So you don't have a police force? Can you defend yourself against a drone attack? Do you collect your own garbage? Your own water supply? Your own gas supply? Get your own internet infrastructure? Omg need other citizens to sustain you...

Actually, Eric might have accounted for all of these things when planning out his bunker's infrastructure.

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I wonder why more people aren't living it up in the paradise that is Somalia and leave the countries with governments for the pathetic needy people like myself

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So you don't have a police force? Can you defend yourself against a drone attack? Do you collect your own garbage? Your own water supply? Your own gas supply? Get your own internet infrastructure? Omg need other citizens to sustain you...

Just because we teach and strive to be self sufficient doesn't mean we're hermits. Of course we interact with others this website is evidence of that I spend plenty of time interacting with all kinds of people. However In the event of hardship be it personal, local, regional, nationally, or internationally it's important to know how and to have the skills/abity to become self sufficient. You don't want to learn how to grow veggies and fruits or butcher and process meat after the grocery store isn't around.


Yes we harvest rain water, purify our own private well, we compost most of our trash if need be I can burn non compost materials, electricity is my biggest weakness as of right now I'm as dependent as everyone else on the grid.

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No I think the food self sufficiency is great and good for the environment too. Food is a neccesity. Guns are about as necessary as surfing. It is a hobby but somewhat more dangerous.

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No I think the food self sufficiency is great and good for the environment too. Food is a neccesity. Guns are about as necessary as surfing. It is a hobby but somewhat more dangerous.

It's the same principle. I grow food so we can eat if there's no way to purchase food. I own firearms so there is protection if there is no protection avialable.


Perfect example a few weeks ago 3 wild pitbulls got into our chicken coop, killed 8 of my hens and 5 roosters. Then they went after my wife when she went to check on the chickens. She had to shoot one to keep it from attacking her, the second ran off and the third was trapped in the coop. she called animal control but they couldn't reach our property due to the rain washing out the road, so she had to shoot the third dog herself before it got out and attacked someone else.


Now what if instead of wild dogs it was someone passing through the 800 acres behind me? What if that person was to decide he wanted to rob and rape my wife? You think the police are going to make it down my washed out road 52 miles from the nearest city to save her?

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Sure but, how do you tell the good guys with guns from the bad guys with guns? 

if their shooting at you, their bad guys.

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No I think the food self sufficiency is great and good for the environment too. Food is a neccesity. Guns are about as necessary as surfing. It is a hobby but somewhat more dangerous.

If we lived in a utopia society where violence never took place then guns would certainly be less necessary. However, we don't live in that place. The United States has always been a violent place, even before it became a nation. Violent crime is a fact of life here. Here, bad people with bad intentions have weapons. Even if it's against the law, they can get weapons. If I don't also have weapons, then I'm unable to defend myself or those I love; I'm an older adult and not very big to begin with. I have the appearance of a helpless victim... the very sort of target that those very same 'bad people' are looking for. I wish the police could always be where they are needed almost instantly... but in a place like Jacksonville, it can take minutes for them to respond to a situation which culminates in seconds.

 

And it's no coincidence that the 'mass shootings' tend to take place at so called 'gun free zones'. These are easy, target rich environments in which the shooter(s) can move with impunity... until they encounter someone else who is armed. It sounds almost cliche to point it out, but the best... the only way to counter someone with a gun and evil intent is by a 'good guy' with a gun.

 

Statistically, the cities in this country which have the strictest gun control laws have also got the highest violent crime rates... rates which have grown higher with the establishment of those same gun control laws. The reason; law abiding people abide by the law and become disarmed. Criminals, who by definition don't abide by the law get or keep their guns and the law abiding citizens become helpless sheep for the slaughter. In those places where the law abiding citizens are encouraged to legally carry and posses fire arms, the violent crime rate actually drops. This takes place for the same reason that criminals target the 'gun free zones'. They are opportunist and are looking for easy targets. A location with a high percentage of legal gun carrying citizens is not an easy target.

 

I am a former police officer so I know somewhat of what I speak. The people who push for those extreme gun control laws do not have the best interest of the law abiding citizen at heart; they have their own special interest agenda. I can't think of a single world leader who favors 'gun control' who does not travel with an armed contingent surrounding them. They want guns around them but don't want you to have the same protection. 

Think about that...

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if their shooting at you, their bad guys.

 

So I and everyone else is walking around with a gun, so we can protect ourselves from crazy people, and we're all eyeing each other to try to figure out who's going to draw first and start shooting.   I better practice my quickdraw.   Of course, I had better hope none of the other guys thinks I'm going for my gun when I'm just going for my wallet. 

 

This'll be fun!   Like walking around in a video game!  

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If we lived in a utopia society where violence never took place then guns would certainly be less necessary. However, we don't live in that place. The United States has always been a violent place, even before it became a nation. Violent crime is a fact of life here. Here, bad people with bad intentions have weapons. Even if it's against the law, they can get weapons. If I don't also have weapons, then I'm unable to defend myself or those I love; I'm an older adult and not very big to begin with. I have the appearance of a helpless victim... the very sort of target that those very same 'bad people' are looking for. I wish the police could always be where they are needed almost instantly... but in a place like Jacksonville, it can take minutes for them to respond to a situation which culminates in seconds.

 

And it's no coincidence that the 'mass shootings' tend to take place at so called 'gun free zones'. These are easy, target rich environments in which the shooter(s) can move with impunity... until they encounter someone else who is armed. It sounds almost cliche to point it out, but the best... the only way to counter someone with a gun and evil intent is by a 'good guy' with a gun.

