Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

I'm in total agreement with Americus.. They put the cart before the horse and started pumping out the vehicles before the real infrastructure was created for them. Leaving the customer on the hook for over-priced pieces of [BLEEP]. Good idea, poorly executed..

---

Your point about affordability is spot on.  The government has some limited powers in this area, not rights, but the affordability to the end user is one of the main limits on their power.   At one time the government may have had the power to say, "these cars pollute too much, everyone adopt this unaffordable clean tech or else go back to horse and buggy." But that was long ago, if ever at all.   The only reason anyone in government, CA, CT, federal, or otherwise, was able to mandate catalytic converters or unleaded gas was affordability. The industry experts said they could make it affordable if the market was mandated and they delivered. Industry experts don't really believe EVs will ever be as practical or affordable as gas cars, even with a guaranteed market.  That could change.  But no one thinks the tech is there today.

You say affordability is what restricts them.  I believe the exact opposite is the end game.  It appears to me like the mandates are an attempt to price the common man out of the market and force him to use public transportation, which is the ultimate goal of the government.

Maybe Ned Lamont feels that way, but obviously a majority of the CT legislature, and any other legislature in the US, does not agree that cars should be made unaffordable.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

Honestly, I don't like something that can be hacked. Anything with an internet connection can be compromised. 

My truck is a 2002 Silverado and is completely 'analog.' I like that I have control of my truck. No one can hack anything. Also, if I need to replace the alternator I can do it (and have done it), my battery only costs $150 to replace, I can change my oil, I can replace a headlight. I've replaced dash lights, an AC module and all sorts of things that wear out with age. I also love the V8, 5.3L engine that hauls what I need it to. I am a mechanic's daughter. Lol.

My husband has a 2014 Chevy Malibu and I can't even see the alternator much less replace it. He has two batteries, one of which powers most of the accessory functions of the car. If the module connecting the two goes out on it you have to replace the battery, not just the module. His aunt and uncle have a Prius and I can't even tell you how much they have overspent on that car to replace things because they're not something the everyday Joe can do. Plus the parts alone are outrageously expensive. 

I prefer older vehicles for so many reasons.

---

Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

My personal objection is there is currently not an EV that meets my needs.  Eventually they will through innovation and advancements in technology.  That is IF EV’s are indeed the future of transportation.  If not something else will take its place. Therefore there is no need to mandate changes, incentivise yes, but I strongly oppose mandates.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

You say affordability is what restricts them.  I believe the exact opposite is the end game.  It appears to me like the mandates are an attempt to price the common man out of the market and force him to use public transportation, which is the ultimate goal of the government.

Maybe Ned Lamont feels that way, but obviously a majority of the CT legislature, and any other legislature in the US, does not agree that cars should be made unaffordable.

Mike, the far left has already stated that as an objective, use public transportation, get rid of POV’s.  I realise you do not believe there is a deep state and you trust the government.  Unfortunately much like they told us Covid was natural, eventually evidence showed it was lab born and eventually the evidence of a deep state and behind the scenes players will too come to light.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

My personal objection is there is currently not an EV that meets my needs.  Eventually they will through innovation and advancements in technology.  That is IF EV’s are indeed the future of transportation.  If not something else will take its place. Therefore there is no need to mandate changes, incentivise yes, but I strongly oppose mandates.

Agree 100%.  I'm pro EVs existing.  I'm pro incentives until they become more economical and mass produced.  But I'll buy one when I'm ready to buy one, and no sooner.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Maybe Ned Lamont feels that way, but obviously a majority of the CT legislature, and any other legislature in the US, does not agree that cars should be made unaffordable.

Mike, the far left has already stated that as an objective, use public transportation, get rid of POV’s.  I realise you do not believe there is a deep state and you trust the government.  Unfortunately much like they told us Covid was natural, eventually evidence showed it was lab born and eventually the evidence of a deep state and behind the scenes players will too come to light.

