What hyperbole? I used the dictionary.com definition of a word. It clearly describes the U.S. foreign policy, so how is that hyperbole? Can you apply the same standard to the U.S. that the U.S. applied to Iraq? We have WMDs too. Does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to exist? Should Iraqis kick your door in to keep you "safe"? Or would you tend to resent that?


You say more intervention is the last thing we need, then suggest another intervention to "clean up our mess"?

Yeah I have a problem with creating isis then telling Europe and the middle East kick rocks were going home. That said we don't need soilders on the ground occupying Iraq and syria. Bomb Isis into irrelevancy not this Micky mouse campaign we've been doing then go home, no more funding this regieme or arming these rebels just leave it alone.


I don't care where you got the definition from suggesting the united States is equal to terroism is hyperbole at best I'm trying to remain civil.


The reality is we've tried for the last 30ish years to establish democracy and western values on the middle East and it's a pointless campaign. I'm not for more intervention I am for cleaning up our mess.

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Yeah I have a problem with creating isis then telling Europe and the middle East kick rocks were going home.

 

I'm not for more intervention I am for cleaning up our mess.

 

You are only describing the next phase of an endless war.  We'll never know if walking away would be better than more intervention, because walking away will never happen.  I have family serving in Iraq today; we didn't leave.  We have giant bases with movie theaters and Burger Kings there. 

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You are only describing the next phase of an endless war.  We'll never know if walking away would be better than more intervention, because walking away will never happen.  I have family serving in Iraq today; we didn't leave.  We have giant bases with movie theaters and Burger Kings there. 

Burger King? Seriously? I thought they were part of ISIS's biological warfare campaign. I mean, how else do you explain a burger that turns your poo bright green?

 

On a serious note, ISIS has now made a very specific threat to turn the White House "blacker than our fire". At what point do we just go scorched earth against them? Why haven't we already? If killing an ISIS member will turn his brother, then go back and kill his brother. We're way past time to stop screwing around and wipe them off the face of the earth, whatever that takes.

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Radical Islam hates and is at war with anyone who isn't radical Islamic and of their particular sect. I used to believe that the meddling by the US is why they are at war with us. In the last few years I've realized that they have always been at war with us and that our meddling only moved us up to be a priority target behind probably only Israel. The war was inevitable and would have been at our doorsteps anyways. It was only a matter of when and not if.


Most of the African nations have done nothing to Islam and they are currently under siege. It really is as simple as convert or die.

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I encourage anyone who hasn't seen it to watch "Losing Iraq" on netflix for some added perspective

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Go Jags!
*To stay up for atleast 2 years 3/6/17
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Radical Islam hates and is at war with anyone who isn't radical Islamic and of their particular sect. I used to believe that the meddling by the US is why they are at war with us. In the last few years I've realized that they have always been at war with us and that our meddling only moved us up to be a priority target behind probably only Israel. The war was inevitable and would have been at our doorsteps anyways. It was only a matter of when and not if.


Most of the African nations have done nothing to Islam and they are currently under siege. It really is as simple as convert or die.

I don't think it's quite that simple. Yes, you've pretty well summarized radical Islam (as well as a lot of "radical" ideologies), but I think western actions going back to the Middle Ages, but primarily in the 20th century, have served to galvanize and create the specific brew of radical Islam we see today.

 

All the same, the fight never should have escaped the Middle East. It's on us for not killing Bin Laden when we had the chance, for meddling in Iraq, for coddling and arming Israel at the expense of the rest of the region, and for not recognizing ISIS for what it is early on and carpet bombing them back to a pre-Flinstones existence, among other things. Paris proves how much damage ISIS can do, and how little it takes for them to do it. They're dangerous, more dangerous than Al Qaeda ever was imo, and they need to be shot down, blown up, whatever it takes to put them out of our misery and send them on their way to those 72 40-year-old Star Trek fans that live in Allah's basement.

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I don't think it's quite that simple. Yes, you've pretty well summarized radical Islam (as well as a lot of "radical" ideologies), but I think western actions going back to the Middle Ages, but primarily in the 20th century, have served to galvanize and create the specific brew of radical Islam we see today.


All the same, the fight never should have escaped the Middle East. It's on us for not killing Bin Laden when we had the chance, for meddling in Iraq, for coddling and arming Israel at the expense of the rest of the region, and for not recognizing ISIS for what it is early on and carpet bombing them back to a pre-Flinstones existence, among other things. Paris proves how much damage ISIS can do, and how little it takes for them to do it. They're dangerous, more dangerous than Al Qaeda ever was imo, and they need to be shot down, blown up, whatever it takes to put them out of our misery and send them on their way to those 72 40-year-old Star Trek fans that live in Allah's basement.

It's certainly not western actions by the United States going back to the middle ages. I assume you refer mostly about the crusades, but the crusades were a response to Islamic aggression. They went pretty far overboard, and I hate to say it, but that was a sign of the times. Muslims perpetuated the very same attrocities in another time.


