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TJBender · 11-22-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:Got it. No leadership. No winning.

Careful now. The last guy to talk about winning got AIDS.

copycat · 11-22-2015, 06:01 PM

Quote:The title of this thread gave me a mental image of President Obama on the tarmac or carrier flight deck, waving his arms trying to stop jets from taking off.

Now I can't get that image out of my head. lol

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired 1995 - 2020

At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.

copycat · 11-22-2015, 06:07 PM

Quote:Is that a link to an old story? or is that new? This was making big headlines back in the spring that our pilots "hands were tied behind their back".

This is the difficulty in fighting a war in modern day against a guerrilla element. Israeli's have been dealing with this for decades. When your enemy hides behind children and puts weapon caches in schools, civilian casualties will be an inevitability. And you'll have a difficult time winning the public relations battle.

Obama seems to be mouthing off at everyone "popping off" about his strategy. Which is ironic because two months ago he said there wasnt a strategy. It's been pretty apparent during his Presidency that he doesnt want to get involved in foreign affairs and only does so grudgingly. Almost seems like he wants to do as little as possible while doing just enough to make it appear like he is doing something. And if there is truly a strategy for ISIS it seems to be that we shouldnt put boots on the ground. And any air strikes should be avoid civilian casualties at all costs. Which is admirable. But not surprising there hasnt been a ton of progress either.

Here is the thing that every military man and woman knows: in order to win a war you can't worry about public opinion. Once you make the decision to go to war all bets are off. If the suits that put our military personnel in harms way understood this they would not be sending them all over the globe for police actions.

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired 1995 - 2020

At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.

The Drifter · 11-23-2015, 09:53 AM

White House Gave ISIS 45 Minute Warning Before Bombing Oil Tankers

The Obama White House is giving ISIS a 45 minute warning before bombing their oil tankers by dropping leaflets advising potential jihadists to flee before air strikes in Syria.



“Get out of your trucks now, and run away from them. Warning: air strikes are coming. Oil trucks will be destroyed. Get away from your oil trucks immediately. Do not risk your life,” the leaflet reads.



http://www.infowars.com/white-house-gave...l-tankers/

Instead of a sign that says "Do Not Disturb" I need one that says "Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution."

The Real Marty · 11-23-2015, 10:23 AM

Quote:White House Gave ISIS 45 Minute Warning Before Bombing Oil Tankers

The Obama White House is giving ISIS a 45 minute warning before bombing their oil tankers by dropping leaflets advising potential jihadists to flee before air strikes in Syria.

“Get out of your trucks now, and run away from them. Warning: air strikes are coming. Oil trucks will be destroyed. Get away from your oil trucks immediately. Do not risk your life,” the leaflet reads.

http://www.infowars.com/white-house-gave...l-tankers/

I don't think the idea was to warn ISIS.   I think the idea was to warn off the truck drivers, who are innocent civilians.

Get out of your trucks, get out of there, because we are going to destroy any trucks carrying ISIS oil from now on.

I think it's the right thing to do.

The Real Marty · 11-23-2015, 10:25 AM

Quote:Here is the thing that every military man and woman knows: in order to win a war you can't worry about public opinion. Once you make the decision to go to war all bets are off. If the suits that put our military personnel in harms way understood this they would not be sending them all over the globe for police actions.

That's how we won the Vietnam War, right? Not worrying about public opinion?

Jaguar Warrior · 11-23-2015, 11:39 AM

Quote:I don't think the idea was to warn ISIS.   I think the idea was to warn off the truck drivers, who are innocent civilians.

Get out of your trucks, get out of there, because we are going to destroy any trucks carrying ISIS oil from now on.

I think it's the right thing to do.

Are they innocent civilians? How do we know they are innocent? How do we know that they don't know they are delivering supplies to our enemies? How do we know that it isn't our enemies that are driving the trucks?

If they do know they are delivering supplies for the enemies, but not directly fighting for ISIS, are they still open targets? In war, millions of supply drivers have been killed. Why should this be any different?

The Real Marty · 11-23-2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:Are they innocent civilians? How do we know they are innocent? How do we know that they don't know they are delivering supplies to our enemies? How do we know that it isn't our enemies that are driving the trucks?

If they do know they are delivering supplies for the enemies, but not directly fighting for ISIS, are they still open targets? In war, millions of supply drivers have been killed. Why should this be any different?

Because killing innocent civilians is a sure way to lose this war. All that would do is create more enemies. And then we would never be able to kill enough of them. Winning this war requires having as many friends and allies on the ground over there that we can get.

