Hamilton will hopefully be able to get back to full strength this offseason.

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Regardless of the coordinator hire, I think that we need to switch back to a 4-3 base or just play 4-2-5 Nickel base with Antonio Johnson functioning as a WILL linebacker if it's a 2 WR set. We just don't have the DLine depth or beef upfront with enough depth to be effective to fill 3 starting spots and then have adequate backups. a 4-3 base of the below looks enticing to me:

RDE: Josh Allen
3T DT: RRH
NT: Davon Hamilton
LDE: Travon Walker

SLB: Devin Lloyd/Quarterman
MLB: Oluokun/Ventrell Miller
WLB: Muma/Antonio Johnson (nickel)

the talent fits the scheme and puts our best players on the field in a position to succeed; if we want to be multiple or throw a 3-4 look out there on 3rd down so Josh Allen can rush from a 2 point stance or move around like a chess piece that's absolutely fine. I just don't think this team has enough DT's or 3-4 linemen to effectively execute the scheme and we'd have to invest too much capital/resources to be barely adequate. If we switch to a 4-3 we can even cut some bloated contracts like Fatukasi etc.

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Regardless of the coordinator hire, I think that we need to switch back to a 4-3 base or just play 4-2-5 Nickel base with Antonio Johnson functioning as a WILL linebacker if it's a 2 WR set. We just don't have the DLine depth or beef upfront with enough depth to be effective to fill 3 starting spots and then have adequate backups. a 4-3 base of the below looks enticing to me:

RDE: Josh Allen
3T DT: RRH
NT: Davon Hamilton
LDE: Travon Walker

SLB: Devin Lloyd/Quarterman
MLB: Oluokun/Ventrell Miller
WLB: Muma/Antonio Johnson (nickel)

the talent fits the scheme and puts our best players on the field in a position to succeed; if we want to be multiple or throw a 3-4 look out there on 3rd down so Josh Allen can rush from a 2 point stance or move around like a chess piece that's absolutely fine. I just don't think this team has enough DT's or 3-4 linemen to effectively execute the scheme and we'd have to invest too much capital/resources to be barely adequate. If we switch to a 4-3 we can even cut some bloated contracts like Fatukasi etc.

Tons of teams are in 4-2-5 most of the time anyway - the base is basically just a sub package in today's NFL for many teams

None of that matters much to me as long as the Jags new DC knows how to use the talent available to him the best way he can. Hopefully he's afforded with another player adept at making QBs uncomfortable and schemes him in effectively. 

Getting the back seven to tackle much better than the Jags did down the stretch would go a long way as well. Not sure exactly how much of that was the staff's fault - but they are easier to fire than jettisoning 5 or 6 players in one offseason. A few of which could still develop nicely. 

In thread specific news, Wink is in play for the Jags:

https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1746236027943977198?s=20

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https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1746...77198?s=20

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Get Saban and Belichik

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Sir, you showed us your quality last week and passed your interview. Welcome aboard

Haha

It's smart.. eliminate competition.  I'm sure he'd be able to help our team any time we face Tennessee.  At least maybe we can hold up against the freaking run for an entire season finally for once.

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https://twitter.com/sean10baker/status/1...4Feig&s=19

Martindale in town on Tuesday and Wednesday for interview.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

https://twitter.com/E_Dilla/status/1746189721808572735

Weaver would have been good imo. It seems like teams are considering him for HC.

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

You have zero clue what the new DC will do with Walker.  Walker hasnt been great like you say but he has definitely improve a good bot and its nice to see. I think depends on what we do in the draft.  If we draft draft Verse or Turner in the 1st I think they move Walker down in base.  You think if they take one of these edge rushers in the 1st they should have him come off the bench instead of having all 3 on the field at the same time?  

 You have been wrong on this for a while and yes Hamilton played NT and 3 tech. Just because he was our best interior pass rusher last year means nothing lol, it's because we suck in that department.   Most lineman move around on the line.   Last year a interior pass rusher was a huge need even before Hamilton got injured.  Maybe you consider Hamilton a interior pass rusher, but he isnt, hes a NT, he was a 335 pound NT that can push the pocket and get in the QBs face at times.   Even if we brought in a other NT Hamilton isnt the guy i want at 3 tech and relying on him to put pressure on the QB in crucial situations, thats not who he is.  We need more than what he brings to the table even when 100%.  Now Matabuike is exactly what this team needs?  Lolol.  If Hamilton was this interior pass rusher as you say Matabuike wouldn't be such a huge need.

