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**Jags02** · 03-12-2017, 11:07 AM

Check out Webb's velocity as a probable 4th round prospect.

'02

JackCity · 03-12-2017, 12:27 PM

Quote:This stat is a poop stat for numerous reasons.

The variables just aren't considered in their diagnosis of players.

I'm not big on Watson but I don't think this stat should count against him.

Like knarnn said, what's the tape say? Watch the tape and if you think it matches up with this low score and would show in the NFL, then don't draft him.

Exactly. Watson's shown he can make every throw necessary to win in the NFL. He's been consistently one of the best at throwing deep in college too.

I'd at least like to see the whole process behind these scores to see if they are even credible to begin with.

VisitingCobra · 03-12-2017, 12:48 PM

"Ball velocity"? On what throws? This is written like QBs throw every ball at the same velocity every time.

If you anticipate a throw and throw it early the velocity shouldn't be as high...

JackCity · 03-12-2017, 01:02 PM

Quote:"Ball velocity"? On what throws? This is written like QBs throw every ball at the same velocity every time.

If you anticipate a throw and throw it early the velocity shouldn't be as high...

Bang on. If you watch Watson during the combine drills he has the ball on the money almost every time too.

JackCity · 03-12-2017, 01:04 PM

There's like 6 good QBs on that whole list who have velocity scores.

We have no data for most of the top QBs in the league over the past 10 years.

Completely inconclusive but nice for parts of draft twitter to slobber over for a while.

JackCity · 03-12-2017, 05:36 PM

Greg Gabriel (Bears scouting director for 9 years)

"Did a couple more games on Deshaun Watson. Absolutely no problem with his velocity. When he wants to rip it, he can. Can also throw w/touch"

Caldrac · 03-12-2017, 05:42 PM

I wonder what Favre, Elway and Marino would register during their primes with these types of measurements? Probably over 60. Marino I am willing to bet would probably post the all time high maybe. These are interesting statistics and I find these fascinating as hell. Especially at this position.

Velocity is crucial as a QB in the NFL. If you can't gun the football into tight windows you'll never make it. This honestly now kind of makes you wonder if having such a low velocity and zip on the ball was a direct result in a lot of his INT's during his career.

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Caldrac · 03-12-2017, 05:46 PM

Out of this year's QB prospects so far I really like Davis Webb in RD3 or Jerod Evans in RD4.

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

JagFanatic24 · 03-12-2017, 09:38 PM

Quote:Out of this year's QB prospects so far I really like Davis Webb in RD3 or Jerod Evans in RD4.

Lotta people sleeping on Webb thinking 3rd or 4th. He may sneak into the 1st or 2nd. I have him as a 3rd rounder but he could climb up boards on the eve of the draft.

JackCity · 03-14-2017, 06:25 PM

I don't agree with the velocity stuff or that guy Allbright at all but he posted today saying he went through 60 of Watsons throws frame by frame and measured how fast they went ( don't even know if thats possible to measure accurately). He got an average score of 53mph...which means some of those passes were over likely over 55mph...its a non issue. If you believe this kind of stuff.

Samjag904 · 03-15-2017, 03:28 AM

Quote:I wonder what Favre, Elway and Marino would register during their primes with these types of measurements? Probably over 60. Marino I am willing to bet would probably post the all time high maybe. These are interesting statistics and I find these fascinating as hell. Especially at this position.

Velocity is crucial as a QB in the NFL. If you can't gun the football into tight windows you'll never make it. This honestly now kind of makes you wonder if having such a low velocity and zip on the ball was a direct result in a lot of his INT's during his career.

I watched a video of every one his interceptions this year. Most of them are because he straight stares down where he is going with the ball or the DBs baited him into throwing it. He doesn't read even half the field, he just throws it wherever it is going to go so sometimes it looks like he just throws it straight to the other team. Other times, the accuracy seems weird, he is inconsistent.

Take a look: what do you think? Watch where he is looking, this guy is not nfl ready, not even close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGP_uJfqzL0

Calling Deshawn Watson a future bust since 3/19/17. If I eat crow, I will keep this in here and proclaim JackCity a genius.

The Real Marty · 03-15-2017, 07:24 AM

Quote:I watched a video of every one his interceptions this year. Most of them are because he straight stares down where he is going with the ball or the DBs baited him into throwing it. He doesn't read even half the field, he just throws it wherever it is going to go so sometimes it looks like he just throws it straight to the other team. Other times, the accuracy seems weird, he is inconsistent.

Take a look: what do you think? Watch where he is looking, this guy is not nfl ready, not even close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGP_uJfqzL0

On the other hand, there's this quote from Jonathan Allen:

"We crushed him. We tried to put him out. Incredible competitor. Best (opponent) I've ever faced."

Remember Blaine Gabbert? Watson is the opposite.