Most of those drivers are probably just guys trying to make a living and feed their families. I don't see how we lose much by warning them to get the heck out of there.

**flsprtsgod** · 11-23-2015, 12:34 PM

Quote:That's how we won the Vietnam War, right? Not worrying about public opinion?

Quite the opposite, we worried about it and fought like we were and ended up losing.

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

**flsprtsgod** · 11-23-2015, 12:35 PM

Quote:Because killing innocent civilians is a sure way to lose this war. All that would do is create more enemies. And then we would never be able to kill enough of them. Winning this war requires having as many friends and allies on the ground over there that we can get.

Most of those drivers are probably just guys trying to make a living and feed their families. I don't see how we lose much by warning them to get the heck out of there.

Because winning a war is done by killing your enemy to the point that he quits. Leaving them alive doesn't do that.

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

TJBender · 11-23-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:White House Gave ISIS 45 Minute Warning Before Bombing Oil Tankers

The Obama White House is giving ISIS a 45 minute warning before bombing their oil tankers by dropping leaflets advising potential jihadists to flee before air strikes in Syria.

“Get out of your trucks now, and run away from them. Warning: air strikes are coming. Oil trucks will be destroyed. Get away from your oil trucks immediately. Do not risk your life,” the leaflet reads.

http://www.infowars.com/white-house-gave...l-tankers/

In fairness, we spent days informing Hiroshima and Nagasaki that they were going to be obliterated if they didn't evacuate.

That said, if one is going to drive supply trucks for ISIS, one must consider that being blown to pieces is a legitimate occupational hazard.

The Real Marty · 11-23-2015, 12:47 PM

Quote:Because winning a war is done by killing your enemy to the point that he quits. Leaving them alive doesn't do that.

Of course, an essential part of winning a war is killing your enemies. But, maybe they issued the warning because those truck drivers are not our enemies. And perhaps they figured that killing those truck drivers would only create more enemies.

**flsprtsgod** · 11-23-2015, 12:51 PM

Quote:Of course, an essential part of winning a war is killing your enemies. But, maybe they issued the warning because those truck drivers are not our enemies. And perhaps they figured that killing those truck drivers would only create more enemies.

If they believe that then I think they are misguided at best. Those who support the enemy are themselves the enemy.

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

TJBender · 11-23-2015, 12:58 PM

Quote:If they believe that then I think they are misguided at best. Those who support the enemy are themselves the enemy.

Do the truck drivers know they're driving for ISIS? Wouldn't be the first time that an undesirable entity created a "public face" entity to serve its own purposes. Maybe most people aren't dumb enough to drive supply trucks for ISIS, but they'll sign on the dotted line to drive for a legit-sounding oil company. Just throwing that out as a hypothetical. Maybe there is a valid reason to warn drivers.

Of course, if they know they're driving supply trucks for ISIS, then imo they're enemy combatants and fair game.

Dumptruck · 11-23-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:If they believe that then I think they are misguided at best. Those who support the enemy are themselves the enemy.

"Drive the truck or I hack your head off and those of your family" does not mean they are supporting the enemy willfully.

Dumptruck · 11-23-2015, 01:03 PM

Oh Christ I just realized we are discussing an article from Alex "WE ARE ALL GOING TO FEMA CAMPS" Jones' website. So who knows if this even happened.

**flsprtsgod** · 11-23-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:"Drive the truck or I hack your head off and those of your family" does not mean they are supporting the enemy willfully.

Even so it cannot be that we do not fight the enemy because he's conscripted. Losing to unwilling participants is still losing.

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Dumptruck · 11-23-2015, 01:13 PM

Quote:Even so it cannot be that we do not fight the enemy because he's conscripted. Losing to unwilling participants is still losing.

Oh I don't have a beef with the guy getting bombed but I wouldn't presume that all parties involved are there willingly.

EricC85 · 11-23-2015, 03:54 PM

Quote:Oh Christ I just realized we are discussing an article from Alex "WE ARE ALL GOING TO FEMA CAMPS" Jones' website. So who knows if this even happened.

He's been more accurate and ahead of the curve than 90% of the media. Shoot Alex was talking about the stingray audio devices back in the early 2000 long before it came out last year. Yes he goes off in conspiracys but after watching so many of them end up true or close to the truth k don't dismiss him so rasily

copycat · 11-23-2015, 05:40 PM

Quote:That's how we won the Vietnam War, right? Not worrying about public opinion?

Hopefully you are being sarcastic. I can seldom tell these days.

EDIT: After reading your other post I see you are not. Clearly you have no clue about the Vietnam War, how we lost it and why.

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired 1995 - 2020

At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.