 

Statistically, the cities in this country which have the strictest gun control laws have also got the highest violent crime rates... rates which have grown higher with the establishment of those same gun control laws. The reason; law abiding people abide by the law and become disarmed. Criminals, who by definition don't abide by the law get or keep their guns and the law abiding citizens become helpless sheep for the slaughter. In those places where the law abiding citizens are encouraged to legally carry and posses fire arms, the violent crime rate actually drops. This takes place for the same reason that criminals target the 'gun free zones'. They are opportunist and are looking for easy targets. A location with a high percentage of legal gun carrying citizens is not an easy target.

 

I am a former police officer so I know somewhat of what I speak. The people who push for those extreme gun control laws do not have the best interest of the law abiding citizen at heart; they have their own special interest agenda. I can't think of a single world leader who favors 'gun control' who does not travel with an armed contingent surrounding them. They want guns around them but don't want you to have the same protection. 

Think about that...

 

Maybe they walk around with an armed contingent around them because there are so many people walking around with guns, and it's almost impossible to say which one is going to pull their gun and start shooting.  

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Actually, no, no you can't. The data on accidental deaths does not support your conclusions.

I just read that according analysis of FBI data (per the Washington Post) for every justifiable homicide there are 34 murders, 78 suicides and 2 accidental deaths. Either someone is lying or they are getting bad data.

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Only a chump boos the home team!

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Instead of a sign that says "Do Not Disturb" I need one that says "Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution."

A witty meme equating healthcare as more dangerous than guns.. it must be true.

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Only a chump boos the home team!

3 People got Ebola, and everyone was pretty worked up about that.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I just read that according analysis of FBI data (per the Washington Post) for every justifiable homicide there are 34 murders, 78 suicides and 2 accidental deaths. Either someone is lying or they are getting bad data.

 

Forgive me, but I'm unsure of your point here. Weren't we speaking about the defensive use of firearms compared to accidental deaths? Not all defensive uses end in a death, frequently they don't even result in a shot being fired. As someone pointed out above, most criminals aren't looking for hard targets. I've never had to fire my weapon, never had to remove it from concealed carry in public and only had to brandish it one time while on my own property. That instance isn't recorded anywhere as I'm sure many others aren't, so it really makes any kind of statistical analysis flawed.

 

But in the numbers you listed, I agree that the accidental deaths would go away if guns were removed, but do you believe there would be fewer murders or suicides or would they simply move to another means? I think the violent crimes stats in other countries show that people will still find a way to kill others or themselves even without a gun.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Actually, Eric might have accounted for all of these things when planning out his bunker's infrastructure.

That's why I got my place in line a long time ago. He's like the Boy Scout's version of an anarchist. 

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A witty meme equating healthcare as more dangerous than guns.. it must be true.

You are using the word witty waaaaaaaaay to loosely with that poster. 

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Forgive me, but I'm unsure of your point here. Weren't we speaking about the defensive use of firearms compared to accidental deaths? Not all defensive uses end in a death, frequently they don't even result in a shot being fired. As someone pointed out above, most criminals aren't looking for hard targets. I've never had to fire my weapon, never had to remove it from concealed carry in public and only had to brandish it one time while on my own property. That instance isn't recorded anywhere as I'm sure many others aren't, so it really makes any kind of statistical analysis flawed.

 

But in the numbers you listed, I agree that the accidental deaths would go away if guns were removed, but do you believe there would be fewer murders or suicides or would they simply move to another means? I think the violent crimes stats in other countries show that people will still find a way to kill others or themselves even without a gun.

Maybe? Who knows really since at best it's pure speculation. It's also very irrelevant since without an amendment (which is never going to pass muster) our constitution protects private gun owners. 

 

I think there are plenty of people that are truly pro guns that would support some form of mitigation such as stricter background checks or a myriad of other things. I think there are plenty of people that are anti gun that don't want to see guns taken away at all because that's not American. You are never going to stop all the violence and penalizing legal and responsible Americans is a poor way to attempt to solve any problem. What's annoying about the conversation that comes up every time a tragic shooting, mass or otherwise, takes place is the extreme sides pop out to scream and drown out anybody trying to be reasonable on either side. TAKE ALL THE GUNS or ARM EVERYONE is what it usually boils down to. 

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It's the same principle. I grow food so we can eat if there's no way to purchase food. I own firearms so there is protection if there is no protection avialable.

Perfect example a few weeks ago 3 wild pitbulls got into our chicken coop, killed 8 of my hens and 5 roosters. Then they went after my wife when she went to check on the chickens. She had to shoot one to keep it from attacking her, the second ran off and the third was trapped in the coop. she called animal control but they couldn't reach our property due to the rain washing out the road, so she had to shoot the third dog herself before it got out and attacked someone else.

Now what if instead of wild dogs it was someone passing through the 800 acres behind me? What if that person was to decide he wanted to rob and rape my wife? You think the police are going to make it down my washed out road 52 miles from the nearest city to save her?

What if somebody shoots me from behind on the street. I should wear full suit of armor and walk sideways with my back to the wall and my gun drawn.


Also what if I get bitten by a shark? Better take my shark cage to the beach.


A woman is most likely to get attacked by her partner. Not sure how having guns in the house will help. She could easily end up dead instead.

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What if somebody shoots me from behind on the street. I should wear full suit of armor and walk sideways with my back to the wall and my gun drawn.


Also what if I get bitten by a shark? Better take my shark cage to the beach.


A woman is most likely to get attacked by her partner. Not sure how having guns in the house will help. She could easily end up dead instead.

 

What if my aunt was born male?  She would then be my Uncle!

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

What if somebody shoots me from behind on the street. I should wear full suit of armor and walk sideways with my back to the wall and my gun drawn.


Also what if I get bitten by a shark? Better take my shark cage to the beach.


A woman is most likely to get attacked by her partner. Not sure how having guns in the house will help. She could easily end up dead instead.

You're special kinda dumb, ain't ya.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato