Look, the only people we can trust with guns are cops. So line up and hand 'em over.

If only more black people owned more guns, then pigs would never kill them.


If only Alton Sterling and Philando Castillo in Minnesota had a gun... oh wait...

---

[BAD WORD REMOVED] poor excuse. There are laws and punishments for the above crimes. Last time I checked death by execution wasn't one of them.

You are absolutely right. But he has a point as well. 

 

We have several guns. My husband has a concealed carry permit, I do not. So if I go somewhere and conceal carry and get caught I absolutely deserve to be punished for breaking the law. I don't deserve to die for it at all. Even if I pull on a cop I don't deserve to die. I deserve to be shot to subdue maybe, but not die. But in this day and age this is what is happening more and more and people need to pay attention and realize their actions bear consequences. This is why I don't conceal carry. If I get caught it's my own dang fault for breaking the law. I think that is the general point realorpat was going for.

---

There was a clearer video of the shooting that was probably within 10 feet of the Sterling shooting. It gives at least a better depiction of what happened, and clearly, he was doing something with his right arm. It's still obscured because he's up against the car, but you can see his shoulder moving frantically as if he's reaching for something at his side. If he was indeed reaching into his pocket, that makes the reaction more understandable.


Keep in mind, Sterling was a convicted felon on probation. He shouldn't have had a gun to begin with. The police were responding to a report of a man matching his description threatening someone with a gun outside of the store.

According to the shop keeper it wasn't even him who was threatening people with a gun.

---

Are you saying 2 trained cops who were on top of this man had no other recourse when he made a motion towards his pocket than to shoot him?

 

I don't care how trained you are its hard to control a body part you don't have access to because its under something. in this case a vehicle.  Go lay like he was laying your car with your right arm under the car free and a water gun in your pocket.  Then get two people to try and control you.  See how easy it is to get to the water gun.

---

Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good

• On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  
• Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  
• Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
  

You are absolutely right. But he has a point as well. 

 

We have several guns. My husband has a concealed carry permit, I do not. So if I go somewhere and conceal carry and get caught I absolutely deserve to be punished for breaking the law. I don't deserve to die for it at all. Even if I pull on a cop I don't deserve to die. I deserve to be shot to subdue maybe, but not die. But in this day and age this is what is happening more and more and people need to pay attention and realize their actions bear consequences. This is why I don't conceal carry. If I get caught it's my own dang fault for breaking the law. I think that is the general point realorpat was going for.

Basically yes.

---

Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good

• On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  
• Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  
• Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
  

Not really an excuse. It's a fact. Had he been a convicted felon with a gun who didn't allegedly threaten someone with a gun (he shouldn't have had to begin with), and not resisted arrest when approached by police, he'd still be alive today in all likelihood. He wasn't just shot for having a gun.

Really? Tell that to the guy in Minnesota.

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Honestly, though he used inflammatory language, there are some who are going to refuse to accept that this was murder. 5 shots close range? There's at least two videos out that show the perp subdued. It didn't take 5 shots. This has been an ongoing problem before it was so easy to record and it fell on deaf ears. Now in am instance where we have a recording, the result is still the same. Yes, he was running a criminal enterprise, albeit non violent. The gun in his possession was probably for the violent criminals who might try and take advantage of the fact he is running an illegal business, not for cops. The same as a legal store owner might have a gun. There are plenty of other instances where non violent offenders are apprehended without death occurring, but this particular storyline keeps being rehashed and swept under the rug. There's less evidence of any wrong doing in the Robinson car in the pond situation with more skepticism being rendered on all accounts, but in this case we need more facts.


My mom worked for JSO for 30 years. I haven't known a bad cop. I've had negative interactions, certainly been profiled, but not enough to condemn them. They are there though, and the tough job good cops have are further complicated by the blind eye turned to bad cops. At this point, the frustration you are seeing from TJ comes from the fact that it's not a matter of how many videos before everyone gets it, but that no matter how explicit it will always be the fault of the perp.

 

None of the videos I've seen show him subdued completely.  They were wrestling with him, and in the best angle I've seen, his right arm was anything but subdued. 