I don't trust the government. Much.
I trust the regular left to silence the far left and prevent the far left from affecting my life.  The right helps too.  Hasn't failed me yet.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Mike, the far left has already stated that as an objective, use public transportation, get rid of POV’s.  I realise you do not believe there is a deep state and you trust the government.  Unfortunately much like they told us Covid was natural, eventually evidence showed it was lab born and eventually the evidence of a deep state and behind the scenes players will too come to light.

I don't trust the government. Much.
I trust the regular left to silence the far left and prevent the far left from affecting my life.  The right helps too.  Hasn't failed me yet.

What evidence have you seen of late to support that belief?  My gosh man!  We have men claiming to be women competing in women’s sports and the regular left has been silent.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I don't trust the government. Much.
I trust the regular left to silence the far left and prevent the far left from affecting my life.  The right helps too.  Hasn't failed me yet.

What evidence have you seen of late to support that belief?  My gosh man!  We have men claiming to be women competing in women’s sports and the regular left has been silent.

Yeah, that's disappointing, but it doesn't affect my life.  Now it would be very selfish of me to leave it there, but I don't.  I do care about others' lives, and I know you do too.  So consider, the girl who lost out on a college level swimming championship due to this, she's a sorta celebrity now.  She's on TV.  Paid to give speeches and appear in forums.  I don't feel *that* bad for her.  This transgender athlete stuff will get sorted out.  People will compete exclusively in their birth gender again.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

I don't mind EVs as an additional car for city driving. It still doesn't make much sense to me as an "environmental" option. Here's some of the reasons...

Mining and Rare Earth Materials:

• Intensive mining for lithium, cobalt, and nickel.
  
• High environmental costs: land degradation, water pollution.
  
• Labor concerns: human rights abuses, exploitative practices.
  

Environmental Impact of Battery Production:

• High energy use and carbon footprint in battery production.
  
• Significant water usage, contributing to water depletion in mining areas.
  
• Toxic waste and pollution from mining activities.
  

Weight and Energy Efficiency:

• Heavier weight due to battery packs.
  
• Increased tire and road wear.
  

Lifecycle Emissions and Manufacturing:

• Energy-intensive manufacturing process.
  
• Lifecycle emissions from production to disposal.
  
• Dependency on energy sources in manufacturing locations.
  

Energy Sources for Charging:

• Dependence on electricity grid, often powered by fossil fuels.
  
• Regional variations in the source of electricity (coal, natural gas, renewables).
  
• Grid strain and infrastructure challenges.
  

Recycling and Waste Management:

• Challenges in battery disposal and recycling.
  
• Inefficient recycling processes, leading to environmental concerns.
  
• Batteries ending up in landfills.
  

Socio-Economic and Ethical Considerations:

• Impact on local communities near mining areas.
  
• Geopolitical issues due to concentration of rare earth materials in certain regions.
  
• Ethical considerations in material sourcing and labor practices
  

Overall, while EVs offer significant benefits in reducing emissions during their operational phase, their overall environmental impact is complex and depends on various factors including the source of electricity, battery production, and end-of-life management. This impact is nuanced compared to the more straightforward impact of ICE vehicles, which primarily revolves around CO2 emissions during operation. As usual, I don't feel like we're operating with all the information we need to make an informed decision. EVs are unsustainable at this juncture. 

Should people buy them? If they want, sure. Should the government be pushing for them? Absolutely not. We're not ready. We don't have any of these questions really answered.

---

Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

I don't mind EVs as an additional car for city driving. It still doesn't make much sense to me as an "environmental" option. Here's some of the reasons...

Mining and Rare Earth Materials:

• Intensive mining for lithium, cobalt, and nickel.
  
• High environmental costs: land degradation, water pollution.
  
• Labor concerns: human rights abuses, exploitative practices.
  

Environmental Impact of Battery Production:

• High energy use and carbon footprint in battery production.
  
• Significant water usage, contributing to water depletion in mining areas.
  