Look, I don't want to draft Watson. I want to give Blake another shot, and use that pick on another position. But I think sometimes, in our arguments about certain prospects, we become very polarized and biased.

So the guy threw 49 miles per hour at the Combine. Did anyone tell him to throw as hard as he can, so they can time it? NO. He was just doing passing drills, putting the ball in the right spot. So, I would take that "49 miles per hour" with a huge grain of salt.

**flsprtsgod** · 03-15-2017, 07:48 AM

Well, the track at the Combine is notoriously slow, so...

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Deacon · 03-15-2017, 10:04 AM

Take this as you will, but I am a big fan of Bill Walsh and I thought the following story applied to this discussion:

"...

My most lasting image of Walsh comes from a story that former NFL quarterback Phil Simms shared with me from one of Simms' pre-draft workouts at Morehead State before the 1979 draft. Walsh, beginning his first year as the 49ers' coach, was in search of a quarterback that he hoped would lead the franchise from the mire of a 2-14 finish in 1978. He thought Simms would be a good prospect.



Before Walsh's visit to Morehead, Simms had auditioned for about nine teams. Simms' forte was an exceptionally powerful arm, and each of the nine previous NFL visitors wanted to see how hard he could throw.



Not Walsh.



'I started working out, throwing hard as usual, and Bill said, 'Oh, that's way too hard. Throw a little softer. Throw with a little more rhythm," Simms recalled. 'So I took a little off of my passes, but Bill again said, 'Oh, it's way too hard. Softer.' Now I was thinking, 'Okay."



Walsh instructed Simms to "drop back really gracefully, to be "really light" on his feet, to make his passes "really pretty," to deliver "nice spirals," to throw with "beautiful rhythm." Simms had never received such coaching. He didn't even knew such a passing style existed.



'After about 10 minutes I finally got it. I finally got to a speed that he liked. For the next 30 minutes I threw just the way he wanted me to. My passes were at a nice pace, the perfect pace. They were easy for the receivers to catch. They were on time. I was throwing nothing but perfect spirals. As I was getting into it I was thinking, 'Hey, this is really cool. Man, this is great. This guy has been here fifteen minutes and I am like a machine.



'I had always been taught to throw it hard; just drop back and rip it. But when you throw the ball hard it gets away from you every now and then or at times the receivers drop the ball. In about 15 minutes to a half-hour, I learned about the rhythm of throwing and being a little better technically. The results were awesome. That was one of the more enjoyable days I've ever had in my life...
"

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

KYjaggy · 03-16-2017, 11:13 AM

Plenty of chatter about Watson showing lack of velocity again today. Would be weird if he truly is taking it easy, again, knowing that the combine raised concerns with his velocity.

Or maybe he doesn't trust his accuracy unless he is taking some of the zip off? I don't know, it's odd.

roycee · 03-16-2017, 11:24 AM

This velocity "issue" is a non issue. Seen Watson play in person. His arm is fine.

JackCity · 03-16-2017, 12:48 PM

Question: Why should Watson's supposed velocity issues at his pro day and combine outweigh the fact velocity wasn't an issue in college and he showed he could make all the NFL throws against quality opposition in the highest stakes.

Its kind of like Dalvin Cooks combine, sure he didn't do great in the explosion or agility drills but who the hell was catching him from behind in college? Nobody.

The Real Marty · 03-16-2017, 01:19 PM

Quote:Question: Why should Watson's supposed velocity issues at his pro day and combine outweigh the fact velocity wasn't an issue in college and he showed he could make all the NFL throws against quality opposition in the highest stakes.

Its kind of like Dalvin Cooks combine, sure he didn't do great in the explosion or agility drills but who the hell was catching him from behind in college? Nobody.

Because the windows he has to throw into in the NFL are small, very very small, and the DBs are fast and very smart.

JackCity · 03-16-2017, 01:21 PM

Quote:Because the windows he has to throw into in the NFL are small, very very small, and the DBs are fast and very smart.

Right and Watson has shown he can make all of those throws, against NFL DBs.

The velocity scores are bogus and mean nothing.

How many of these throws do you think Watson put everything he had into? Even with the deep balls and short outs he floated them

<a class="bbc_url" href='https://youtu.be/axg2XQyFe50'>https://youtu.be/axg2XQyFe50</a>

Kane · 03-16-2017, 02:23 PM

Quote:Exactly. Watson's shown he can make every throw necessary to win in the NFL.

I don't get this line of thinking when it comes to draft prospects.

How many NFL quality players did Watson actually play against?

Like NFL DBs for example....

Watson has yet to play in the NFL. So he has yet to show he can make any throw in the NFL.

People love hyping up QBs...

but more often than not these guys aren't anything special.

And this stat is just another knock on a kid who I think is talked about highly but come draft day his value will be less.

Much like Teddy Bridgewater.....