Providing a QB balance doesn't necessarily make him a game manager.  It helps to make him successful.

That's the words others have used not me. 

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Providing a QB balance doesn't necessarily make him a game manager.  It helps to make him successful.

 

I doubt Polian envisioned Peyton Manning to be a game manager when he drafted Edgerrin James the next year,

John Elway didn't win anything until he had a stud rushing attack behind him.

Brett Favre wasn't a game manager, either, but he didn't win anything until Dorsey Levens established himself as a legit rushing threat.

Big Ben can throw the ball all over the place, but that did not stop the Steelers from adding a guy like LeVeon Bell.

While he never won a Super Bowl, Phillip Rivers is hardly considered a game manager, and he had LaDanian Tomlinson behind him for much of his career.

Man, you can't say that because people on here don't like to read about the truth. Let me also add this Big Ben also had Jerome Bettis, Willie Parker as well. Joe Flacco had Jamal Lewis, Ray Rice. Even qb's like mariotta, carr, dak, ryan, and Kirk Cousins have a legit running game to help them as well.

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Man, you can't say that because people on here don't like to read about the truth. Let me also add this Big Ben also had Jerome Bettis, Willie Parker as well. Joe Flacco had Jamal Lewis, Ray Rice. Even qb's like mariotta, carr, dak, ryan, and Kirk Cousins have a legit running game to help them as well.

You just rattled off 9 "legit running games", but only 3 first rounders and more day 3/undrafted than 1st rounders. Proving the point, we don't need to unwisely use the #4 pick on an RB to have a legit run game. 

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Man, you can't say that because people on here don't like to read about the truth. Let me also add this Big Ben also had Jerome Bettis, Willie Parker as well. Joe Flacco had Jamal Lewis, Ray Rice. Even qb's like mariotta, carr, dak, ryan, and Kirk Cousins have a legit running game to help them as well.

The redskins ran for 4 more yards a game than we did.

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The redskins ran for 4 more yards a game than we did.

Take away Blake Bortles blushing and then we do the math.

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Take away Blake Bortles blushing and then we do the math.

Why would you take away his rushing yards? The Redskins had the 20th ranked rushing attack.

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Player development isn't extinct. We just haven't experienced it much here for a while.

 

I goes on all over the league. We just haven't been experiencing it much in about a decade.

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One of the best examples for me is the way we gave up on Reggie Nelson. 

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One of the best examples for me is the way we gave up on Reggie Nelson. 

 

First off, I agree with everything Bullseye said in his original post.


 

In the case of Reggie Nelson, he had a good rookie year and then decided to coast. It wasn't coaching, it was Nelson failing to accept the need to do the hard work necessary to get better. The trade was a wake up call for him, although he played very well in the last few (preseason) games before he was traded, so he had already decided to turn his career around. It appeared to me that Gene jumped the gun on that trade.


 

What's Gene Smith doing these days?

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I believe player development exists in teams with traditional systems. Like the Patriots,Green Bay, Seattle,Steelers..Teams like the Jags,Brown can't afford to constantly wait through losing seasons after losing season, hoping a player develops and becomes good.. We are seeing it every year rookies making a impact early, and becoming stars early in their careers..I just believe the league has become a what can you do for me now league..

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I'm again going to speak about Texans CB AJ Bouye. The guy comes in as an UFA.  In his first few years he occasionally came in, if someone was hurt...and he was instantly targeted by the offense (to good affect.)  And then after massive coaching and massive hard work over the years he's starting to be a great CB (unfortunately if your a Texan fan and it's his contract year) and is now is super desirable on the FA market.

 

If the Texans didn't have an already rock solid secondary, there's no doubt they would offer him a big contract.  Heck, I'm already debating cutting Jonathan Joseph to get enough money to resign him.

 

So if you're going to get a CB with 14+ million dollars, go get that guy.

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Bullseye you made yet another great post. Right on the money.


And notice after your eviscerated his rebuttal, if you can call it that, glock has no response. Because his original post was the case in point of your argument.

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One of the best examples for me is the way we gave up on Reggie Nelson. 

Great example.

 

While his regression from his rookie year was bad, his rebound post trade was bad for us, especially considering how we've struggled at FS since his last good year.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

First off, I agree with everything Bullseye said in his original post.


 

In the case of Reggie Nelson, he had a good rookie year and then decided to coast. It wasn't coaching, it was Nelson failing to accept the need to do the hard work necessary to get better. The trade was a wake up call for him, although he played very well in the last few (preseason) games before he was traded, so he had already decided to turn his career around. It appeared to me that Gene jumped the gun on that trade.