Israel had to be armed. You are talking about like 10 million Jews dead center (not literally) of over a billion Muslims who want nothing more than to see the Jews extinguished... This immediately following the holocaust. There wouldn't be an Israel today and Jews would be an endangered species if we didn't intervene.

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It's certainly not western actions by the United States going back to the middle ages. I assume you refer mostly about the crusades, but the crusades were a response to Islamic aggression. They went pretty far overboard, and I hate to say it, but that was a sign of the times. Muslims perpetuated the very same attrocities in another time.


Israel had to be armed. You are talking about like 10 million Jews dead center (not literally) of over a billion Muslims who want nothing more than to see the Jews extinguished... This immediately following the holocaust. There wouldn't be an Israel today and Jews would be an endangered species if we didn't intervene.

Yeah, I'm referring mostly to the Crusades. I think that their influence on the modern conflict is extremely, incredibly limited, but it does serve as historical context for the "west vs. Middle East" conflict that extends beyond religious lines over the span of centuries.

 

It seems like every time the Israel topic comes up, I find myself fighting a losing battle. Lately, it seems that harboring an unpopular opinion about Israel's effect on modern affairs makes me anti-semitic, so I'll just say that, imo, the modern Middle Eastern conflict dates back to the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire--which was primarily England's screw-up--with later events making the US into the poster child for unnecessary, one-sided intervention in the region.

 

*Edit: Maybe I should clarify Israel even further. My issue with Israel is that we chose a group of people and favored them over millions and millions of other people who were there first. I would hold that opinion regardless of the predominant faith of the people of Israel. I can't emphasize that enough: it's not about who we chose. It's that we chose someone.

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You are only describing the next phase of an endless war.  We'll never know if walking away would be better than more intervention, because walking away will never happen.  I have family serving in Iraq today; we didn't leave.  We have giant bases with movie theaters and Burger Kings there. 

 

War is inevitable, especially with an uncompromising enemy. I don't have a problem with using the greatest military force in the world to eliminate sworn enemies. I have  a problem with nation building and world policing. When the enemy attacks and makes significant threats it's within our right to defend our interest. Unlike Hussein or Assad or Qaddafi we have a legitimate threat and direct actions taken against us from ISIS. They now have the capability to reach us and it's a threat that can not be ignored. We don't need to be involved in trying to domesticate them, help them find a more moderate leader, bring them democracy, no wipe them off the face of the earth and go home. 

 

Like others have said, it's scorcher the earth time and it ends there. Until the next group of radicals gets out of control, but let's face it, if we don't arm them and train them they won't be much of a threat.

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Yeah, I'm referring mostly to the Crusades. I think that their influence on the modern conflict is extremely, incredibly limited, but it does serve as historical context for the "west vs. Middle East" conflict that extends beyond religious lines over the span of centuries.


It seems like every time the Israel topic comes up, I find myself fighting a losing battle. Lately, it seems that harboring an unpopular opinion about Israel's effect on modern affairs makes me anti-semitic, so I'll just say that, imo, the modern Middle Eastern conflict dates back to the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire--which was primarily England's screw-up--with later events making the US into the poster child for unnecessary, one-sided intervention in the region.


*Edit: Maybe I should clarify Israel even further. My issue with Israel is that we chose a group of people and favored them over millions and millions of other people who were there first. I would hold that opinion regardless of the predominant faith of the people of Israel. I can't emphasize that enough: it's not about who we chose. It's that we chose someone.

I don't find you anti-Semitic at all. You seem like a reasonable, rational, intelligent person. I think you are wrong about Israel, however. We aren't talking about just politics and picking winners here. We are talking about the eradication of the Jews if they lose. The Jews are outnumbered 100 to 1 and if they lose, the majority of what's left of the world's population of Jews will be massacred. The Jewish population worldwide hasn't even recovered to pre WWII levels yet. So yeah, we chose a winner.

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War is inevitable, especially with an uncompromising enemy. I don't have a problem with using the greatest military force in the world to eliminate sworn enemies. I have  a problem with nation building and world policing. When the enemy attacks and makes significant threats it's within our right to defend our interest. Unlike Hussein or Assad or Qaddafi we have a legitimate threat and direct actions taken against us from ISIS. They now have the capability to reach us and it's a threat that can not be ignored. We don't need to be involved in trying to domesticate them, help them find a more moderate leader, bring them democracy, no wipe them off the face of the earth and go home. 

 

Like others have said, it's scorcher the earth time and it ends there. Until the next group of radicals gets out of control, but let's face it, if we don't arm them and train them they won't be much of a threat.

France is handling it with a "massive" bombing campaign against the ISIS capital.  Wow, they have a capital?  Raqqa in eastern Syria.  Maybe somebody should have bombed it before this week?  Nah.  And we have now decided to bomb the ISIS 1000 tanker convoy that snakes across the desert transporting their oil.  We've just been watching it for months and didn't want to interrupt their main source of income because of some bogus concern for "civilian" truck drivers.  So far we haven't disturbed ISIS very much at all; the glossy November issue of Dabiq arrived right on time. 