 

The non-violent offender you're referring to was a convicted felon in possession of a firearm.  The police were responding to a call indicating someone matching the description of Sterling was brandishing that weapon, threatening someone in the parking lot outside of the store.  When they arrived and approached him, he resisted them, including fighting through being tasered.  When they wrestled him to the ground, he did attempt to do something with his right arm that appeared to be at a minimum, reaching for that pocket. 

 

 

The number of shots fired is irrelevant.  You don't know how many shots it would take to diminish the threat, and if you're the one pulling the trigger, your thought after every pull isn't "was that the one that ended this?"  When a law enforcement officer draws and fires a weapon, they're not shooting to injure. 

 

Had Sterling complied from the start, he'd still more than likely still be alive today, albeit in a cell.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Maybe people will take your argument more seriously if you stopped referring to them as pigs.

You're mistaking me for someone who cares. At this point, I don't.

---

None of the videos I've seen show him subdued completely. They were wrestling with him, and in the best angle I've seen, his right arm was anything but subdued.


The non-violent offender you're referring to was a convicted felon in possession of a firearm. The police were responding to a call indicating someone matching the description of Sterling was brandishing that weapon, threatening someone in the parking lot outside of the store. When they arrived and approached him, he resisted them, including fighting through being tasered. When they wrestled him to the ground, he did attempt to do something with his right arm that appeared to be at a minimum, reaching for that pocket.



The number of shots fired is irrelevant. You don't know how many shots it would take to diminish the threat, and if you're the one pulling the trigger, your thought after every pull isn't "was that the one that ended this?" When a law enforcement officer draws and fires a weapon, they're not shooting to injure.


Had Sterling complied from the start, he'd still more than likely still be alive today, albeit in a cell.

Victim blaming at its finest. A man is murdered by five point blank gunshots while being held down by two other men, and it's his fault because he didn't just do as he was told without question like a good little boy.

---

Victim blaming at its finest. A man is murdered by five point blank gunshots while being held down by two other men, and it's his fault because he didn't just do as he was told without question like a good little boy.

Victim blaming?

 

Was he a convicted felon with a history of violence?

 

Was he illegally carrying a firearm?

 

Was there a report that a man matching his description was threatening someone with that weapon he was carrying illegally?

 

Is there a video that definitively shows that he was NOT reaching for the gun in his right pocket?  For that matter, was there ANY video that showed he was not resisting?

 

Sorry, but you can certainly cling to the mantra that this is victim blaming.  The facts are what they are, so feel free to ignore them to continue to push your agenda.

 

Just like Ferguson, the Justice Department is investigating this, and they will get to the bottom of the incident.  If there's even a thread of possibility that this was driven by race, no doubt this politicized JD will pounce on that to bring the cops up on charges.  When/if they don't, I can pretty much predict how you'll react. 

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

If they didn't have control over the arm that was under the car and appeared to be the one reaching for a weapon, and he got a hand in the pocket and was able to open fire, would that have made it more acceptable for you? 

 

Seriously, had he gotten a hand on the gun, he could have very easily gotten a shot off at one of the officers trying to contain him.

 

This is going to be investigated by the Justice Department, and rightly so.  There will be a conclusion to this.  If they rule with the officers, will that end this debate?

 

Look at the positioning. You're really convinced he could easily gotten anything out of his pocket, let alone get a shot off?

 

Are we accepting Justice Department rulings without debate these days?

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Where is this person who called the police with the complaint?  Did he identify Sterling?

---

None of the videos I've seen show him subdued completely. They were wrestling with him, and in the best angle I've seen, his right arm was anything but subdued.


The non-violent offender you're referring to was a convicted felon in possession of a firearm. The police were responding to a call indicating someone matching the description of Sterling was brandishing that weapon, threatening someone in the parking lot outside of the store. When they arrived and approached him, he resisted them, including fighting through being tasered. When they wrestled him to the ground, he did attempt to do something with his right arm that appeared to be at a minimum, reaching for that pocket.



The number of shots fired is irrelevant. You don't know how many shots it would take to diminish the threat, and if you're the one pulling the trigger, your thought after every pull isn't "was that the one that ended this?" When a law enforcement officer draws and fires a weapon, they're not shooting to injure.