• Toxic waste and pollution from mining activities.
  

Weight and Energy Efficiency:

• Heavier weight due to battery packs.
  
• Increased tire and road wear.
  

Lifecycle Emissions and Manufacturing:

• Energy-intensive manufacturing process.
  
• Lifecycle emissions from production to disposal.
  
• Dependency on energy sources in manufacturing locations.
  

Energy Sources for Charging:

• Dependence on electricity grid, often powered by fossil fuels.
  
• Regional variations in the source of electricity (coal, natural gas, renewables).
  
• Grid strain and infrastructure challenges.
  

Recycling and Waste Management:

• Challenges in battery disposal and recycling.
  
• Inefficient recycling processes, leading to environmental concerns.
  
• Batteries ending up in landfills.
  

Socio-Economic and Ethical Considerations:

• Impact on local communities near mining areas.
  
• Geopolitical issues due to concentration of rare earth materials in certain regions.
  
• Ethical considerations in material sourcing and labor practices
  

Overall, while EVs offer significant benefits in reducing emissions during their operational phase, their overall environmental impact is complex and depends on various factors including the source of electricity, battery production, and end-of-life management. This impact is nuanced compared to the more straightforward impact of ICE vehicles, which primarily revolves around CO2 emissions during operation. As usual, I don't feel like we're operating with all the information we need to make an informed decision. EVs are unsustainable at this juncture. 

Should people buy them? If they want, sure. Should the government be pushing for them? Absolutely not. We're not ready. We don't have any of these questions really answered.

Those are all real concerns, but in most places for most people an EV still results in significantly less carbon emissions over its operational life.  If the manufacturing and recharging are both done entirely with coal fired power plants, the carbon benefits are questionable. As long as there's at least some nat gas or nuclear or renewable in the power mix, there are significant reductions in carbon emissions.

The other costs you mention, water, land use, etc., are local problems.  Climate is global, though.  Carbon emissions are the main concern for any serious environmentalist and it's not a close question.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Does anyone who is anti-EV have a reason specific to the technology? I’m curious to know if the reason has more to do with a fear of being forced to buy one eventually and not having a choice vs a concern that there is something inherently bad about the concept.

Full disclosure, I don’t have an EV and wouldn’t want to be forced into buying one but I think the tech has some promise. A friend has a Tesla and is constantly extolling the virtues of it. They take trips between Jax and Indiana from time to time with no issue. On the other hand, hybrids and hydrogen vehicles have some advantages without the drawback of needing a charging station.

I'm in total agreement with Americus.. They put the cart before the horse and started pumping out the vehicles before the real infrastructure was created for them. Leaving the customer on the hook for over-priced pieces of [BLEEP]. Good idea, poorly executed..

Tesla has created the infrastructure, and it works extremely well.  The others were idiots.  I don't understand how the non-Tesla manufacturers could think they could pump out electric cars when the non-Tesla supercharger network was so bad.

---

Major DC car dealer sounds alarm over feds' EV push: 'Everyday Americans' are rejecting mandates
Car dealers sent a 'Voice of the Customer' letter to Biden saying customers aren't interested in EVs

A major auto dealer in the Washington, D.C. area sounded the alarm on customers' distaste or disinterest in electic vehicles, in spite of the Biden administration's subsidizing and encouragement of EV production and the looming internal-combustion-engine bans by more than a dozen states.

Paul LaRochelle, vice president of Sheehy Auto Stores – which has numerous dealerships from Hagerstown, Md., to Richmond, Va. – told FOX News it is not necessarily his own opinion or those of other dealers pushing back against the government, but the customers themselves.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/major-dc-c...g-mandates

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You know trouble is right around the corner when your best friend tells you to hold his beer!!

