I shall refrain from 'logical' forecasting/hindsight evaluations. I can tell you I don't feel one can just cross apply situations, expecting the outcome to be logically deduced.


My simple answer would be, we just can't tell, too many factors in place. Helpful, I know

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

The issue with this question is thinking we could have gotten Carr in the second. Remember we drafted 3rd in the first round and 7th in the second round. We may have taken Mack and not been able to get either. It's not as cut and dry as just swapping players.

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I'll take our 2014 draft class/undrafted rookies over any in the league.

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C'mon guys...this isn't even close. Outside of these boards it's split pretty 50/50 that the QBs are even...and heck I'd bet it's more like 60/40 towards Carr. Even if they are pretty even which is what I think, then Mack wtfdestroys Lee (substituting Arob for Lee doesn't work on many obvious levels). We're talking relatively close QBs one way or another, and then a top 3 defensive MVP caliber player vs so far a pretty obvious bust.


And if you do go farther as some have and added Fowler and Amari it's even more lopsided toward the Oakland group. If you had Carr on the Jags throwing the ball to Arob, Amari, and Hurns...and Mack coming off the edge with the rest of our existing defense. Holy crap that would make us a terrifying team and not just a playoff dark horse/hopeful whatever we are now.

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C'mon guys...this isn't even close. Outside of these boards it's split pretty 50/50 that the QBs are even...and heck I'd bet it's more like 60/40 towards Carr. Even if they are pretty even which is what I think, then Mack wtfdestroys Lee (substituting Arob for Lee doesn't work on many obvious levels). We're talking relatively close QBs one way or another, and then a top 3 defensive MVP caliber player vs so far a pretty obvious bust.


And if you do go farther as some have and added Fowler and Amari it's even more lopsided toward the Oakland group. If you had Carr on the Jags throwing the ball to Arob, Amari, and Hurns...and Mack coming off the edge with the rest of our existing defense. Holy crap that would make us a terrifying team and not just a playoff dark horse/hopeful whatever we are now.

According to whom? The NFL top 100, aka their peers, disagree wholeheartedly.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Right now I'd have to say no. Not because of the talent level; as I think getting Mack with Carr would be nice. However, our WRs and TEs and even O-lineman have already grown accustomed to Bortles and they have created a relationship that would be lost with Carr. I think we're good right now. No trading them.



GO JAGS!!

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Let's Get Em!!!! Go Jags!

I have to laugh at this topic. Carr was not even available when the Jaguars picked Lee.

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They went 7-9 in a division with the SB champs, KC and SD..... They played 8 games against playoff teams. Jags played 4 and 2 of those came against the unbeatable Texans.

 

You can't compare records. If we were in the AFC West, I doubt we win 5 games considering we lost to their worst team.

 


Agreed. Just saying how everyone says Carr wins more. Which he really doesn't by the numbers. Regardless of how much harder their division is. But your point does stand.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Agreed. Just saying how everyone says Carr wins more. Which he really doesn't by the numbers. Regardless of how much harder their division is. But your point does stand.

Technically, by the numbers, he does win more. It doesn't make him a better QB and I'll take Blake over him every day of the week.

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On the hypo basis that it were possible id take Carr and Mack. 

 

Carr imo wouldnt have cost us games like Bortles did. Less pick6s , lass self sacking, less fumbles and less bad decisions against better defenses. Bortles only had 3 more TD with better weapons and Carr was only 13 yards away from 4k. Carr is the smarter more consistent Qb though he does lack some of bortles athletic ability. Bortles was the direct reason we lost multiple games despite his higher number of yards and TDs. 

 

Bortles isnt lightyears ahead of Carr by any stretch as both showed great improvement over their rookie years. 

 

When you add in Lee vs Mack it gets insanely over matched. We'd still have a top 10 QB with what might be the best defensive player in the league. We'd have not only won but dominated the division. We had a perfect storm of facing depleted teams and backup qbs Mack would feast and Carr with our weapons (Hurns, Arob , Thomas ) vs weaker defenses (KC and Denver have great Ds vs Tenn,Indy lol) would have been a cake walk to winning the AFC South. 

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Dude Heroic. You got moxy son. Peeps have been tribunaled for even hinting that other QBs have certain better traits, not that they are better QBS than Bortles or preferred over Bortles.


Be very careful mate. Opinions like this gets you in the office ; )

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

Technically, by the numbers, he does win more. It doesn't make him a better QB and I'll take Blake over him every day of the week.

 


Guess I should have said "barely wins more"

 

But yes, would take Blake any day over him.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

It is what it is. Carr and Bortles are even with Bortles being the more flashy player. Id take smarts and consistency over flash and burns but thats me. Bortles gunslinger style will always have ups and downs. Just like guys like Cutler,Stafford,Favre,etc. It's exciting but how much does it really win? 

 

For all of Favres(who bortles has said he emulates) accolades he has 1 ring and was personally the reason for multiple playoff losses trying to force passes in GB,Minn and NY. Brady,Montana,Aikman thats what i want at QB. Forget the constant gaudy numbers mixed with [BLEEP] mistakes trying to do too much. Only Bradshaw with all his INT laden seasons breaks that trend. Brady in his whole career is yet to break 14 ints in a season. Montana only had one with 16 and no other with more then 13. After Aikman's first 2 seasons with 18 he never had more then 14. 

 

Im hoping Bortles follows that kind of trend and stops with the Gunslinger Flash stuff we think is so awesome. A bit radical but history doesnt favor gunslingers.

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Is this even a discussion? Bortles and Carr are pretty close. Mack is one of the best players in the league; Lee is not.

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It is what it is. Carr and Bortles are even with Bortles being the more flashy player. Id take smarts and consistency over flash and burns but thats me. Bortles gunslinger style will always have ups and downs. Just like guys like Cutler,Stafford,Favre,etc. It's exciting but how much does it really win? 

 

For all of Favres(who bortles has said he emulates) accolades he has 1 ring and was personally the reason for multiple playoff losses trying to force passes in GB,Minn and NY. Brady,Montana,Aikman thats what i want at QB. Forget the constant gaudy numbers mixed with [BAD WORD REMOVED] mistakes trying to do too much. Only Bradshaw with all his INT laden seasons breaks that trend. Brady in his whole career is yet to break 14 ints in a season. Montana only had one with 16 and no other with more then 13. After Aikman's first 2 seasons with 18 he never had more then 14. 

 

Im hoping Bortles follows that kind of trend and stops with the Gunslinger Flash stuff we think is so awesome. A bit radical but history doesnt favor gunslingers.

We'll just have to disagree here.  This is a passing league now, and the Tom Brady comparison, is the only one that matters seeing how the NFL changed the rules to protect the beloved QB.  With all of the hate I see with Bortles "gunslinger" mentality, I will take that due to the Defense he has had to work with.  Put Carr on this team with no line and no defense and let's see those numbers then, but we can't now can we.  Different teams with different personnel can not be compared stat wise especially if there stats are similar and one player clearly has the better overall team to help his stats on a consistent basis. 

 

Bortles has done more with less and it's not even close like some are comparing it to be.  We could say this about a lot of QBs though, like Rodgers outside of GB, or Brady outside of NE, or Peyton outside of Indy and Den with their D.  Each QB was good in there system but if taken off their respective teams and placed in a new system with new holes and a new scheme, would you still think they would be as dominant or as consistent, I actually think that would be highly unlikely but there's a chance. 

 

History doesn't favor gunslingers because the league was different back then.  That's why RBs have decreased in value because the league is more pass friendly now, thanks to good ol Tom.  If Blake had 4.4k yards and 35 TDs with no Oline and no D then what do you think those numbers would've looked like with a better D and better Oline?  You can't do that with Carr because his stats would've regressed due to his non "gunslinger" mentality and it would've been ugly but i'll let you guys stick with your opinions and comparisons since I guess it's the only thing to do before preseason and regular season.  

 

All in all Blake is the better QB and I'll take the QB that takes chances and produces when things are at their worst than a QB that looks good on a good team but doesn't have the traits that would help him sustain that level of play if put in a worse situation.  Let's see what Blake can do this year with a hopefully better Oline and what Carr will do with pretty much the same good O with a few pieces added here and there.  My money is on Blake to keep projecting awesomeness, while Carr will look better but not do to much more than he already has.