 

What's Gene Smith doing these days?

What bothers me is that we haven't had decent FS play since Nelson's rookie year.

 

Man we've really sucked at drafting as a franchise overall.

 

No stud pass rushing DE since Brackens (though Fowler and Ngakoue are pending, with Ngakoue showing more production right now). 

 

No stud LT since Boselli.

 

Went a decade after Jimmy Smith's retirement before getting another 1000 yard receiver.

 

Sigh...

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I'm again going to speak about Texans CB AJ Bouye. The guy comes in as an UFA.  In his first few years he occasionally came in, if someone was hurt...and he was instantly targeted by the offense (to good affect.)  And then after massive coaching and massive hard work over the years he's starting to be a great CB (unfortunately if your a Texan fan and it's his contract year) and is now is super desirable on the FA market.

 

If the Texans didn't have an already rock solid secondary, there's no doubt they would offer him a big contract.  Heck, I'm already debating cutting Jonathan Joseph to get enough money to resign him.

 

So if you're going to get a CB with 14+ million dollars, go get that guy.

Another good example.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Another good example.

 

Yeah.

 

As Predator mentioned, development is pretty commonplace league-wide, we have just had very little of it over the last several years in Jax. 

 

We have seen bits of it here:

 

Certainly Sullivan developed some receivers here and Wash has equipped some young linemen with solid tools. (Jones, Ngakoue)

 

The LB corps all seemed to respect Saleh quite highly and Telvin's play and progress in coverage last season showed the fruits of good coaching IMO. 

 

Hopefully the changes made in Marrone's new staff of position coaches will fuel a new direction for player development in Jacksonville. 

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Bullseye, I'm sorry to say this but you can't make sense to people on the Message Board who are still suffering from the losing seasons syndrome. I agree with everything you're saying and I hope this message resonate with everyone on here.

After I talked about how it has been so long since we have had studs at various positions, I came back to this post.

 

Even though the desire to finally get over a long period of losing- while strong- does not negate the realities of football, I can see where impatience would dominate a fan's mindset.

 

Your phrase "losing seasons syndrome" is well crafted.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Yeah.

 

As Predator mentioned, development is pretty commonplace league-wide, we have just had very little of it over the last several years in Jax. 

 

We have seen bits of it here:

 

Certainly Sullivan developed some receivers here and Wash has equipped some young linemen with solid tools. (Jones, Ngakoue)

 

The LB corps all seemed to respect Saleh quite highly and Telvin's play and progress in coverage last season showed the fruits of good coaching IMO. 

 

Hopefully the changes made in Marrone's new staff of position coaches will fuel a new direction for player development in Jacksonville. 

You know, I could see possibly not finding a QB or a LT or even a pass rusher in a long time.

 

But WR and FS are supposed to be a dime a dozen.

 

How could we, as a franchise, not draft and develop a competent player at those positions in so long?

 

Consider:  if you take away the free agent signings of Carnell Lake (good for us for about a year) Deon Grant, and the one good year Reggie Nelson had for us, we have always sucked at FS.  You can argue we have never drafted a competent FS in the history of our franchise.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I'm again going to speak about Texans CB AJ Bouye. 

Perfect example of draft and develop, but don't depend. No one is arguing with that. 

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Book reports of excuses. To say well, it is the coaches jobs to change everything.


Then you undermine all the college ones and high school ones.


To say, Give Bortles a better line and running game. And he will magically be a franchise player?


You in essence say, Big Ben, Manning, Brady, and a boat load of others. Should of stunk too. They did not.


And had less to work with then we currently do. And made it work.


 

Not sure how I missed this, but I have to address this point.

 

How in the world can you argue any of the guys listed above had less to work with than Bortles?!?

 

When Big Ben was a rookie in 2004, he had Jerome Bettis, Hines Ward, Alan Faneca, Marvel Smith and Jeff Hartings on offense, James Farrior and Joey Porter and Troy Polamalu on defense, and guys like Bill Cowher coaching.

 

The second Peyton Manning set foot in Indy, he had LT Tarik Glenn blocking for him (better than any OL we have had in the last 3 years), WR Marvin Harrison catching his passes (better than any WR we have now) and RB Marshall Faulk running the ball (better than any RB we have).  Since then, they added guys like Edgerrin James (better than any RB we had in the Bortles era), Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark (better than any TE we've had).

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!