Holy hell, you are missing everything I'm saying. 

I'm saying that the 2023 Jags staff were counting on Hamilton to be the primary guy that disprupts the pocket. 

I'm not saying he's a classic 5 tech Hargrave type. 

The closest thing they had to that was RRH and they likely knew he was no where near being a consistent disruptive force. 
But they did see what David Hamilton did in 2022 playing 0 tech, 5 tech and 3 tech at times and they paid him handsomely to keep doing it. 

This 2023 defense missed the penetration Hamilton achieved in 2022 immensely. 

Of course I still want them to sign a 5 tech type to really get after QBs from the inside, I've started multiple threads about it for chrissakes, but it doesn't change the fact that the Jags brass were counting on disruption from DH, it didn't happen, and it hurt the defense.

Jags staff also think Fortner is s good Center and they thought Bartch was a good guard.  You have to question what this staff and front office thinks, there is a good chance it's not accurate

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Holy hell, you are missing everything I'm saying. 

I'm saying that the 2023 Jags staff were counting on Hamilton to be the primary guy that disprupts the pocket. 

I'm not saying he's a classic 5 tech Hargrave type. 

The closest thing they had to that was RRH and they likely knew he was no where near being a consistent disruptive force. 
But they did see what David Hamilton did in 2022 playing 0 tech, 5 tech and 3 tech at times and they paid him handsomely to keep doing it. 

This 2023 defense missed the penetration Hamilton achieved in 2022 immensely. 

Of course I still want them to sign a 5 tech type to really get after QBs from the inside, I've started multiple threads about it for chrissakes, but it doesn't change the fact that the Jags brass were counting on disruption from DH, it didn't happen, and it hurt the defense.

Jags staff also think Fortner is s good Center and they thought Bartch was a good guard.  You have to question what this staff and front office thinks, there is a good chance it's not accurate

I am pretty sure none of us really know what they think.  We get coach speak.  If a guy really sucked they would never be quoted saying that.  Yea, quite the motivational technique... LOL

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Holy hell, you are missing everything I'm saying. 

I'm saying that the 2023 Jags staff were counting on Hamilton to be the primary guy that disprupts the pocket. 

I'm not saying he's a classic 5 tech Hargrave type. 

The closest thing they had to that was RRH and they likely knew he was no where near being a consistent disruptive force. 
But they did see what David Hamilton did in 2022 playing 0 tech, 5 tech and 3 tech at times and they paid him handsomely to keep doing it. 

This 2023 defense missed the penetration Hamilton achieved in 2022 immensely. 

Of course I still want them to sign a 5 tech type to really get after QBs from the inside, I've started multiple threads about it for chrissakes, but it doesn't change the fact that the Jags brass were counting on disruption from DH, it didn't happen, and it hurt the defense.

Jags staff also think Fortner is s good Center and they thought Bartch was a good guard.  You have to question what this staff and front office thinks, there is a good chance it's not accurate

You really do believe the stripper likes you, don't you.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Jags staff also think Fortner is s good Center and they thought Bartch was a good guard.  You have to question what this staff and front office thinks, there is a good chance it's not accurate

I am pretty sure none of us really know what they think.  We get coach speak.  If a guy really sucked they would never be quoted saying that.  Yea, quite the motivational technique... LOL

Doug has repeatedly said Trevor needs to play better and has thrown him under the bus multiple times. The also did nothing last year and went with Fortner and Bartch, so it's pretty clear they felt very comfortable with those 2 out there and if they just threw then out there knowing they suck then that's a firing offense. 

The media even knew more about this oline than our own team, had them the 31st ranked oline before the season and they finished as the 31st ranked oline. Most fans also knew the oline sucked yet the staff and front office was perfectly fine with it.  Passed on some really good olineman for bums.  Everyone knew there was no pass rush behind the starters except this staff and front office.   Had multiple opportunities to add a vet and didn't

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I am pretty sure none of us really know what they think.  We get coach speak.  If a guy really sucked they would never be quoted saying that.  Yea, quite the motivational technique... LOL

Doug has repeatedly said Trevor needs to play better and has thrown him under the bus multiple times. The also did nothing last year and went with Fortner and Bartch, so it's pretty clear they felt very comfortable with those 2 out there and if they just threw then out there knowing they suck then that's a firing offense. 