Major DC car dealer sounds alarm over feds' EV push: 'Everyday Americans' are rejecting mandates
Car dealers sent a 'Voice of the Customer' letter to Biden saying customers aren't interested in EVs

A major auto dealer in the Washington, D.C. area sounded the alarm on customers' distaste or disinterest in electic vehicles, in spite of the Biden administration's subsidizing and encouragement of EV production and the looming internal-combustion-engine bans by more than a dozen states.

Paul LaRochelle, vice president of Sheehy Auto Stores – which has numerous dealerships from Hagerstown, Md., to Richmond, Va. – told FOX News it is not necessarily his own opinion or those of other dealers pushing back against the government, but the customers themselves.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/major-dc-c...g-mandates

Not necessarily.  Maybe customers don't want the kind of EVs that auto dealers sell.  But...

EV sales hit new record in Q3 as Tesla market share dips (yahoo.com)

"According to automotive research firm Kelley Blue Book (KBB), US EV sales in the third quarter crossed 313,000, nearly a 50% increase from a year ago, and around 15,000 more than the 298,000 sold in Q2. Cox Automotive (KBB's parent company) said EV market share hit 7.9%, its highest ever level and up from the 6.1% recorded a year ago."

"Though Tesla’s market share is slipping, its overall sales volume is increasing — up 19.5% year over year and beating the industry’s overall growth rate of 16.3%, KBB said."

---

Car dealers hate electric vehicles because the manufacturers leave less margin for the dealer on electric vehicles.
Car dealers are not your friend, and anything they say about politics is usually the opposite of what is in the consumer's interest.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I don't mind EVs as an additional car for city driving. It still doesn't make much sense to me as an "environmental" option. Here's some of the reasons...

Mining and Rare Earth Materials:

• Intensive mining for lithium, cobalt, and nickel.
  
• High environmental costs: land degradation, water pollution.
  
• Labor concerns: human rights abuses, exploitative practices.
  

Environmental Impact of Battery Production:

• High energy use and carbon footprint in battery production.
  
• Significant water usage, contributing to water depletion in mining areas.
  
• Toxic waste and pollution from mining activities.
  

Weight and Energy Efficiency:

• Heavier weight due to battery packs.
  
• Increased tire and road wear.
  

Lifecycle Emissions and Manufacturing:

• Energy-intensive manufacturing process.
  
• Lifecycle emissions from production to disposal.
  
• Dependency on energy sources in manufacturing locations.
  

Energy Sources for Charging:

• Dependence on electricity grid, often powered by fossil fuels.
  
• Regional variations in the source of electricity (coal, natural gas, renewables).
  
• Grid strain and infrastructure challenges.
  

Recycling and Waste Management:

• Challenges in battery disposal and recycling.
  
• Inefficient recycling processes, leading to environmental concerns.
  
• Batteries ending up in landfills.
  

Socio-Economic and Ethical Considerations:

• Impact on local communities near mining areas.
  
• Geopolitical issues due to concentration of rare earth materials in certain regions.
  
• Ethical considerations in material sourcing and labor practices
  

Overall, while EVs offer significant benefits in reducing emissions during their operational phase, their overall environmental impact is complex and depends on various factors including the source of electricity, battery production, and end-of-life management. This impact is nuanced compared to the more straightforward impact of ICE vehicles, which primarily revolves around CO2 emissions during operation. As usual, I don't feel like we're operating with all the information we need to make an informed decision. EVs are unsustainable at this juncture. 

Should people buy them? If they want, sure. Should the government be pushing for them? Absolutely not. We're not ready. We don't have any of these questions really answered.

Those are all real concerns, but in most places for most people an EV still results in significantly less carbon emissions over its operational life.  If the manufacturing and recharging are both done entirely with coal fired power plants, the carbon benefits are questionable. As long as there's at least some nat gas or nuclear or renewable in the power mix, there are significant reductions in carbon emissions.

The other costs you mention, water, land use, etc., are local problems.  Climate is global, though.  Carbon emissions are the main concern for any serious environmentalist and it's not a close question.

Emissions output is not the only standard we need to measure. Local problems become global problems.

