save him from being crunched and you're running for 3.8 yards an attempt with a first round running back.

The worst part about the Jaguars right now is most of our impact talent is from free agency or the last regime. Trevor was a no brainier, but besides making the pick anyone could have made, which draftees that Baalke has taken seem to be headed for pro bowl status? Etienne? Maybe, but a first round running back had better be an elite back for you to take them that high, and he hasn't been that this year, good, but by no means elite. Campbell? Probably not while playing for Jax. Lloyd? He's playing decently, but again, off the ball linebackers on teams like Jax don't get much love. Cisco? He'll need a lot more ints before he gets consideration.

It's hard to win long term when you're drafting backup level players on the second day of the draft on a team that is by no means stacked with elite talent.

Bro the team is 7-3, enjoy it man.

Two of our losses came against arguably 2 of the top 3 teams in the NFL.

As for that other loss, it looks like the tinhorns might not be as bad as people thought.

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Don't straw-man me, it only undermines your argument. The Jaguars' offensive line so far has probably been the bottom of the league. I'm not asking for them to be number one, I'm stating that Baalke has been the GM for three years, drafted three offensive linemen and signed another in high price free agency, and it's a bottom of the league unit. Is that acceptable to you? We're not talking about them being average, with average this team probably has another win or two and Trevor never got his knee injury.

The fact that Doug and Trevor have gotten the Jaguars to 7-3 in spite of it says incredible things about them both, but you don't win Superbowls when the ball has to be out of the QBs' hands in two seconds to save him from being crunched and you're running for 3.8 yards an attempt with a first round running back.

The worst part about the Jaguars right now is most of our impact talent is from free agency or the last regime. Trevor was a no brainier, but besides making the pick anyone could have made, which draftees that Baalke has taken seem to be headed for pro bowl status? Etienne? Maybe, but a first round running back had better be an elite back for you to take them that high, and he hasn't been that this year, good, but by no means elite. Campbell? Probably not while playing for Jax. Lloyd? He's playing decently, but again, off the ball linebackers on teams like Jax don't get much love. Cisco? He'll need a lot more ints before he gets consideration.

It's hard to win long term when you're drafting backup level players on the second day of the draft on a team that is by no means stacked with elite talent.

Bro the team is 7-3, enjoy it man.

Two of our losses came against arguably 2 of the top 3 teams in the NFL.

As for that other loss, it looks like the tinhorns might not be as bad as people thought.

Thanks for sharing.

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Bro the team is 7-3, enjoy it man.

Two of our losses came against arguably 2 of the top 3 teams in the NFL.

As for that other loss, it looks like the tinhorns might not be as bad as people thought.

Thanks for sharing.

Naw you'd rather complain, just to complain right?

Always gotta cry about something.

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Thanks for sharing.

Naw you'd rather complain, just to complain right?

Always gotta cry about something.

Do you even know what we're discussing?

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Naw you'd rather complain, just to complain right?

Always gotta cry about something.

Do you even know what we're discussing?

"We aren't ascending unless we fire Baalke because his OL acquisitions have sucked" was where you left off last I checked.

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Naw you'd rather complain, just to complain right?

Always gotta cry about something.

Do you even know what we're discussing?

I'm well aware of what the so called discussion/whine fest is about. Same crap we've discussed for years and years. Nothing is ever good enough. Baalke is bad, the OL is bad, the talent is bad etc. etc. blah. blah.

But you know what the fact of the matter is? We're 7-3. There's talent on this roster, young and old. Whether you want to believe it or not.

And for your gauge of who's a good talent being based on who makes the Pro Bowl, or not is stupid. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest and nothing more. The fans literally vote on who gets into it. The majority of fans don't know jack [BLEEP].

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Let's save the whining about Baalke for the off-season, now that the trade deadline has passed. We can assume Robinson will not be on the team next year. That leaves some cap room to improve the line. Maybe.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, we're not the best team in the league?  Whose fault is it that 2 years after being the worst team in the league, the team is not completely rebuilt, without a single remaining weakness, and clobbering all the elite teams?  Is that what you're asking?

Don't straw-man me, it only undermines your argument. The Jaguars' offensive line so far has probably been the bottom of the league. I'm not asking for them to be number one, I'm stating that Baalke has been the GM for three years, drafted three offensive linemen and signed another in high price free agency, and it's a bottom of the league unit. Is that acceptable to you? We're not talking about them being average, with average this team probably has another win or two and Trevor never got his knee injury.

The fact that Doug and Trevor have gotten the Jaguars to 7-3 in spite of it says incredible things about them both, but you don't win Superbowls when the ball has to be out of the QBs' hands in two seconds to save him from being crunched and you're running for 3.8 yards an attempt with a first round running back.

The worst part about the Jaguars right now is most of our impact talent is from free agency or the last regime. Trevor was a no brainier, but besides making the pick anyone could have made, which draftees that Baalke has taken seem to be headed for pro bowl status? Etienne? Maybe, but a first round running back had better be an elite back for you to take them that high, and he hasn't been that this year, good, but by no means elite. Campbell? Probably not while playing for Jax. Lloyd? He's playing decently, but again, off the ball linebackers on teams like Jax don't get much love. Cisco? He'll need a lot more ints before he gets consideration.