The media even knew more about this oline than our own team, had them the 31st ranked oline before the season and they finished as the 31st ranked oline. Most fans also knew the oline sucked yet the staff and front office was perfectly fine with it.  Passed on some really good olineman for bums.  Everyone knew there was no pass rush behind the starters except this staff and front office.   Had multiple opportunities to add a vet and didn't

No, going with Fortner and Bartch is not a firing offense.  It's a mistake.   If you are their supervisor, which of course Khan is, then you have a meeting with them, ask them why they thought they could go with those two guys, why were they wrong, and what are they going to do about it.  But no, you don't clean house after having the first back-to-back winning seasons in 18 years.

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Doug has repeatedly said Trevor needs to play better and has thrown him under the bus multiple times. The also did nothing last year and went with Fortner and Bartch, so it's pretty clear they felt very comfortable with those 2 out there and if they just threw then out there knowing they suck then that's a firing offense. 

The media even knew more about this oline than our own team, had them the 31st ranked oline before the season and they finished as the 31st ranked oline. Most fans also knew the oline sucked yet the staff and front office was perfectly fine with it.  Passed on some really good olineman for bums.  Everyone knew there was no pass rush behind the starters except this staff and front office.   Had multiple opportunities to add a vet and didn't

No, going with Fortner and Bartch is not a firing offense.  It's a mistake.   If you are their supervisor, which of course Khan is, then you have a meeting with them, ask them why they thought they could go with those two guys, why were they wrong, and what are they going to do about it.  But no, you don't clean house after having the first back-to-back winning seasons in 18 years.

Look Fat, if the rookie center doesn't play gooder by the end of his first season you fire the guy that drafted him. A 3rd rounder busting out will NOT be tolerated.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

No, going with Fortner and Bartch is not a firing offense.  It's a mistake.   If you are their supervisor, which of course Khan is, then you have a meeting with them, ask them why they thought they could go with those two guys, why were they wrong, and what are they going to do about it.  But no, you don't clean house after having the first back-to-back winning seasons in 18 years.

Look Fat, if the rookie center doesn't play gooder by the end of his first season you fire the guy that drafted him. A 3rd rounder busting out will NOT be tolerated.

That is an interesting concept. You have an example of a NFL team that does that?  I mean fire their GM and coach after they make a mistake in the draft?  I can't, because every draft GM/HC's make mistakes on players or the players just don't perform the way projected at the professional level.  Besides a team would have a new set each year if that was the case.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Doug has repeatedly said Trevor needs to play better and has thrown him under the bus multiple times. The also did nothing last year and went with Fortner and Bartch, so it's pretty clear they felt very comfortable with those 2 out there and if they just threw then out there knowing they suck then that's a firing offense. 

The media even knew more about this oline than our own team, had them the 31st ranked oline before the season and they finished as the 31st ranked oline. Most fans also knew the oline sucked yet the staff and front office was perfectly fine with it.  Passed on some really good olineman for bums.  Everyone knew there was no pass rush behind the starters except this staff and front office.   Had multiple opportunities to add a vet and didn't

No, going with Fortner and Bartch is not a firing offense.  It's a mistake.   If you are their supervisor, which of course Khan is, then you have a meeting with them, ask them why they thought they could go with those two guys, why were they wrong, and what are they going to do about it.  But no, you don't clean house after having the first back-to-back winning seasons in 18 years.

That's just 1 of many mistakes.  What about the drafting, what about the interior dline, what about the pass rush behind Allen and Walker, what about the play calling?  They just fired Caldwell.  Why fire Caldwell?  I agree with the firing but maybe he just made a few bad calls and doesn't have the talent on the interior dline. Caldwell just mad a few mistakes on play calling that's all so why fire him? If we would of kept the DC you would have thought it's the right decision, if we fire him you think it's the right decision lol

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No, going with Fortner and Bartch is not a firing offense.  It's a mistake.   If you are their supervisor, which of course Khan is, then you have a meeting with them, ask them why they thought they could go with those two guys, why were they wrong, and what are they going to do about it.  But no, you don't clean house after having the first back-to-back winning seasons in 18 years.