Had Sterling complied from the start, he'd still more than likely still be alive today, albeit in a cell.

Not at all trying to paint the guy as a saint. There's is also nothing to suggest the cops were aware of his criminal history, so it's not like we can say that factored into their actions. So that is irrelevant. There's also something Anchorman mentioned earlier about all homicides by Baton Rouge cops have been black people. The number of shots is relevant, unless you're somehow alluding if the cop emptied his clip that would be okay too. Let's not pretend all sense and training goes out the window when a cop pulls the trigger. You want Robinson drug tested on suspicion but your attitude toward this shooting is however many shots the cop felt he needed. I'm certainly not trying to convince you otherwise, that's a fool's errand. I was simply explaining the reaction from TJ. Not complying should not mean death sentence, or we need to change the laws to reflect it.

---

Victim blaming?


Was he a convicted felon with a history of violence?


Was he illegally carrying a firearm?


Was there a report that a man matching his description was threatening someone with that weapon he was carrying illegally?


Is there a video that definitively shows that he was NOT reaching for the gun in his right pocket? For that matter, was there ANY video that showed he was not resisting?


Sorry, but you can certainly cling to the mantra that this is victim blaming. The facts are what they are, so feel free to ignore them to continue to push your agenda.

In all honesty, in the few short videos that we've all seen, during at any point did you feel that the officers lives were in danger or were they in control of the situation? Even if he had reached in his pocket (which would require a contortionist move on his behalf and assuming he was able to do so successfully I would then say it was justified) there are witnesses who were present who say that wasn't the case at all.


They panicked. It's just that simple. Maybe they weren't trained very well from the start and we need to start pointing the fingers that way but it comes down to them panicking and reacting to the utmost extreme.

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

It's clear that the right to bear arms means one thing if you're white and another thing of you're black.

---

We should just jump to conclusion that all police are pigs based on a video that doesn't start until after the shooting took place.


God knows we don't want to try to get all of the facts before deciding it was a "pig" just abusing his power.


Based on what we have seen, and on the claims of the girlfriend, the cop just opened fire while the guy was reaching for his wallet. Perhaps that's the case. We'll see.

Those cops are pigs. Sorry if that triggers you.


Point out where anyone here has said all cops are pigs.


The only person here that likes to use blanket statements are people of your ilk.

---

It's clear that the right to bear arms means one thing if you're white and another thing of you're black.

I'm pretty sure you lose that right as a convicted felon...white or black or red or brown...

---

Have you seen my baseball?

I'm 99% sure the cops will not be charged with anything.  

---

In all honesty, in the few short videos that we've all seen, during at any point did you feel that the officers lives were in danger or were they in control of the situation? Even if he had reached in his pocket (which would require a contortionist move on his behalf and assuming he was able to do so successfully I would then say it was justified) there are witnesses who were present who say that wasn't the case at all.


They panicked. It's just that simple. Maybe they weren't trained very well from the start and we need to start pointing the fingers that way but it comes down to them panicking and reacting to the utmost extreme.

 

The video taken from practically point blank range facing the car showed they had his legs and one arm contained.  He was up under the bumper of the car, and his right shoulder and arm were absolutely not contained.  If the arm was not contained, the officers were certainly in danger with an armed perp who was already reportedly brandishing the weapon earlier.  Cops have to make split decisions.  If he was reaching into the pocket to get a hand on that gun, the sad fact is that it's probably going to be ruled a justified shooting.

 

Based on how he was under the car, there's almost no way any witness could be certain that he wasn't reaching for the gun.  Go watch that video facing the car that's taken from about 10 feet away.  It's as clear as day, and you still can't see what his arm is doing because it's underneath the car.  What we can see clear as day is his shoulder rolling frantically indicating his arm was reaching for something.  We may not be able to discern what that was, but he was clearly not complying or fully contained.

BTW, as a concealed carry permit holder who occasionally pocket carries, he wouldn't have needed to be a contortionist to get a hand on the gun and fire the weapon without ever taking it out of the pocket.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I'm pretty sure you lose that right as a convicted felon...white or black or red or brown...

 

I think he's referring to the more recent death.  Reports said he had a concealed permit.

---