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

Mack made All Pro as a DE and LB. He's also arguably the 2nd best defensive player in all of football....


Fowler hasn't played a down. Fowler has a LONG way to go and that's an understatement.


I like Bortles over Carr. ARob over Cooper (although I like Cooper too) but the gap between Mack and Fowler seems to be very wide at this point.

I know Mack has been sensational, but I still believe Fowler will be very very good.  I'm going to wear my teal shades until Fowler proves to be Derrick Harvey until then I would like to believe he is equal or greater than Mack

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Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
2016 draft players I think will be good

• On the Fournette train, will be best back of his class 3/6/17
  
• Lattimore please,  Lockdowns on both sides would be nice
  
• Engram at TE and the MJD clone Samaje Perine
  

I have to laugh at this topic. Carr was not even available when the Jaguars picked Lee.

Understood, but in fairness, the question presented was would you trade...not would you rather go back and draft Mack and Carr vs. Bortles and Lee.

 

It is what it is. Carr and Bortles are even with Bortles being the more flashy player. Id take smarts and consistency over flash and burns but thats me. Bortles gunslinger style will always have ups and downs. Just like guys like Cutler,Stafford,Favre,etc. It's exciting but how much does it really win? 

 

For all of Favres(who bortles has said he emulates) accolades he has 1 ring and was personally the reason for multiple playoff losses trying to force passes in GB,Minn and NY. Brady,Montana,Aikman thats what i want at QB. Forget the constant gaudy numbers mixed with [BAD WORD REMOVED] mistakes trying to do too much. Only Bradshaw with all his INT laden seasons breaks that trend. Brady in his whole career is yet to break 14 ints in a season. Montana only had one with 16 and no other with more then 13. After Aikman's first 2 seasons with 18 he never had more then 14. 

 

Im hoping Bortles follows that kind of trend and stops with the Gunslinger Flash stuff we think is so awesome. A bit radical but history doesnt favor gunslingers.

Bradshaw breaks the trend, in part because the bulk of his career was played prior to the 1978 rules changes that saw the "one chuck rule" implemented, plus liberalized blocking rules allowing linemen to extend their arms in pass protection, to say nothing of the concussion preventing rules of today that eliminate many of the kind of hits receivers (and QBs) regularly took back in the 1970s.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Cheers for the input Heroic, Bullseye. We learn constantly.


Jagssince95, fair take mate. To me, it becomes a bit harder to fathom once too many superlatives creep in. He had no D and no Oline, etc, and hypothetically cross matching players. As in, if Carr was in Jville last year we would have done worse, he would regress due to lack of gunslinger mentality, etc. The opposite could well be the case. Perhaps we could have won more precisely due to his controlled style of play. Point is there are ways to offer dissent without sensationalism, as I just discussed in private with an ardent fan.


I personally don't think we have enough evidence thus far in their careers to make clear cut distinctions. I'd take our guy because he's ours (what? but as hard working and dedicated he is to his craft, I'd assume Bortles will be the first to tell you he needs to continue improving and play 'within the game' to get us close to relevant. A master isn't created in a day.

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Success is a journey, not a destination.  Go all out Mighty Jaguars.

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On the hypo basis that it were possible id take Carr and Mack.


Carr imo wouldnt have cost us games like Bortles did. Less pick6s , lass self sacking, less fumbles and less bad decisions against better defenses. Bortles only had 3 more TD with better weapons and Carr was only 13 yards away from 4k. Carr is the smarter more consistent Qb though he does lack some of bortles athletic ability. Bortles was the direct reason we lost multiple games despite his higher number of yards and TDs.


Bortles isnt lightyears ahead of Carr by any stretch as both showed great improvement over their rookie years.


When you add in Lee vs Mack it gets insanely over matched. We'd still have a top 10 QB with what might be the best defensive player in the league. We'd have not only won but dominated the division. We had a perfect storm of facing depleted teams and backup qbs Mack would feast and Carr with our weapons (Hurns, Arob , Thomas ) vs weaker defenses (KC and Denver have great Ds vs Tenn,Indy lol) would have been a cake walk to winning the AFC South.

Have you ever thought the olines have a little something to do with it? Carr would of got destroyed behind this line

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