That's just 1 of many mistakes.  What about the drafting, what about the interior dline, what about the pass rush behind Allen and Walker, what about the play calling?  They just fired Caldwell.  Why fire Caldwell?  I agree with the firing but maybe he just made a few bad calls and doesn't have the talent on the interior dline. Caldwell just mad a few mistakes on play calling that's all so why fire him?  If we would of kept the DC you would have thought it's the right decision, if we fire him you think it's the right decision lol

I don't know if firing Caldwell was the right decision.  I can only guess at the reason.  I know it wasn't because he "made a few mistakes on play calling."  

I do know that Pederson sees the entirety of what Caldwell is doing with that defense, every hour of every day, and we don't.  We only see what happens during the game.

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No, going with Fortner and Bartch is not a firing offense.  It's a mistake.   If you are their supervisor, which of course Khan is, then you have a meeting with them, ask them why they thought they could go with those two guys, why were they wrong, and what are they going to do about it.  But no, you don't clean house after having the first back-to-back winning seasons in 18 years.

That's just 1 of many mistakes.  What about the drafting, what about the interior dline, what about the pass rush behind Allen and Walker, what about the play calling?  They just fired Caldwell.  Why fire Caldwell?  I agree with the firing but maybe he just made a few bad calls and doesn't have the talent on the interior dline. Caldwell just mad a few mistakes on play calling that's all so why fire him?  If we would of kept the DC you would have thought it's the right decision, if we fire him you think it's the right decision lol

I don’t think it was just defensive performance down the stretch. You add in the comment from Wingard about guys “not playing assignment football all year” and it sounds like he was allowing guys to get away with playing undisciplined.  That would solely be his responsibility to fix, if we’re taking Wingard’s comments at face value.

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Look Fat, if the rookie center doesn't play gooder by the end of his first season you fire the guy that drafted him. A 3rd rounder busting out will NOT be tolerated.

That is an interesting concept. You have an example of a NFL team that does that?  I mean fire their GM and coach after they make a mistake in the draft?  I can't, because every draft GM/HC's make mistakes on players or the players just don't perform the way projected at the professional level.  Besides a team would have a new set each year if that was the case.

It’s not the making of the mistake that is intolerable, it’s the not recognizing the mistake and then making the effort to correct that is.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

That's just 1 of many mistakes.  What about the drafting, what about the interior dline, what about the pass rush behind Allen and Walker, what about the play calling?  They just fired Caldwell.  Why fire Caldwell?  I agree with the firing but maybe he just made a few bad calls and doesn't have the talent on the interior dline. Caldwell just mad a few mistakes on play calling that's all so why fire him?  If we would of kept the DC you would have thought it's the right decision, if we fire him you think it's the right decision lol

I don't know if firing Caldwell was the right decision.  I can only guess at the reason.  I know it wasn't because he "made a few mistakes on play calling."  

I do know that Pederson sees the entirety of what Caldwell is doing with that defense, every hour of every day, and we don't.  We only see what happens during the game.

Just because he fired Mike doesn't mean it was the right decision.  It could be just another mistake, or even possibly a scapegoat. He had to do something because he knew they failed.

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That is an interesting concept. You have an example of a NFL team that does that?  I mean fire their GM and coach after they make a mistake in the draft?  I can't, because every draft GM/HC's make mistakes on players or the players just don't perform the way projected at the professional level.  Besides a team would have a new set each year if that was the case.

It’s not the making of the mistake that is intolerable, it’s the not recognizing the mistake and then making the effort to correct that is.

Exactly, nobody even knows if we want to bring in a new starter at C.  This staff has been very high on Fortner, nobody sees him at practice (trying not to laugh) As The Real Marty says. They may feel like Fortner can change things around in year 3 and improve.

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I don't know if firing Caldwell was the right decision.  I can only guess at the reason.  I know it wasn't because he "made a few mistakes on play calling."  

I do know that Pederson sees the entirety of what Caldwell is doing with that defense, every hour of every day, and we don't.  We only see what happens during the game.

Just because he fired Mike doesn't mean it was the right decision.  It could be just another mistake, or even possibly a scapegoat. He had to do something because he knew they failed.

I haven't said anything that contradicts any of that.  We did not see the bulk of what Caldwell did as a DC.  Pederson saw everything.  So, based on how the defense performed during the last half of the season, how can we argue with the firing?

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