It's hard to win long term when you're drafting backup level players on the second day of the draft on a team that is by no means stacked with elite talent.

The biggest reason we are 7-3 is because of our defense

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Don't straw-man me, it only undermines your argument. The Jaguars' offensive line so far has probably been the bottom of the league. I'm not asking for them to be number one, I'm stating that Baalke has been the GM for three years, drafted three offensive linemen and signed another in high price free agency, and it's a bottom of the league unit. Is that acceptable to you? We're not talking about them being average, with average this team probably has another win or two and Trevor never got his knee injury.

The fact that Doug and Trevor have gotten the Jaguars to 7-3 in spite of it says incredible things about them both, but you don't win Superbowls when the ball has to be out of the QBs' hands in two seconds to save him from being crunched and you're running for 3.8 yards an attempt with a first round running back.

The worst part about the Jaguars right now is most of our impact talent is from free agency or the last regime. Trevor was a no brainier, but besides making the pick anyone could have made, which draftees that Baalke has taken seem to be headed for pro bowl status? Etienne? Maybe, but a first round running back had better be an elite back for you to take them that high, and he hasn't been that this year, good, but by no means elite. Campbell? Probably not while playing for Jax. Lloyd? He's playing decently, but again, off the ball linebackers on teams like Jax don't get much love. Cisco? He'll need a lot more ints before he gets consideration.

It's hard to win long term when you're drafting backup level players on the second day of the draft on a team that is by no means stacked with elite talent.

The biggest reason we are 7-3 is because of our defense

I think the biggest reason we're 7-3 is because of coaching. The defense has mostly done well because they've mostly been prepared well.

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Do you even know what we're discussing?

I'm well aware of what the so called discussion/whine fest is about. Same crap we've discussed for years and years. Nothing is ever good enough. Baalke is bad, the OL is bad, the talent is bad etc. etc. blah. blah.

But you know what the fact of the matter is? We're 7-3. There's talent on this roster, young and old. Whether you want to believe it or not.

And for your gauge of who's a good talent being based on who makes the Pro Bowl, or not is stupid. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest and nothing more. The fans literally vote on who gets into it. The majority of fans don't know jack [BLEEP].

Yes, yes, whinefest.

My point isn't that the team isn't good, my point is that I don't see it as an ascending team at this point, the team has arrived at its level, which is good enough to be tied for the best record in the AFC, right now.

I wish I thought there's another gear for this group and they'd turn into the 49ers, and while unlikely it could theoretically happen. It just seems unrealistic at this point.

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I'm well aware of what the so called discussion/whine fest is about. Same crap we've discussed for years and years. Nothing is ever good enough. Baalke is bad, the OL is bad, the talent is bad etc. etc. blah. blah.

But you know what the fact of the matter is? We're 7-3. There's talent on this roster, young and old. Whether you want to believe it or not.

And for your gauge of who's a good talent being based on who makes the Pro Bowl, or not is stupid. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest and nothing more. The fans literally vote on who gets into it. The majority of fans don't know jack [BLEEP].

Yes, yes, whinefest.

My point isn't that the team isn't good, my point is that I don't see it as an ascending team at this point, the team has arrived at its level, which is good enough to be tied for the best record in the AFC, right now.

I wish I thought there's another gear for this group and they'd turn into the 49ers, and while unlikely it could theoretically happen. It just seems unrealistic at this point.

Two years after being the worst team in the league, we are now arguably a top-10 team, leading our division, and you want to fire the GM because you don't think we're going to keep getting better?  <That is absolutely the worst reason I've ever heard for firing a GM.

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Yes, yes, whinefest.

My point isn't that the team isn't good, my point is that I don't see it as an ascending team at this point, the team has arrived at its level, which is good enough to be tied for the best record in the AFC, right now.

I wish I thought there's another gear for this group and they'd turn into the 49ers, and while unlikely it could theoretically happen. It just seems unrealistic at this point.

Two years after being the worst team in the league, we are now arguably a top-10 team, leading our division, and you want to fire the GM because you don't think we're going to keep getting better?  <That is absolutely the worst reason I've ever heard for firing a GM.

Go back and read through my posts, again, this time without an agenda of trying to misunderstand just to get to the point of continuing insults, and I think you'll get it, and probably agree with me

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The biggest reason we are 7-3 is because of our defense

I think the biggest reason we're 7-3 is because of coaching. The defense has mostly done well because they've mostly been prepared well.

We are loaded with talent on offense and defense.  Our record should actually be better than 7-3 imo although this is our best start in 23 years.  As far as our oline I think we have good pieces at every position outside of center and I think they start playing better down th stretch for a playoff push.  This is the definition of an ascending team that I feel is just starting to scratch the surface and best football is in front of us.  If Fortner can't improve we need a real center and that would be huge for the oline.  We have talent at pretty much everywhere and not many weaknesses at the starting positions

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