---

Car dealers hate electric vehicles because the manufacturers leave less margin for the dealer on electric vehicles.
Car dealers are not your friend, and anything they say about politics is usually the opposite of what is in the consumer's interest.

Also, because car dealerships represent the legacy auto makers (Tesla doesn't have dealerships), and the legacy auto makers have been left behind when it comes to EV design and manufacturing.  Hence, Ford, GM, etc. force too many EVs into a dealership system that doesn't know how to sell them and doesn't want them.  And of course, added to that is the fact that if, for example, you buy a Ford EV, or a GM EV, you don't have access to Tesla's charging system until 2025.  

The legacy auto makers could not have done a worse job planning their EV transition.  They announced this transition to EVs, and they did a horrible job of implementing it.  Did no one in GM's boardroom ask any questions about how people who own GM EVs would fare on an out of town road trip?  It's amazing how stupid they were.

---

Car dealers hate electric vehicles because the manufacturers leave less margin for the dealer on electric vehicles.
Car dealers are not your friend, and anything they say about politics is usually the opposite of what is in the consumer's interest.

Also, because car dealerships represent the legacy auto makers (Tesla doesn't have dealerships), and the legacy auto makers have been left behind when it comes to EV design and manufacturing.  Hence, Ford, GM, etc. force too many EVs into a dealership system that doesn't know how to sell them and doesn't want them.  And of course, added to that is the fact that if, for example, you buy a Ford EV, or a GM EV, you don't have access to Tesla's charging system until 2025.  

The legacy auto makers could not have done a worse job planning their EV transition.  They announced this transition to EVs, and they did a horrible job of implementing it.  Did no one in GM's boardroom ask any questions about how people who own GM EVs would fare on an out of town road trip?  It's amazing how stupid they were.

Perhaps because they were not ready to transition to EV’s yet?  They had it thrust upon them just as it is being shoved upon the consumer.  The manufacturers would have naturally transitioned to the next technological breakthrough when they were ready.  By mandating the change to an unproven technology this was predictable.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Those are all real concerns, but in most places for most people an EV still results in significantly less carbon emissions over its operational life.  If the manufacturing and recharging are both done entirely with coal fired power plants, the carbon benefits are questionable. As long as there's at least some nat gas or nuclear or renewable in the power mix, there are significant reductions in carbon emissions.

The other costs you mention, water, land use, etc., are local problems.  Climate is global, though.  Carbon emissions are the main concern for any serious environmentalist and it's not a close question.

Emissions output is not the only standard we need to measure. Local problems become global problems.

They also become political problems.

---

Also, because car dealerships represent the legacy auto makers (Tesla doesn't have dealerships), and the legacy auto makers have been left behind when it comes to EV design and manufacturing.  Hence, Ford, GM, etc. force too many EVs into a dealership system that doesn't know how to sell them and doesn't want them.  And of course, added to that is the fact that if, for example, you buy a Ford EV, or a GM EV, you don't have access to Tesla's charging system until 2025.  

The legacy auto makers could not have done a worse job planning their EV transition.  They announced this transition to EVs, and they did a horrible job of implementing it.  Did no one in GM's boardroom ask any questions about how people who own GM EVs would fare on an out of town road trip?  It's amazing how stupid they were.

Perhaps because they were not ready to transition to EV’s yet?  They had it thrust upon them just as it is being shoved upon the consumer.  The manufacturers would have naturally transitioned to the next technological breakthrough when they were ready.  By mandating the change to an unproven technology this was predictable.

It's not being shoved upon the consumer.  You are still free to buy whatever car you want.  And it's not unproven technology.  Electric vehicles have been around for decades.  

The fact is, Tesla has effectively executed their strategy.  Tesla built themselves thousands of reliable charging stations.  The legacy automakers failed to do that, so we read all these horror stories of people who rent non-Tesla EVs and have trouble finding charging stations.  I wouldn't buy a Ford or GM EV and try to take a road trip.

---