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France is handling it with a "massive" bombing campaign against the ISIS capital. Wow, they have a capital? Raqqa in eastern Syria. Maybe somebody should have bombed it before this week? Nah. And we have now decided to bomb the ISIS 1000 tanker convoy that snakes across the desert transporting their oil. We've just been watching it for months and didn't want to interrupt their main source of income because of some bogus concern for "civilian" truck drivers. So far we haven't disturbed ISIS very much at all; the glossy November issue of Dabiq arrived right on time.

Strange times we live in when France is more active against terrorist than we are

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Yeah, I'm referring mostly to the Crusades. I think that their influence on the modern conflict is extremely, incredibly limited, but it does serve as historical context for the "west vs. Middle East" conflict that extends beyond religious lines over the span of centuries.

 

It seems like every time the Israel topic comes up, I find myself fighting a losing battle. Lately, it seems that harboring an unpopular opinion about Israel's effect on modern affairs makes me anti-semitic, so I'll just say that, imo, the modern Middle Eastern conflict dates back to the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire--which was primarily England's screw-up--with later events making the US into the poster child for unnecessary, one-sided intervention in the region.

 

*Edit: Maybe I should clarify Israel even further. My issue with Israel is that we chose a group of people and favored them over millions and millions of other people who were there first. I would hold that opinion regardless of the predominant faith of the people of Israel. I can't emphasize that enough: it's not about who we chose. It's that we chose someone.

 

Who chose anyone?  If so many Europeans hadnt been complicit in the extermination of millions of Jews, then those Jews who had escaped wouldnt have fled to Israel/Palestine/Ottoman/whatever you want to call it back then.  Even before Israel was a twinkle in anyone's eye, the Arabs were upset about the tens of thousands of Jews fleeing Europe and settling in the region.  Why did they care?  It's because they dont like Jews. So much so that Al-Husseini(spelling?) who was an arab leader in Palestine had made a deal with Hitler to come to Israel and exterminate all the Jews who had settled there.  Jerusalem was majority Jewish at the time.  There were Jewish settlements sprinkled around the area with more popping up as refugees were fleeing Europe.  Once the British decided to leave, there was a 2 state solution on the table.  If Arab Palestine had accepted then they would probably have their own state today.  But then obviously all the other middle eastern countries decided to join in to kill the Jews but lost... and here we are.  

 

If anything the Arab states should look to Israel as a country to emulate.  Succesful, rich, religious freedomn, personal freedom, democratic, etc....  But obviously that may not be very appealing as their values are different than ours.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Strange times indeed.  We want Assad out but Assad is fighting ISIS.  Are we backing ISIS or Assad?  Russia is fighting ISIS.  Are we backing Russia or ISIS?  Turkey is our ally in the region but Turkey is fighting the Kurds who are fighting ISIS.  Are we backing, Turkey, the Kurds or ISIS?

 

I need a scorecard.

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Strange times indeed. We want Assad out but Assad is fighting ISIS. Are we backing ISIS or Assad? Russia is fighting ISIS. Are we backing Russia or ISIS? Turkey is our ally in the region but Turkey is fighting the Kurds who are fighting ISIS. Are we backing, Turkey, the Kurds or ISIS?


I need a scorecard.

Don't need a score card.


Just a receipt - follow the money trail.

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Well it seems like in all these confrontations we are backing ISIS.  We certainly aren't backing Assad or the Russians, and I can't make any sense of the clusterfungus in Turkey.  Somehow we can't find ISIS on the few roads through the region.  Bing Maps can reveal the species of fescue in your yard but somehow the U.S. Military can't find a giant murderous army using a convoy of shiny new Toyota trucks. 

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Well it seems like in all these confrontations we are backing ISIS. We certainly aren't backing Assad or the Russians, and I can't make any sense of the clusterfungus in Turkey. Somehow we can't find ISIS on the few roads through the region. Bing Maps can reveal the species of fescue in your yard but somehow the U.S. Military can't find a giant murderous army using a convoy of shiny new Toyota trucks.

The Toyota Hilux the official truck of ISIS.

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It seems like every time the Israel topic comes up, I find myself fighting a losing battle. Lately, it seems that harboring an unpopular opinion about Israel's effect on modern affairs makes me anti-semitic,

 

lol.  So let me get this straight.  You call me a xenophobe and a racist anytime i disagree with you about refugees or immigration.  Now you go around sulking like a teenager because i called you out on your opinion about Israel.  I didn't imply that you are anti-semitic.  I don't do that.  I implied that your position was ridiculous, which it is.  I am sorry that your thoughts on foreign policy are based on your personal belief that the world is only 100 years old.  It's not my fault.  From what i understand you said that your college professor had something to do with it.  That actually makes a lot of sense given whats going on these days.  

 

I used to be a lefty too.  I eventually got tired of the guilt and shame of being wrong all the time.  I am here for you man, I can help.  don't fight it.  This is where the healing begins!  

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