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Bullseye · 04-06-2017, 07:49 AM

Quote:If the Browns and 49ers are sniffing for QB at 12ish, we might even be able to trade back to 8, then trade back again to 12 and really stack up.

Grab Lamp at 12, go ape in rounds 2/3/4

Could you elaborate on this?

Do you anticipate the 49ers trading back in this scenario?

I could see why Cleveland might trade up from 12, though I don't see what good trading up to 8 would do them, unless you think Buffalo is in play for a QB.

Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!

Caldrac · 04-06-2017, 08:00 AM

Quote:The Panthers entire coaching staff was at Fournette's workout, and it's been reported that they've begun preliminary talks with the 49ers on a potential trade. Realizing he'd lose Fournette anyways, I can see Caldwell giving the Panthers a call. Afterall, a move from #8 to #4 would cost the Panthers much less than a move from #8 to #2,

A few questions need to be answered here...

Do we want to trade down vs staying at #4 without Fournette as an option? If we stay put we're guaranteed Jonathan Allen or Solomon Thomas... or maybe both if the Bears take Jamal Adams after his 4.33 pro day 40, or Hooker as Mel Kiper is predicting.

If we stay put and the Bears take Allen, do the Jaguars even want Solomon Thomas after not even inviting him in for a visit?

If we trade down, per the charts we're looking at getting the #8 along with the Panthers pick at the end of round two, #64 overall, their early 4th round pick, #115 overall, and possibly an additional late round pick... perhaps their 6th round pick. The Jaguars would end up with the #8, #35, #62, #68, #110 and #115 in the top four rounds, plus their 5th round pick, #148, and then two picks in round six and two picks in round seven.

The Panthers have an early 2nd round pick as well, but the Jaguars would have to return about 100 points. Also, you know the Panthers will have to spend that early pick to get to #2, so being able to keep it might be the bait the Jaguars can use to get them to bite.

Who might the Jaguars take with those picks?

At #8 I'm thinking OJ Howard suddenly makes tons of sense, although so would McCaffery who may ultimately turn out to be even better than Fournette. They might even be able to still get Allen or Lattimore at #8, or they can get their QB... Watson?

At #62 the Jaguars may be able to get their QB. Nathan Peterman, who has visited, just might be there and I'm really loving everything I read about him. In the most recent article on the front page there's a quip about Peterman...

*Kiper called Pittsburgh quarterback Nate Peterman, who played locally at Bartram Trail High School in Jacksonville, perhaps the quarterback in the ’17 draft who can play the quickest. “From a mental standpoint and knowing the game, I think he gets an edge,” Kiper said. …

Fortunately the pick is just ahead of the Browns and 49ers who may still be looking to draft a QB. Davis Webb might be there as well. Aside from QB, the #62 spot might be an ideal spot for that edge rusher they recently looked at, Tarrell Basham.

At #115 with their 2nd early 4th round pick we could still find great value at CB. And finally with the 6th round pick we can add to our OL depth.

Thoughts?

My thoughts would be with the trade breaking down the way you have it:

#8 - Derek Barnett - DE - Tennessee

#35 - Dan Feeney - G - Indiana

#62 - Raekwon McMillan - ILB - Ohio State

#68 - Dion Dawkins - G/T - Temple

#110 - Bucky Hodges - TE - Virginia Tech

#115 - Jerod Evans - QB - Virginia Tech

With the trade down we're still getting a solid and productive edge rusher in Barnett. Feeney is a starter who instantly pushes for the left or right starting job. McMillan is a solid ILB who could eventually replace Paul and that should leave Jack and Smith on the outside where they can better utilize their speed.

Dawkins has the potential to play inside or outside on the line and could push Parnell for his job. Hodges is a solid pass catching TE with a good frame to grow into and develop run blocking wise just like Lewis did when he came out of the UCLA. And Evans is a solid QB prospect that should challenge Henne and Allen for a roster spot. Had a solid year in 2016 and honestly reminds me of David Garrard a little bit.

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Achilles · 04-06-2017, 08:22 AM

Quote:My thoughts would be with the trade breaking down the way you have it:

#8 - Derek Barnett - DE - Tennessee
#35 - Dan Feeney - G - Indiana
#62 - Raekwon McMillan - ILB - Ohio State
#68 - Dion Dawkins - G/T - Temple
#110 - Bucky Hodges - TE - Virginia Tech
#115 - Jerod Evans - QB - Virginia Tech

With the trade down we're still getting a solid and productive edge rusher in Barnett. Feeney is a starter who instantly pushes for the left or right starting job. McMillan is a solid ILB who could eventually replace Paul and that should leave Jack and Smith on the outside where they can better utilize their speed.

Dawkins has the potential to play inside or outside on the line and could push Parnell for his job. Hodges is a solid pass catching TE with a good frame to grow into and develop run blocking wise just like Lewis did when he came out of the UCLA. And Evans is a solid QB prospect that should challenge Henne and Allen for a roster spot. Had a solid year in 2016 and honestly reminds me of David Garrard a little bit.

If Barnett is our first round pick I'll vomit.

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Caldrac · 04-06-2017, 08:32 AM

Quote:If Barnett is our first round pick I'll vomit.

That's fine. I like the pick. He's been nothing but productive off the edge and got better each and every year for the Volunteers. I like what I see on the stat sheet and on his highlight reels. He's a better football player than an athlete running around in shorts and no pads.

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

**Jags02** · 04-06-2017, 08:39 AM

Quote:First of all, if the Panthers want him so much then they need to give us their 1st pick in round 2 (#40). Forget about the other picks. You are right that they'd have to part with much more in dealing with S.F. so they'd still be better off dealing with the Jaguars. If Carolina refuses, then the Jags should either stay put and either take Allen or Fournette or try to deal with the Browns. If the Panthers do agree to this deal, I would go with the following:

Rd. 1 (8) - O.J. Howard

Rd. 2 (35)- Dan Feeney

Rd. 2 (40)- Curtis Samuel

Rd. 3 - Jordan Willis/Derek Rivers/Dawuane Smoot- Best pass rusher available

Rd. 4 - Adam Bisnowaty

I skipped rounds 5-7 because I do believe this team has enough overall young talent that it will be tough for late round picks to make the team. I'd probably try to give up some of these to move up for a guy that they really like in rounds 3 or 4.

My scenerio, other than round 3, was all Offense for the obvious reasons. The offensive line adds 1 immediate starter and a guy who has the ability to immediately provide depth at right tackle or guard. Samuel is a guy I'm really starting to like. He would be an excellent complement to Ivory, who will remain the starter unless his fumbling continues to be a problem. He could also be used in the slot where his explosiveness would create problems for whatever defense they play.

No quarterback was taken. This is Bortles last shot and it's obvious the coaching staff plans to go with him. If he fails, this will be their 1st pick in 2018. With so much talent in this draft through round 4, why waste a pick in rounds 2-4 on a guy who is extremely unlikely to ever become their franchise q.b. Nathan Peterman is one of the guys who is being hyped as a possible round 2/3 sleeper, but his arm strength is a big problem and I just can't see him becoming the guy. Even someone like Mahomes, should he be available in round 2, would be too risky to take when they could fill their biggest need with a reliable plug and play guy like Feeney or Dawkins.

Ok, let me re-think this in terms of getting their early 2nd. I'm now thinking...

Jaguars get the #8 and the #40 overall
Panthers get the #4, the #148 in round five, and our 2018 fourth round pick.

This leaves the Jaguars with the #8, #35, #40. #69, #110, #187, #222 and #240.

So... <--yes, this is a word

8. DT Jonathan Allen
35. TE David Njoku
40. G Dion Dawkins
68, RB Brian Hill
110. NB Corn Elder
187. NT Stevie Tu'ikolovatu
222. FB Freddie Stevenson
240. QB Seth Russell

'02

**Jags02** · 04-06-2017, 08:43 AM

Quote:My thoughts would be with the trade breaking down the way you have it:

#8 - Derek Barnett - DE - Tennessee

#35 - Dan Feeney - G - Indiana

#62 - Raekwon McMillan - ILB - Ohio State

#68 - Dion Dawkins - G/T - Temple

#110 - Bucky Hodges - TE - Virginia Tech

#115 - Jerod Evans - QB - Virginia Tech

With the trade down we're still getting a solid and productive edge rusher in Barnett. Feeney is a starter who instantly pushes for the left or right starting job. McMillan is a solid ILB who could eventually replace Paul and that should leave Jack and Smith on the outside where they can better utilize their speed.

Dawkins has the potential to play inside or outside on the line and could push Parnell for his job. Hodges is a solid pass catching TE with a good frame to grow into and develop run blocking wise just like Lewis did when he came out of the UCLA. And Evans is a solid QB prospect that should challenge Henne and Allen for a roster spot. Had a solid year in 2016 and honestly reminds me of David Garrard a little bit.

It's interesting we took the same play with the extra pick, only I took Dawkins at 40 and you took him at 68. That said, there's no way he gets anywhere near the 60s. If I had something to use for a guarantee, I'd guarantee that Dawkins goes top 50.

As for Barnett... no way over Jonathan Allen.

'02

Caldrac · 04-06-2017, 08:46 AM

Quote:It's interesting we took the same play with the extra pick, only I took Dawkins at 40 and you took him at 68. That said, there's no way he gets anywhere near the 60s. If I had something to use for a guarantee, I'd guarantee that Dawkins goes top 50.

He might. I think it depends on where Cam Robinson and Antonio Garcia end up going first in this draft. It's possible both of those players fall into the second round which could either drop him a few spots or increase his value on other team's draft boards.

Taylor Moton is another guy that should go before him.

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Bullseye · 04-06-2017, 08:46 AM

Quote:The Panthers entire coaching staff was at Fournette's workout, and it's been reported that they've begun preliminary talks with the 49ers on a potential trade. Realizing he'd lose Fournette anyways, I can see Caldwell giving the Panthers a call. Afterall, a move from #8 to #4 would cost the Panthers much less than a move from #8 to #2,

A few questions need to be answered here...

Do we want to trade down vs staying at #4 without Fournette as an option? If we stay put we're guaranteed Jonathan Allen or Solomon Thomas... or maybe both if the Bears take Jamal Adams after his 4.33 pro day 40, or Hooker as Mel Kiper is predicting.

If we stay put and the Bears take Allen, do the Jaguars even want Solomon Thomas after not even inviting him in for a visit?

If we trade down, per the charts we're looking at getting the #8 along with the Panthers pick at the end of round two, #64 overall, their early 4th round pick, #115 overall, and possibly an additional late round pick... perhaps their 6th round pick. The Jaguars would end up with the #8, #35, #62, #68, #110 and #115 in the top four rounds, plus their 5th round pick, #148, and then two picks in round six and two picks in round seven.

The Panthers have an early 2nd round pick as well, but the Jaguars would have to return about 100 points. Also, you know the Panthers will have to spend that early pick to get to #2, so being able to keep it might be the bait the Jaguars can use to get them to bite.

Who might the Jaguars take with those picks?

At #8 I'm thinking OJ Howard suddenly makes tons of sense, although so would McCaffery who may ultimately turn out to be even better than Fournette. They might even be able to still get Allen or Lattimore at #8, or they can get their QB... Watson?

At #62 the Jaguars may be able to get their QB. Nathan Peterman, who has visited, just might be there and I'm really loving everything I read about him. In the most recent article on the front page there's a quip about Peterman...

*Kiper called Pittsburgh quarterback Nate Peterman, who played locally at Bartram Trail High School in Jacksonville, perhaps the quarterback in the ’17 draft who can play the quickest. “From a mental standpoint and knowing the game, I think he gets an edge,” Kiper said. …

Fortunately the pick is just ahead of the Browns and 49ers who may still be looking to draft a QB. Davis Webb might be there as well. Aside from QB, the #62 spot might be an ideal spot for that edge rusher they recently looked at, Tarrell Basham.

At #115 with their 2nd early 4th round pick we could still find great value at CB. And finally with the 6th round pick we can add to our OL depth.

Thoughts?

I don't know if I pull off this trade pre draft.

1. There is always the possibility the Panthers and 49ers don't pull off that trade and Fournette slides to us.

2. Perhaps Cleveland (or some other team) gives us a better deal to move down. Heck, Cleveland and the Jets may be in the market for the same QB. We could move down to 6, get an extra pick, and still end up with Fournette, or end up with that high second round pick of Cleveland's and another pick or two and have more options.

I like the idea of reaping some benefit out of possibly losing our targeted player as opposed to losing him and getting nothing, especially considering this is a deep draft class at the marquee positions of DE and CB, as well as TE. But I don't do anything that limits our options unnecessarily.

That said, every year we kick around trade down scenarios, and they never come to fruition.

This team has traded down in the first round once in its history-2007.

Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!

KYjaggy · 04-06-2017, 10:36 AM

Quote:That's fine. I like the pick. He's been nothing but productive off the edge and got better each and every year for the Volunteers. I like what I see on the stat sheet and on his highlight reels. He's a better football player than an athlete running around in shorts and no pads.

Unfortunately the NFL is littered with players that fit this description and didn't live up to expectations. I don't hate Barnett, but if he's taken before the 20s or so I think that team is going to ultimately wind up wishing they took someone else.

I do like the rest of that mock quite a bit, except I still don't think we take a QB late. It doesn't make sense to me that we would give up on Allen already, and it makes even less sense to have Bortles being backed up by two day 3 QBs who haven't taken a single NFL snap. The FO saying they want to push Blake and that there isn't a mandate for him to start would be total [BAD WORD REMOVED] if that was the depth chart.

**Jags02** · 04-06-2017, 10:56 AM

Quote:He might. I think it depends on where Cam Robinson and Antonio Garcia end up going first in this draft. It's possible both of those players fall into the second round which could either drop him a few spots or increase his value on other team's draft boards.

Taylor Moton is another guy that should go before him.

I can see Antonio Garcia at #68, but not Dawkins.

'02

ukjag34 · 04-06-2017, 11:43 AM

To me i see the panthers looking to trade up for solomon thomas rather than fournette.

The rb draft is deep and the panthers let norman go with the belief that a d line that disrupts is more important than a secondary. That failed last year. They have 2 class big guys in short and lotulelei but their edge guys are peppers johnson and addison which is a pretty old set of players.

If the panthers have the two pick they guarantee themself garrett if the browns love a qb or thomas. Win win.

In terms of jags trades i just dont see any reason for anyone to trade unless chicago take a qb. Each team has multiple good options at their pick that would fill a need. The only reason for anyone to trade past the jags is if the bears take a qb and we offer the same deal as the titans below us for an extra pick.

I believe this plus due diligence is the reason we have brought watson in. Let people think me might take a qb and the phone may ring

Kane · 04-06-2017, 12:17 PM

Quote:I'm not trading away number 4 when I got a chance to get a back compared to Bo Jackson and Adrian Peterson.

Just not happening.

I'm sorry....

Fournette is being compared to Bo and AP?

By Whom?

Kane · 04-06-2017, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Ok, let me re-think this in terms of getting their early 2nd. I'm now thinking...

Jaguars get the #8 and the #40 overall

Panthers get the #4, the #148 in round five, and our 2018 fourth round pick.

This leaves the Jaguars with the #8, #35, #40. #69, #110, #187, #222 and #240.

So... <--yes, this is a word

8. DT Jonathan Allen

35. TE David Njoku

40. G Dion Dawkins

68, RB Brian Hill

110. NB Corn Elder

187. NT Stevie Tu'ikolovatu

222. FB Freddie Stevenson

240. QB Seth Russell

Love this turn out.

Allen at 8 is a steal imo. IDK why so many people have him sliding.

Njoku is getting a lot of love lately. If he's there at 35, yes.

And grabbing a mid round RB and a FB late after adding interior linemen is a beautiful plan.

Couple PS guys late and we're now drafting like a team that should be able to win.

Teal Time Radio · 04-06-2017, 12:21 PM

Quote:I'm not trading away number 4 when I got a chance to get a back compared to Bo Jackson and Adrian Peterson.

Just not happening.

Accept he is nothing of the two.

Bleeding Teal since 1995. The Icon Teal Time Radio aka ctjags

#Gojags

Treestone Ice · 04-06-2017, 12:23 PM

Quote:Accept he is nothing of the two.

I can except that.

Kane · 04-06-2017, 12:27 PM

Quote:Accept he is nothing of the two.

I googled...

LaVar arrington... a mediocre lineback turned mediocre draft analyst... used the Bo comp "He looks like Bo"

Bucky Brooks said "best rusher since AP" and similar physically

But I don't see the vision or the pass catching ability.

I hate LF at 4... hate hate hate it.

But if thats where DC and TC take us... that's where we'll be... I won't piss and moan too much about it.

But the idea that we need some superstar RB to get us to where we need to be is silly.

The only pick I'd dislike more than LF at 4 would probably be Watson.

Kane · 04-06-2017, 12:28 PM

Quote:I can except that.

Can you be more pacific?

J-Mizzal · 04-06-2017, 12:43 PM

At 8, Howard and Allen would be good picks

GlockBortles · 04-06-2017, 12:49 PM

I really dont think Carolina would trade with us for fournette, Id get the feeling they would think we want him and move ahead of us. But who knows, thats really all a matter what info is exchanged amongst GMs. I have no idea how those phone calls go.

Teal Time Radio · 04-06-2017, 12:57 PM

Quote:I googled...

LaVar arrington... a mediocre lineback turned mediocre draft analyst... used the Bo comp "He looks like Bo"

Bucky Brooks said "best rusher since AP" and similar physically

But I don't see the vision or the pass catching ability.

I hate LF at 4... hate hate hate it.

But if thats where DC and TC take us... that's where we'll be... I won't [BAD WORD REMOVED] and moan too much about it.

But the idea that we need some superstar RB to get us to where we need to be is silly.

The only pick I'd dislike more than LF at 4 would probably be Watson.

And that is where we will disagree. Who was Clemson prior to Watson? That is what this playoff system does.

Gives players who lead teams that come from no where a chance.

Cause let's face it. Does Clemson get the national championship game once let alone twice with no playoff system?

Absolutely not. But yet won. Cause deserved it.

People talk about Watson like he is a joke. But your telling me. With Three of the top NFL receivers.

Watson can't shine? With a qb that can take it to the house. They would stack the box? And if they did. Watson would make um pay.

Watson is being known as the most Clutch qb since Brady. Yet it would make ya puke. Winning games.

Bayless has compared Watson to Prescott. Yet, ya rather have Blake then Prescott?

Others have said he is Johnny Football without the baggage. Yet still hate on the guy. Who is successful and wins.

We need to win. We need a winning culture and the city deserves to win. And our die hard fan base.

Bleeding Teal since 1995. The Icon Teal Time Radio aka ctjags

#Gojags